-
Hey everyone. A few months ago I joined a newly formed trad/hot jazz group here in the Dallas that's made up of some good musicians with varying levels of band experience. For the most part, this is a jazz band for newbies. Just what I've been looking for! The group is lead by a talented trumpet player who absolutely loves New Orleans jazz and early swing, but has never lead a band before. The songs he picks are GREAT but the approach to the music is driving me crazy! We rarely use lead sheets from a Real Book or learn anything by ear. Rather, we take full charts that he finds online and play them from top of page one to the bottom of the last page, almost verbatim. There's virtually no interaction among the musicians in the group if it isn't written down on paper. No cues, nods, waves or anything. This seriously does not feel like jamming... and when I think of this kind of jazz I think of JAMMING and having fun! Are we just reciting music rather than playing it?
I really love this music and have always wanted to be in a trad/hot jazz band. And let's face it, unless you live in NOLA, bands like these just don't grow on trees. So, who knows when, or if, I'd be able to find another opportunity like this? I've tried to suggest a different approach but get heavy resistance from the bandleader. So this just might be the way it is. Do I persist in trying to change things? Do I just accept it as it is and fall in line? Or do I simply cut my losses and hope to find another band that may never come?
Totally frustrated!
-
05-10-2017 11:33 AM
-
Well, that sure doesn't sound like jazz.
But, there's much to be gained from working in a stricter context too. Are you having any fun? (Whatcha gettin' out of livin'?)
-
Very interesting to see that you have found a group that plays that type of Jazz that you like. Its funny how you meet someone who says they play Jazz, then you find out they play a sub-genre you don't really like so you are back to square one.
Does your group play live or are you just assembling to jam with each other?
As far as your dilemma goes, I personally would hang around awhile and see what develops. Give these admitted "newbies" time to evolve and grow while you work on your own skills. Maybe it will reach the point where more interaction starts to occur.
Best of luck to you!
-
You could stick around a bit and see how it develops. If not, then you might think about starting your own group. In a musical situation I try to strive for these things:
1 to have fun
2 to learn something
Sometimes you're not able to work with people that share the same musical goals as you do. I think a good musical group works together to create a good outcome and that requires some compromises from everybody involved. But at the end of the day if you're not having fun, you might want to start thinking about creating your own thing and not having to wait for a opportunity to come to you
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Originally Posted by Toddep
What was Charlie Christian's line? "I only take my guitar out of it's case unless I'm going to have some fun, make some money, or learn something." (Not sure which order CC said 'em in, or if it matters
)
-
Wow.... I didn't know that! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
What was Charlie Christian's line? "I only take my guitar out of it's case unless I'm going to have some fun, make some money, or learn something." (Not sure which order CC said 'em in, or if it matters)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Its definitely fun at times... and maddening at others! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I do think I can still learn a lot from this group, even as frustrated as I often get. Perhaps I'm a bit too impatient.
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
What was Charlie Christian's line? "I only take my guitar out of it's case unless I'm going to have some fun, make some money, or learn something." (Not sure which order CC said 'em in, or if it matters)
I believe that quote was actually from Abe Lincoln but don't get shaken up too bad, the internet has proliferated misquotes faster than ever.
Oh, you two DFW guys, there's a jazz jam in Garland and last time there were a plethora of players who look retired and interested in gigging so if you don't find you like your current line up come (actually) jam and network.
-
Oh. I see they moved their meetup to Garland now. Believe it or not, that is a 1 hour, 45 minute drive from my home, and that's all-highway. Man this DFW area is huge! Originally Posted by Thecytochromec
Jazz Jam Sundays - northwest Garland -
DFW Jazz Combo Society (Dallas, TX)
| Meetup
-
That's likely what I'll do. This could still be a good learning experience. Maybe over time I'll meet other musicians in this style of jazz. I could see starting my own project somewhere down the line. Originally Posted by Toddep
-
Yes sir! Benbrook to Garland would be a helluva drive! Originally Posted by AlsoRan
-
I think I saw Scats in Ft. Worth has a jam Sundays. I haven't been but it's closer to Benbrook than Garland. Maybe worth checking out as well. Originally Posted by dallasblues
-
I play a lot of trad/hot jazz, basically specialize in that as far as jazz goes. What tunes do you play? Your approach, or rather the trumpet player's, seems totally wrong, it's not a big band music! Originally Posted by dallasblues
No charts, just memorize the tunes and jam! The tunes are super easy harmonically, so it's the rhythm part that needs to be perfected. To get people on the dance floor!
So my advice, look for something else, or try to have a serious talk with that guy, or steal the band from him if he doesn't listen haha! It just doesn't seem you are going in a right direction, don't waste precious time.
-
Sounds like jelly roll Morton - every note pre arranged haha.
Imo if the arrangements are good all is good. Actually when it comes to early jazz I'd always rather play a killing arrangement by jelly roll or Ellington or someone than jam standard Dixieland, but I understand not everyone wants that.
Also I'm not sure by the sounds of it that there is an arrangement?
As a guitarist in this music you probably won't get to improvise much anyway, your job will mostly be rhythm and the occasional solo (once a set maybe) in any horn led line up.Last edited by christianm77; 05-10-2017 at 02:32 PM.
-
This jam, called "The BlackDog Jazz Jam" has some great players. I attended a few shows and there did not seem to be any slouches up there. Definitely above my head, even when I was at my sharpest with chops and comping skills. But the jams were great, the crowd was sparse but enthusiastic, and they have a highly respected Jazz Guitarist that attends every one (the name "Peter Doeger" comes to mind). Originally Posted by Thecytochromec
-
The best DFW Jazz Jam environment, in my opinion, is Sandaga 813 off Exposition in on the outskirts of Downtown Dallas. I am never disappointed by the number of artists who come up to jam as well as the house band. (There are always pretty girls in the audience, too
)
I have gone several times and my buddy, who knows a lot of local Jazz artists, says the place is a popular hangout for local musicians. They also serve Barbeque and have a DJ outside of the building.
It attracts all races and age groups and is what I would call a small-medium venue, with a long bar and tables inside. You get a lot of "real" Jazz there.
-
Do you know when open jams are? I didn't see on their site. Thans for the tips Ran Originally Posted by AlsoRan
The best DFW Jazz Jam environment, in my opinion, is Sandaga 813 off Exposition in on the outskirts of Downtown Dallas. I am never disappointed by the number of artists who come up to jam as well as the house band. (There are always pretty girls in the audience, too)
I have gone several times and my buddy, who knows a lot of local Jazz artists, says the place is a popular hangout for local musicians. They also serve Barbeque and have a DJ outside of the building.
It attracts all races and age groups and is what I would call a small-medium venue, with a long bar and tables inside. You get a lot of "real" Jazz there.
-
Don't quit. Start a side project with just the rhythm section.
-
I play basically only swing and traditional jazz.
Well, there are some bands that plays this style only with arrangements, sometimes written and sometimes not, but most of the bands play it improvising and trying to create something new each time that play it.
I went to a Jazz Camp in New Orleans in 2014/2015 and some of the tunes, 2 or 3 from 12/14, were arrangements.
-
You kinda need a coupla horns too. Otherwise it's Gypsy jazz Originally Posted by Stevebol
-
Lol. It could be I suppose. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
You kinda need a coupla horns too. Otherwise it's Gypsy jazz
Get another guitar player and lose the drummer?
Start two side projects.
-
Not to hijack your thread but here a couple of Youtube clips of Sandaga 813 on the Tuesday Jam night.
That's all.
-
This is what every city is in desperate need of. Everything jazz-related needs to be at the club. NOLA, bop, swing, smooth, R&B, DJs, house, etc... Originally Posted by AlsoRan
There are 7 nights in a week.
This can't be done in dense urban areas. Clubs should be on the fringe areas.
You posted a vid of some new punk rock thing happening. Texas of all places is doing something right.
-
Here are two videos from the NOLA Trad Jazz Camp
Arrangement
"Non-Arrangement"
-
Damn straight! I've heard of this place but haven't been there yet. After seeing these videos I definitely need to get out there! Originally Posted by AlsoRan
Reply With Quote
Tour of Gibson Custom Shop
Today, 06:04 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos