The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Posts 26 to 36 of 36
  1. #26

    User Info Menu

    Big fan of Beck. Here he is with Imelda May doing "Tiger Rag."


  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

    User Info Menu

    Well:

    Facts:
    1. In regards to Ligon's book "Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony", it is about chords and harmony, and the creation of melodic lines by the jazz improviser.
    2. After all, that's what an improvised solo is - a melody - not accompaniment.
    3. It focuses on 3 very simple chord outlines which are used and have been used widely in jazz music. Then it shows a myriad number of ways to introduce variation to them, both (1) formulaic (enclosures, approach notes, chromatics, etc.) and (2) creative variations transcribed directly from master jazz soloists.
    4. Chapter 10 focuses more on the formula variations, and earlier chapters more on jazz artists' variations.
    5. And yes, the 3 outlines are guitar friendly enough, as are many of the variations. (but not all, of course)
    6. The book is not an armchair read - the person buying it is instructed to play their way through it.

    Opinion:
    Some big parts of the value of the book are;
    1. It teaches you just what the heck a chord outline is,
    2. It teaches you how to invent your own,
    3. Chapter 10 is guitar friendly (enough),
    4. It teaches you how they have been and how they can be varied and thus how to vary them yourself - to your own liking and capability, and the capability of your instrument.
    5. In that sense it is both a physical and cerebral study that covers all three facets of jazz improvisation development: Imitation, Assimilation, Innovation***.


    There are some caveats/limitations too of course:
    1. It is focused on II-V-I
    2. Many transcribed samples are from non-guitarists. Not every horn line or piano line are guitar friendly, (but many are). But let's not pretend for a second that jazz guitarists haven't spent and don't spend a considerable amount of time and effort aping horn players (like Bird for an obvious example).
    3. It's not a guitar book and doesn't provide fingerings or position markings etc.

    ***
    This approach is in stark contrast to Joe Elliots book about Jazz Guitar Soloing. Unless I missed a few key pages, that book skips right over Imitation while instructing the student to come up with their own "licks". It is written with the assumption that the student is a pop/rock/blues player, as the author himself was. That was/is the reality at G.I.T and M.I. of course so there's nothing wrong with that at all - except that it doesn't teach the jazz language - and so undermines its own title. That is a HUGE shortcoming. The good parts of that book are that it (1) teaches many common progressions, and (2) teaches the concept of voice led arpeggios.

  4. #28

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Big fan of Beck. Here he is with Imelda May doing "Tiger Rag."
    This was a tribute to Les Paul (and Mary Ford!) they captured the sound of her voice and his playing..Beck doing standards...

  5. #29

    User Info Menu

    I treat such excersises as something for practice room... arpeggio is arpeggio.. and melody is melody even if it contains arpeggio.

    Playing arps is one of the way to learn navigation over fretboord and it shows when you begin to play melodies.

  6. #30

    User Info Menu

    Yea, thanks Christian.... pretty simple.

    Just for reference... we are talking on a jazz guitar site and about playing Jazz.... Jazzstdnt... Melodic solos are just part of the picture. If one is not improvising while they're comping or accompanying .... one might be missing part or what playing jazz is. There's a big difference in the result. I mean the interaction part can be just as important as the solo.

    I know I generally skip much of the beginning... even intermediate level BS... but I though I said that up front..... "After One Gets Their Xhit together".....So personally, That can be part of why most hit walls, mental blocks... we don't know where we're going, what the end result is.

    Guide tone jazz is cool... but it's pretty vanilla (That's not a bad thing, I'm pretty vanilla.) still from the everything is tonal and embellishments. Improvising with harmony doesn't always need to be.... fixed harmony.

    The somewhat next step, ( not for the 10 step or even the 12 step programs), is to expand the organizations from what paraphrasing, improvising w/harmony and melodic development use as a Reference... expand the Harmonic reference organization, can be as simple as using Functional organization, using Modal expansions of harmonic references...(not modes), Modal tonality concepts...

    Again... I'm not talking about how to spell and embellish II V I's .... more Like how to imply II V I's using different chord patterns derived from functional subs, modal subs. Different approaches for deriving Blue Notes chord progressions and same with MM.
    It's not complicated.... one can just use expanded use of subs and chord patterns from those subs. You can and usually still do develop and embellish the changes and melodic improv.

    Ex. Take a II- V7 I.... there are Blue notes from each chord, there are blue notes from subs of those chords, there are blue notes from chord patterns from each of those three chords.

    Then you can apply any of the typical melodic organizational improv approaches, Creating relationships and the development of that relationship. Simple ex. D-7 G7 Cma7....

    X 5 3 5 6 X ....D-
    3 X 3 4 3 X ....G7
    X 3 2 4 5 X ....Cma
    --------------
    X 5 3 5 3 X ...D-
    3 X 3 4 4 X ...G7b13
    X 3 2 4 5 X ...Cma
    --------------
    X 7 8 7 8 X ...E-7b5 (function sub from Chord Pattern of D-)
    X X 5 6 6 8 ... A7alt or Eb9#11 ...also from Function sub C.P.)
    X X 5 6 6 5 ... same
    4 X 4 5 6 X ... Sub...or X 5 4 5 6 X Ab13 or D7#9
    X X 3 5 5 3 ... Fma9 function sub of D- or G7
    X X 3 4 5 4 ... G13b9, modal interchange chord from Har. Maj.
    7 7 7 7 8 7 ... Emin... function sub foCma7... used Modal voicing to back up MI use

    So this is just simple chords using subs and chord patterns. Melodic soloing would be the same. This example is many of the chords and patterns I use regularly.... How you use rhythmically... Rhythmically is generally based on Harmonic Rhythm.... not just basic chord beats. Rhythmic patterns, rhythmic grooves, create feels of repeat. Those patterns have implied Harmony, Functional harmonic patterns, that create a feel of motion with repeat.

    Simple example is just V I V I Dom Tonic Dom Tonic. anyway that rhythmic pattern has harmonic pattern also. So when you use expanded Subs.... The rhythmic usage becomes more important. When you mechanically organize musical organization, you create value systems of what you use.... eventually this becomes internal and you don't need to go through the actual mechanical organizational process. You develop Licks... work with larger sections of musical space, this is where understanding of Form helps.

    Getting to detailed, sorry.... anyway like I said most books deal with technical organization of basic starting points.... whether they're harmonic, melodic or both, by basic I mean they're traditional functional harmony based with embellishment. There can be more.

  7. #31

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Yea, thanks Christian.... pretty simple.

    Just for reference... we are talking on a jazz guitar site and about playing Jazz.... Jazzstdnt... Melodic solos are just part of the picture. If one is not improvising while they're comping or accompanying .... one might be missing part or what playing jazz is. There's a big difference in the result. I mean the interaction part can be just as important as the solo.

    I know I generally skip much of the beginning... even intermediate level BS... but I though I said that up front..... "After One Gets Their Xhit together".....So personally, That can be part of why most hit walls, mental blocks... we don't know where we're going, what the end result is.

    Guide tone jazz is cool... but it's pretty vanilla (That's not a bad thing, I'm pretty vanilla.) still from the everything is tonal and embellishments. Improvising with harmony doesn't always need to be.... fixed harmony.

    The somewhat next step, ( not for the 10 step or even the 12 step programs), is to expand the organizations from what paraphrasing, improvising w/harmony and melodic development use as a Reference... expand the Harmonic reference organization, can be as simple as using Functional organization, using Modal expansions of harmonic references...(not modes), Modal tonality concepts...

    Again... I'm not talking about how to spell and embellish II V I's .... more Like how to imply II V I's using different chord patterns derived from functional subs, modal subs. Different approaches for deriving Blue Notes chord progressions and same with MM.
    It's not complicated.... one can just use expanded use of subs and chord patterns from those subs. You can and usually still do develop and embellish the changes and melodic improv.

    Ex. Take a II- V7 I.... there are Blue notes from each chord, there are blue notes from subs of those chords, there are blue notes from chord patterns from each of those three chords.

    Then you can apply any of the typical melodic organizational improv approaches, Creating relationships and the development of that relationship. Simple ex. D-7 G7 Cma7....

    X 5 3 5 6 X ....D-
    3 X 3 4 3 X ....G7
    X 3 2 4 5 X ....Cma
    --------------
    X 5 3 5 3 X ...D-
    3 X 3 4 4 X ...G7b13
    X 3 2 4 5 X ...Cma
    --------------
    X 7 8 7 8 X ...E-7b5 (function sub from Chord Pattern of D-)
    X X 5 6 6 8 ... A7alt or Eb9#11 ...also from Function sub C.P.)
    X X 5 6 6 5 ... same
    4 X 4 5 6 X ... Sub...or X 5 4 5 6 X Ab13 or D7#9
    X X 3 5 5 3 ... Fma9 function sub of D- or G7
    X X 3 4 5 4 ... G13b9, modal interchange chord from Har. Maj.
    7 7 7 7 8 7 ... Emin... function sub foCma7... used Modal voicing to back up MI use

    So this is just simple chords using subs and chord patterns. Melodic soloing would be the same. This example is many of the chords and patterns I use regularly.... How you use rhythmically... Rhythmically is generally based on Harmonic Rhythm.... not just basic chord beats. Rhythmic patterns, rhythmic grooves, create feels of repeat. Those patterns have implied Harmony, Functional harmonic patterns, that create a feel of motion with repeat.

    Simple example is just V I V I Dom Tonic Dom Tonic. anyway that rhythmic pattern has harmonic pattern also. So when you use expanded Subs.... The rhythmic usage becomes more important. When you mechanically organize musical organization, you create value systems of what you use.... eventually this becomes internal and you don't need to go through the actual mechanical organizational process. You develop Licks... work with larger sections of musical space, this is where understanding of Form helps.

    Getting to detailed, sorry.... anyway like I said most books deal with technical organization of basic starting points.... whether they're harmonic, melodic or both, by basic I mean they're traditional functional harmony based with embellishment. There can be more.
    Thanks for your reply Reg. Yes I understand that everyone (in small group anyway) is improvising to one degree or another. Even the drummer and bassist never play it the same way twice, they're not supposed to. That even extends to the cheese-ball, under-talented singer, does it not?.

    And I do appreciate that elementary jazz guitar studies and topics can sometimes be too pedestrian and under-stimulating for your interest. I can relate, but in other fields. But this thread isn't about any of that of course.

    Your posts above regarding substitution remind me of some upcoming goals of mine - Berklee's own Garrison Fewell and his two Jazz Guitar Improvisation books - the first with a Melodic focus (and harmonic TBH), and the second with a Harmonic focus. Not for the meek. We could start a couple of new threads. You're a Berklee man, you could lead the way.

    Who's in?




    .

  8. #32

    User Info Menu

    Play melodies.

  9. #33

    User Info Menu

    yea...Jazzstdnt.... I'm an old Berklee grad and UCLA back in 70's. Don't really have time to put together and lead a new thread. I'll help.

    The old just play melodies as approach works, just takes a life time...and doesn't really cover.

    Babaluma... seems to be like many amateur guitarist in general. Don't have the time, the guidance, the interest to have an organized approach for learning to play.

    If one wants to just be able to play some jazz tunes, have fun etc... it's great. Yea learn some melodies, memorize some tunes and basic changes... If you gets your technical skills together.... be able to play. That's what's been going on for a while....

    If one puts the same amount of time into organized practice working on Jazz musical skills... you might have different results. Wood shedding is work, organized work. Learning tunes... melodies, changes etc... is just a small part of the process. There isn't that much gratification from the process up front. But when you go through the part of learning tunes... you might be learning jazz tunes as a jazz player. I'm saying a lot of BS... I don't generally say.... but were on a Jazz Guitar site... I don't say BS I haven't already gone through and can't cover. Generally the one liners or light approach is more of what gets printed.

    All good...

  10. #34

    User Info Menu

    I recently switched practicing a few types of snippets over the neck to "all I know" but in one comfy spot on the neck (1.5 octaves max). I'll change the spot on the neck every few days. Anyway, should practice the interconnection between everything known insted something like running with 3rds for 3 octaves... that'd never happen in real life. Well, Imma report back in 2 years if this works out

  11. #35

    User Info Menu

    Very standard approach. play a line over Fmaj 7.create a shape and some target notes that help define that shape. then take the same line and play it down a min 3rd. So now your playing the line with a relative minor reference. So next time I might change the filler or connecting notes between the Targets mybkexperience mcdvoice
    Last edited by rareskyfive; 03-13-2021 at 08:52 AM.

  12. #36

    User Info Menu

    The more I hear from Jeff Beck, the more I admire him. Thanks for posting this great tribute to Les Paul! vidmate 2014 instagram saver
    Last edited by tajirvid; 12-25-2021 at 06:03 AM.