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Hello, I'm fairly familiar with guitar (9 years). I've been mainly playing rock and blues, I'm comfortable with using minor/major/pentatonic/natural scales. However I've never played or listened to jazz and I would like to.
The only thing I know about jazz is that you play a different scale (arpeggio) for each chord, whereas in blues you play one scale over the whole chord progression.
Could you share useful tips to get started with jazz? Or recommend decent resources to start with.
Thanks.
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12-26-2018 03:56 PM
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Look at the ‘lessons’ link at the top of the page, there is loads of useful stuff there.
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and try to forget about it))))The only thing I know about jazz is that you play a different scale (arpeggio) for each chord, whereas in blues you play one scale over the whole chord progression.
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Run. Run now. Save yourself while there's still time!
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starts with listening...maybe google some sort of “greatest jazz albums” list to get started. good luck!
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1)
2) As grahambop mentioned, this site provides excellent learning materials, good for years of exploration. Enjoy!
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Alanguitar: Since you have a background in Blues I think a great starting point would be the book "Jazzin' the Blues" by John Ganapes and David Roos. It starts off very simple and gradually introduces you to things like:
Chord extensions
Altered chords
Secondary dominant chords
Tritone (aka b5) substitutions
Chord melody
ii-V-I and I-VI-ii-V chord progressions and how to fit them into a basic I IV V Blues progression.
Chromaticism
Approach notes and enclosures
Using arpeggios
Wes Montgomery-style octaves
There are a lot of resources out there, but this is the book that served as the gateway drug into Jazz for me.
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Wow, David Roos. There's a name I haven't thought about for many years. I knew him in the Twin Cities, MN from the Guitar Emporium - which unfortunately shut down if I'm not mistaken - and gigs around the Cities.
Originally Posted by Jack E Blue
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Hi Alan,
One book that a lot of us started out using in the age of the dinosaurs is Mickey Baker's How to Play Jazz and Hot Guitar, Volume 1. It doesn't require you to read music and introduces you to a good many of the chords and concepts you'll need to get started comping through songs. You'll also want to pick up a good fakebook such as the Chuck Sher New Real Book, Volume 1, or the Hal Leonard Real Book, which is an updated, corrected, legal version of the old Real Book put out in the 1970s. There are a ton of online resources as well, but IMHO it's nice to have books on a music stand when your're practicing. I've got a bunch more resources listed on my website at Clay Moore, Jazz Guitarist: Jazz Lines.
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As someone above mentioned, you may want to start by listening. You need to hear the stuff in your head before you try to play it. Besides guitarists, I like to transcribe trumpet players.
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You would think this one is a no-brainer, but after teaching for umpteen years I learned not to be surprised at anything. There was a long period when students wanted to learn "jazz" because - and I quote - "I want to get better technique," and they weren't actually listening to jazz at all. I guess this came about because people like Joe Satriani had studied with jazz teachers and the shredders wanted to learn their "secrets." Originally Posted by eh6794-2.0
All that said, I'm betting or at least hoping that's not the story with OP. What's often an issue for jazz newbies coming from a rock/blues background is those styles are idiomatically friendly for guitar, whereas jazz is largely not "guitar friendly" and necessitates some re-tooling to get started - hence the scales, modes, and arpeggios. Then there's the issue that rock/blues players usually don't read standard notation, which you almost automatically learn with most other instruments, and that can be an impediment also.
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Some introductory listening suggestions:
- Since you have blues background, you'll probably instantly connect with the music of Grant Green and Kenny Burrell.
- If you haven't listened to already, Kind of Blue is an essential jazz album.
- The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery
- Giant Steps (another classic but less accessible then any of the above perhaps to non-jazz ears)
- Jazz at Massey Hall - A great live recording from the fathers of Bebop: Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, Charles Mingus, and Max Roach
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I think we should encourage people from the Rock / Blues planet to come join us on Planet Jazz (yeah, it is a whole 'nother world), but seriously, why do you say you'd like to play Jazz if you've never listened to it? You have to listen to the point of addiction to be motivated enough to play it. You do realise how much harder to learn Jazz than what you probably already have learned? If not, allow me to offer my take: Originally Posted by alanguitar
It takes 2 years to learn to play Rock / Blues to the point where you might get the approval of your peers on planet Rock. Add a zero for Jazz...
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The foundation of jazz is blues. The blues that leads to learning jazz is not the kind where "you play one scale over the whole chord progression" (what blues have you been listening too that makes you think that?).
The "different scale or arpeggio for each chord" is not the conceptual input in jazz, but an output artifact of the style. The composing of solo lines in both jazz and blues comes from melody, harmony, and rhythm; that their structure reflects scales or arpeggios is because musical lines may always be decomposed into scales and arpeggios, but don't drive your playing of blues or jazz from the incidental style structure - drive it from the bigger picture level of melody, harmony, and rhythm... and phrasing, feel, articulation, integration, and attitude.
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I'll definitely check it out, thanks
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There are 2 main reasons why I want to play jazz.
1. I may not have listened to jazz a lot, but I have heard jazz. And I did like it. I think there is something to it.
2. Learning jazz is a great challenge music theory-wise. It means I'll have to learn music theory (which I'm not very good at) and become a better musician overall.
3. Oh wait there is one more. I believe in open-mindedness. I don't understand people who say they love music and just listen to 1 music genre completely ignoring everything outside it. Of course, it's a matter of tastes, but we can't deny that every music genre has something awesome in it, and denying it is pretty stupid to me. I think as a guitarist I should try everything, from Justin Bieber to B.B King to Jazz and death metal.
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Originally Posted by alanguitar
The best reason to play jazz is because you like it, so you are good on #1.
The three most significant and influential jazz guitarists, Charlie, D'jango, and Wes, showed that you do not have to know or learn music theory to play real jazz or become a better musician; so #2 is not strictly true. It is popular and teachable, and probably does no real harm if it helps understand things being practiced or figured out... but if you still need to think about it when performing, then I feel one has not internalized it sufficiently (compared to playing by ear in which everything is internalized). Even we who play exclusively by ear learn theory out of interest in the subject and as an aid in communicating with others about music.
It's good you know #3. It is my experience and observation that even the most quirky, goofy, lame, stupid songs hold secrets to be revealed with respect to technique, timing, phrasing, voicing, etc... as a well rounded musician one can find value and purpose in the situations where one prepares and performs these tunes. Part of that is then the deeper joy one experiences in contrast when playing the music styles and songs that one really loves for their own musical sake.
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If you haven’t listened to enough jazz that it’s in your blood, that’s probably the most important step.
When I used to have a long commute I filled the time by listening to every major jazz artist I could get my hands on. I didn’t do it chronologically, but started with a few artists I was already most familiar with, looked up who they were influenced by, who they worked with, and who they influenced, then listened to some of those people. For guitarists, it’s good to go all the way beck to Eddie Lange & Lonnie Johnson.
Another approach is to choose a jazz standard and listen to several versions by different artists from the earliest recording to today. Really listen—not just background music. Then listen to more recordings of other tunes by those artists. Then choose one of those tunes and listen to several versions, etc.
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A lot of rock players don't realize it but they are playing over the harmony the same way jazz players do. With blues and rock, it is easy to use one blues scale for the entire song, because you bend the strings to hit the note you want. Originally Posted by pauln
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im a late starter to jazz guitar..no theory under my belt...i do know the difference between a c scale and a 5 flat scale however ...i worked steadily through the band in a box jazz solos...got a grasp of the fingerboard....now taking on Parker and Wes and the rest...good luck with yours...
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Great! That's your slippery slope right there. Bwahaahahahaahahaaaa Originally Posted by alanguitar
I'm two minds about this point. It comes up a lot with young players esp. teenagers and early 20s. Hungry for knowledge and experiences. Great. That said often jazz to them is like a box to be ticked - like 'calculus' or something. To me it's my life's work, for better or for worse. It's not like I play in a covers band at weekends and know all the tunes & solos. (It's not that I don't want to - it's just that I don't have that skillset so much.)2. Learning jazz is a great challenge music theory-wise. It means I'll have to learn music theory (which I'm not very good at) and become a better musician overall.
So yeah, jazz. The form of music where 'dabbling' means doing 4 years at a college. And you come out saying 'I'm not really a jazz guitarist.'
Learning to play jazz will not make you a better rock guitarist. It might make you a rock guitarist with a certain flavour, but few of my favourite rock players have a jazz background. Prob just Andy Summers, and he's not very good at jazz guitar really. Session guys like Larry Carlton etc - SURE. But Carlton isn't playing heavy rock.
However, here's the thing - playing jazz will probably make you a better musician. You will have to do things that aren't guitar centric, so things like fretboard mapping, understanding the neck, reading music, understanding rhythms and so on, are important. And theory, of course.
I know that rock musicians get a little intimidated/turned on/fascinated/angry/dismissive/confused/excited etc at the way jazz musicians know their theory, but really its not our primary concern. Jazz musicians are often curious about musical ideas, but when it comes down to it, we have to use our earholes like all the other musicians.
I reckon being a listener is different from being a player. I don't only listen to jazz, but that is mostly the stuff I love playing - and I do love listening to it as well. If you love playing a form of music, it's good to follow it.3. Oh wait there is one more. I believe in open-mindedness. I don't understand people who say they love music and just listen to 1 music genre completely ignoring everything outside it. Of course, it's a matter of tastes, but we can't deny that every music genre has something awesome in it, and denying it is pretty stupid to me. I think as a guitarist I should try everything, from Justin Bieber to B.B King to Jazz and death metal.
But yeah, be curious about it. I love to find out about other kinds of music. And listen to as much different stuff as possible. "You might not like it but you will have heard it" is my motto.
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Id listen for a full year before even trying to play.
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welcome to the Brotherhood Of Breathe ..i meant Brotherhood Of Strings...
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Great advise. About 4 years ago my friend, a classical pianist, wanted to learn to play jazz. So I make him 4 CDs full of jazz piano players with a selection of songs from the blues, to bebop, to II-V-I type standards etc.. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I also purchased the Jamey Aebersold CD, Maiden Voyage - the piano version; this has the music for all the piano backing tracks. Since he can sight read really well, it didn't take him long to play the piano comping parts just like the record BUT he wasn't able to apply "this" to other songs when given just lead sheet music.
I.e. it didn't teach him anything as it relates to backing a soloist expect for those select songs 'as written'.
After playing with him about 2 times a month over these years he still can't play jazz or even I\IV\V blues very well. Still way to busy, and without the right 'feel' for jazz. I believe one gets the 'feel' more from listening to established player than from taking lessons.
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You pose a very difficult question.
The easiest answer is find a good teacher -- one who has a method for teaching "jazz". I put it in quotation marks because "jazz" encompasses a lot of different styles, although there is a common foundation.
I'd offer this.
Good jazz players can all do a couple of things:
1. they can think of a good improvised line and they can play it.
2. they play it with a great time feel.
3. a combo musician can fit into a combo, which requires a bunch of sub-skills, including good knowledge of songs, harmony, rhythmic-comping styles and, most important, good enough ears to recognize harmony. Good tone should be on the list.
I think every good player can do those things. Here are a few more that some, but not all, good players can do.
1. Read music.
2. Being able to play any song in any key without hesitation.
3. Know theory (most, but not all, players know some theory but many fine players don't know as much as is possible)
4. Have incredible chops.
5. Have a vast vocabulary of licks common to jazz.
How do you get to where you want to be?
Consider this. Wes Montgomery, one of the handful of greatest ever, started by learning Charlie Christian's solos note for note. He played gigs where he played the solos and layed out the rest of the time.
Jim Hall, another one of the greatest ever, had a formal collegiate musical education.
Andres Varady, who was on the cover of Guitar Player as a teenager (because he plays great) said in the interview that he knows absolutely nothing about theory.
Other modern players are Berklee graduates and are encyclopedic.
What to do??
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