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Originally Posted by ragman1
Warm innit ....
They'd sell tens of those !
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02-21-2018 08:44 AM
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Bud Powell used the WT scale pretty straight. Ellington too if memory serves.
It’s actually a pretty old fashioned sound. Maybe the reason why later players cooled on it.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I've found I like it best with interval jumps. You can do a lot of combos of M2, M3, and TT. They don't have to be straight augmented triads.
The point being is that I kind of avoided the WT scale for a long time, just because of the awkward feel of it. It was only David's comment that got me working on it again.
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This is what you need! This is what we all need!
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Okay, I've followed this thread with some interest, because it's a common question.
Often what the person is asking is, "How do I put a Jazz Overlay on my Rock playing, and learn it really quickly?" Those guys always leave frustrated.
On the other hand, if you really want to learn jazz, I'm going to agree with Christian and say it's a multi-year process. For me the specific things to work on would be really learning the fingerboard inside-out, ear-training, continuing to transcribe (your Grant Green was excellent) -- finding tunes you like, then recording the chords and playing melody over them. Try to get little embellishments into your playing, and try to understand (even if subliminally) the relationship between the chords and melody.
Another thing -- this thread points out the exact problem with this kind of communication -- you ask for a simpler path, and just get a lot of conflicting ideas.
One more thing -- if you gravitate towards fusion, maybe look into the John McLaughin DVDs -- "How I do it" or something like that.
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Originally Posted by JazzinNY
My own experience is that the phone didn't start ringing regularly until I gave up the idea of being a "jazz" player and I just started playing the stuff I could already hear in my mind. I don't think I sound like a "jazz" player and, yet, I get called for jazz gigs regularly. Of course, I can read, I know a lot of repertoire and I can play through changes -- but that may be true of rock players also.
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Originally Posted by JazzinNY
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This multi-year journey.. Never-ending progress.. Yeah, all true, kinda. But this viewpoint actually is the culprit, the frustration bug. It sure takes some years to get to a certain point when you start believing that your playing may actually be a truly pleasing experience for other people. The funny thing is, it probably happened a LOT earlier.. I mean, not the belief but the skill and "value". Anyway, once this happens, you're done. Everything else is a everlasting improvement but something already works - good! But it can be really tough to get to this point.
You know, "jazz too hard on guitar" - that's only true when comparing the playing with masters. Not so much when just having something ready enough that would make a regular person enjoy it.
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Originally Posted by Vladan
That's fine and all, but really learning jazz is a commitment. It's like Satanism. You can dabble, but if you really want the benefits, you gotta go all in.
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Originally Posted by Jamesrohr1
- Find people to play with. No matter how good or bad they or you are, the ONLY way to learn jazz is to do it with other people. Jazz is group improvisation. It's not guys playing by themselves on youtube. If you have people you play non-jazz with, cajole them into trying a little jazz.
- With the understanding that it's not easy to find people, for jamming along with tunes, don't use iRealPro; use backing tracks (there are tons on youtube). iRealPro is great as a fancy metronome, and it's helpful for transposing, but it's too stiff to really be able to play against. Most of the backing tracks you find on youtube come much closer to playing with real people (some are played live by real players; some are sequenced with varying degrees of realism). Also, play along with recordings, but do not try and transcribe solos. Just play (I assume this how you got started with rock; it works for jazz, too)
- Play a lot of blues
- Play a handful of tunes, a lot. Here are a few that are classic newbie learning vehicles:
Autumn Leaves
Blue Bossa
Satin Doll
- Set aside all the scales and theory you've been filling your head with for now. For now, these are the only scales that matter:
Major
Minor (including melodic minor)
Blues (basically, the same minor pentatonic boxes you already know, plus the 6th, the major 3rd, and the blue notes)
In addition to these, when you have a dom7 chord, altered 5ths and 9ths are available to you as "right" notes.
- Before you start playing a tune, break it down into sections, and for each section try to figure out the key of the moment, and whether the basic color is major, minor, or blues. Try to be aware of this once you start to improvise, but don't worry about clams. Instead, most of your focus should be on phrasing and rhythm and the overall shape of what you're playing. Pitches get way more attention than they should. BB King can play a great solo over any set of changes using pretty much just one pitch. Miles, too.
- Baby steps to improvisation:
-- Learn the melodies to the above tunes by heart.
-- Take your first tune (say, Blue Bossa) and play against a backing track
--- First chorus: play the melody straight
--- Second chorus: Play FEWER pitches than the melody. For example, in first two bars of Blue Bossa, play just the note G (one or more octaves), following the phrasing/rhythm of the melody; second 2 bars, do the same thing, with just F; do something similar with either the root or a chord tone of each of the measures in the rest of the tune.
--- Third chorus: Split the melody into 4-bar phrases. For the first 2 bars of each phrase, play the melody. For the second 2 bars, play (literally) anything but the melody. Ideally, have it be something that is consonant with the changes at that moment and that is rhythmically distinct from the melody at that point, but don't work to hard on getting it right. Just focus on 2 bars of melody, 2 bars of not melody.
--- Fourth chorus: 4 bar phrases again. This time, for the first 2 bars play eighth notes of (literally) any pitches; second 2 bars, play half notes (literally) any note.
--- Fifth chorus: Play chords, one voicing per measure. Hammer on/pull off one note on either the top or second-from-the-top note in each voicing, basically at random.
--- Sixth chorus: reprise the melody straight, and end.
--- Lather, rinse, repeat, changing up the sequence, repeating some, etc.
--- Over time build yourself up to playing full 4-bar sections in eighth notes.
--- Over time, introduce more note values - triplets, rests, offbeats, holding tones across bar lines, etc.,
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- Do not treat jazz as an advanced discipline that you're doing because it's a challenge that's good for you. Do it because you like the music and you feel an inner compulsion to try to do it yourself. If you do not have that inner compulsion, forget jazz and focus on music for which you do. There is absolutely no point in an adult torturing himself to learn an art form he doesn't actually like. Reserve such torture for your children so that they have a reason to resent you.
JohnLast edited by John A.; 02-22-2018 at 06:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by mr. Beaumont
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
What I commented on was NOT learning Jazz as a challenge, or whatever. I was talking about, to quote again... "How do I put a Jazz Overlay on my Rock playing, and learn it really quickly?"
There is absolutely no reason to learn Jazz in sense of becoming accomplished Jazz player to be able to do above.
I can not understand the denial of this obvious distinction, by JGB forum members. I mean, I can understand why they act that way, but I can not believe they honestly think the act can produce any good on any side.
If there is any frustration, I wonder where it comes from exactly and who is really frustrated.
Further, I will not ask if you know any rock, or HM player who have tried to learn how to put some Jazz overlay over rock solo before quitting in frustration. but do you know, personally, any rock, or HM player who did it after trying to learn Jazz as challenge?
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by Boston Joe
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by Boston Joe
John
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Originally Posted by John A.
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Originally Posted by Boston Joe
But we both say car, park, arm, etc. For which we should all be truly grateful. AH-men
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like p-ah-sta, viet n-ah-m
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Originally Posted by Boston Joe
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I say Vietnam with an ah. Pasta is the normal way. You are literally destroying my sense of reality.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Last edited by Jamesrohr1; 02-24-2018 at 01:49 PM.
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Hey that wasn't bad at all. Maybe you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
Any Levin Deluxe Owners Here?
Today, 09:26 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos