How did you learn all the note names on the fretboard?

[edspyhill01]

I'm curious as to the many ways guitarists learned the location of all the note names on the fretboard. I never did learn all the note names and therefore cannot quickly find intervals. I'm talking about the most basic and fundamental knowledge - just the name of every note on every string/fret.

I'm going to restart this task using the old school method of learning the locations of each note of the chromatic scale, using the cycle of fifths, one at a time. I may have to use a layered approach of imprinting this knowledge in my memory.

I'm interested in how others learned all the note names. I would appreciate your comments.

Ed

[Jonah]

I'm curious as to the many ways guitarists learned the location of all the note names on the fretboard. I never did learn all the note names and therefore cannot quickly find intervals. I'm talking about the most basic and fundamental knowledge - just the name of every note on every string/fret.

I'm going to restart this task using the old school method of learning the locations of each note of the chromatic scale, using the cycle of fifths, one at a time. I may have to use a layered approach of imprinting this knowledge in my memory.

I'm interested in how others learned all the note names. I would appreciate your comments.

I played classical guiatr since about 8 years old quite intensively... so it just happend eventually.
(But the fact that I know where the notes are does not always mean I can play anything anywhere...
I know immidiately every note on piano? But I am a lousy pianist)))))


The best way is practice in some realtion system and sight-reading...

I mean it is difficult to learn the fretboard abstractly...

For basic stuff I loke approach that Reg offered on this forum:
Playing with stretches in positions in G major from 6th string - first you play every chord of the scale harmonised going up the fretboard... then every scale.. then every arp in triads, 7ths, 13ths (all triads), triad through 2nd.
(When you feel comfortable with that you move on to expand it... changeing key, using ither patterns or whatever).


What I often advise when asked as a bit more advanced stuff:

- playing chords in cycles (like I-VI - II - V, or ii-v-i etc) in certain voicings with good voicleading...
and then stop on any chord and play the relative scale from any note of this chord...
For example you play Abmaj7 - Fm7 - Bbm7 - Eb7 on 2,3,4,5 strings (first chord on XI fret), so you move voices down gradually to get the closest voicings, then after Eb7 you move voices on down to another Abmaj7 voicing et.
But any moment you stop and play a scale... like on Eb7 you stop on Bb and play the Abmajor scale from this not (or Eb mixolydian, or any other scale you may find related in the context - depends on your knowledge and taste)
In this case you ignore familiar scale patterns just find the next note you need around with minimum hand movement

this way you break chord-shape and stop seeing it as just a visual shape... but as a set of notes (with other notes in between)

- the same thing vice versa... you play scale... and then stop and play possible related chord from any note..
(for example you play G major... and then stop at A chord and play A-7 chord in closest possible voicing around)
This also breaks scale patterns

- and sight reading of course...

But in general it is just time and time...

[edh]

"But in general it is just time and time..."

Yup. That's all it is.

[Groyniad]

i only know the bass notes really

numbers and shapes for me

[Jonah]

i only know the bass notes really

numbers and shapes for me

Numbers are ok too if you can freely use them relatively...

Like 3rd of F is 5th of D and root of A and #5 of Db, #4th (#11th) of Eb etc. (obviously continuing this list you will come to the point that you know all the note names))))

[vintagelove]

In the beginning through numbers and shapes, then piano and theory (essential for me to understand music), then classical guitar (reading really).


With regard to playing them (mapping out/connecting the fretboard), Major Scale 7 position, 3 note per string system.

[Jonah]

The more I am in music (not only jazz) - the more I hear chords as a result of voice leading... I mean I hear vertical harmony and integral character of harmony, its function if it's functional... but now I in a great deal hear it also as a momentary shot of ever-moving voiceleading

Probably it's connected with my interest in early music... you can really hear how vertical harmony in a litteral sense appeared from developing melodic voices (voices too in litteral sense - vocal voices)... searching for new solutions

(all the 7th chords in classics are derived from 'improvement' of melodic voice-leading and later gained their functional independence; as well as 6th chord in jazz)

I mention it hear only because - it makes you see every chord in its ambivalence - both as function, integral sound, colour and a stock of ever-moving voices... motion and stillness at the same time
And this also effects how you see it on the fretborad...




PS
of course in the musical system where it's applicable

[jazznylon]

Single string improvising, then two adjacent strings.. non adjacent also.. 3,4,5,6 every possible string combinations etc. I wrote a list so I wouldn't lose track of where I was last practicing on the fretboard. for me it just took up a whole page and the back page too. But that was just the beginning.

I knew the fretboard somewhat well at this point, but not well enough. I still couldn't learn all the basic three note closed voicing shapes (triads). I felt really bad about myself because I couldn't really see myself deeply learning all these triad shape inversions. there are overlaps also between major and minor chords within different string sets giving the same shape so that became confusing for me. And I practiced a lot.. for the sake of clarity if my calculations are right thats about 30 chords (counting overlaps) i have to learn. And thats just closed triads!

So I said screw it and switched my tuning to all major thirds just to see what will happen. Now I only have to learn 10 closed triad shapes (see the math?). For me switching to this tuning is not a big deal in a negative sense because up until then for the most part i have been playing horizontally on the fretboard. I could imagine for the people who played mainly vertically (in positions) would probably have a rougher time transitioning to this tuning.. but i don't really know.

So in this sense i am really fortunate and grateful for this change. I already sound better playing in this tuning in a few months than in standard tuning for years. A few resources I recently find helpful for aiding fretboard knowledge.. maybe you'll find it useful:

1) Fretboard Learn (its an app) - in case when you are not playing guitar. Turn off the sound though

2) Random.org list website - you can google it. I find this very helpful

[gunksman]

I've made great strides last year using an app called Guitaratsight- no affiliation- in conjunction with a focus on sight reading. I still use the app to test myself on occasion and when I notice a weakness on a particular area.

[goldenwave77]

jazzynylon's post has a lot of good points.

Basically, "multi-sensory" learning approaches---will help you learn something better. So--- (1) think....every single string contains one pitch location---(two for open strings) from open to 12th, (2) Tactile and sight---find the location and play it, repeat the note name...(3) aural sense---play the pitch and sing it, then sing it and play it...(4) memory---close your eyes and locate it with your finger, and repeat the above steps, and (5)---repeat above for "above the 12th fret".

Howard Roberts said he had a dream where he was "watching" Barney Kessel play in a recording studio control booth, but he couldn't "see the fingerboard" (in his dream)..but he could "hear" the music and knew where to play it, in his mind, on his guitar that he was "holding". This is multi-sensory involvement...he knew he was on the right track after this episode.

Conversely, "habitual" behaviors are ones where, literally, we don't have to "think" about the behavior. (Learned this from our HS bio teacher who had a Ph. D. in ethology (animal behavior)). So good habits can be beneficial, as we don't need to think, BUT they can prevent us from grappling with, and mastering, new information/concepts.

A lot of not helpful guitar "practicing" involves repeating stuff we already know cold...we feel good that we can do it, but our minds are on auto-pilot---not engaged...Did you learn a new tune?..so now transpose it and play it....play it in different locations...with different fingering(s). (Some purely physical maintenance of chops is needed: This is a whole other vast topic/debate.) The new task/information/concept needs to be "non-routine" but "not impossible", and this allows "constructive learning involvement".

I always play with a guitar strap...on all my guitars. I can "put them on" and know where the instrument and neck sits....so I can just close my eyes and play.

Finally, it is helpful, to me at least, to learn something completely and well....rather than incompletely and poorly. (The downside is ....this takes a lot of time.)

PS: And yes...writing things out, at least initially is very beneficial. So here, maybe I would write out quickly, say triads, then go through the above process. By writing it out initially, we force our minds "to engage"---the polar opposite of this is "knowing" (kinda sorta, in a half-assed way) stuff written in a book, printed on a screen, etc....at an extreme, absurd level we can pick up a book, wave it around or flip through it quickly, and then say "we know it". Bach, re-wrote by hand, scores that already existed, to sharpen his skills and understanding...so think about that one.

[Dave70]

Focusing on the natural notes and drawing my own diagrams multiple times helped me a lot.

[MarkRhodes]

A Carol Kaye exercise helped me a lot.
You play triads in a cycle (or 1235) starting at G on the low E string, 3rd fret.
Then you play from C on the A string, 3rd fret.
Then you play from F on the D string, 3rd fret.
Then you play from Bb on and G string, 3rd fret.
Then you play from Eb on the B string, fourth fret.
Then you play from Ab on the low E string, fourth fret.
Then you play from Db on the A string, fourth fret.
And so on.
Keep doing this until you get up around the 12th fret. (Or further if your guitar permits.)

SAY THE NAMES OF THE ROOTS OUT LOUD.
You're not only learning the names of the notes, and triads, you're learning the different ways the cycle can move on the guitar. (You can pick any two strings and how far you can cycle up or down the neck that way.)


I found this interesting. On guitars and music notation
Why Guitarists Can't Read Music

[mr. beaumont]

Octave shapes are what made it click for me.

[bako]

Some thoughts:

Most Basic

Off instrument, learn to spell the chromatic scale in both flats and sharps inside out.
Know all of the enharmonic equivalents.
This combined with knowing the open string notes, provides a primitive tool to find any note.

Unisons and Octaves

The guitar mirrors the same events at the octave and unison all over the place in an organized fashion.
Getting a handle on this system is huge. Every thing you learn then is instantly known in multiple locations.

Since there are 12 distinct pitches, notes separated by 12 frets on the same string are the same note an octave apart.

The guitar is mostly tuned in 4ths which on a single string is a distance of 5 frets.
This means that the 5th fret of the low E string yields a unison of the open A string.
The same relationship continues as you progress up each string while maintaining the 5 fret distance.
6th fret-1st fret is Bb/A# --- 7th fret-2nd fret is B/Cb etc.
This relationship is true for adjacent string pairs E/A, A/D, D/G, B/E
G/B is tuned in a ma3rd, making the distance for a unison 4 frets.

On 4th tuned adjacent string pairs, an octave is played 7 frets higher on the upper string.
Low E open - 7th fret on the A string, E an octave higher
For G/B the distance becomes 8 frets.

Skipping one string E/D, A/G are tuned in a m7th. An octave is found 2 frets higher on the upper string.
D/B, G/E are tuned in a ma6th. An octave is found 3 frets higher on the upper string.

Skipping two strings E/G is a m10th. An octave is found 3 frets lower on the upper string.
A/B, D/E are tuned in a ma9th. An octave is found frets lower on the upper string.

Skipping 3 strings E/B, A/E are tuned in an octave & a 5th. 2 octave distance is found 5 frets higher on the upper string.

The 2 outer E strings are 2 octaves apart. 2 octave distance is found on the same fret.

Building Blocks

Beyond the surface, it is more about note relationships. Intervals are the basic building block of all melodic
and harmonic note content. Intervals form scales, chords/arpeggios, key centers basic and expanded viewpoints, or melodies, voiced chord progressions, etc. Every interval has 2 reasonable fingering options.
Fingering options multiply exponentially as more content is added to the scenario.
Hand positions are the basic physical organizing principal, what can be accessed within reach.

Finger Geography

Two and 1/3 octaves of the chromatic scale plus one unison note are available within every 5 frets.
Conveniently this terrain can be covered with 4 fingers with one extension.

Playing up and down the neck is the other principal viewpoint.
Playing on a single string is the most pronounced version of this and the logic of up and down doesn't get any clearer.
This of course requires more shifting. Best to think in terms of connecting hand positions rather than notes.
We have a starting point and an end point and there are generally multiple possibilities to get from point A to point B.

Summary

You learn the fingerboard by looking for things and finding them, over an extended period of time.
The more often you do it, the shorter the learning curve. Your understanding grows through the observations and discoveries, so pay attention and take mental notes along the way.

Addendum

The sound content is also very important otherwise this is just learning to type on a very convoluted typewriter.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I still sometimes have to think about which fret/string is which note, because I don't think in terms of notes when I improvise. I think in terms of intervals I'm hearing in my head, and then traduce that to which scale and mode will deliver the tonality I'm hearing. Because of this, I don't regard not knowing every single note's name as a hindrance. For my playing, it's more important to have my fingers able to find the interval I'm hearing in real time, because I am not thinking of note-names at all. It's more muscle-memory -- if I hear, say, a minor-third interval, my fingers know a few different ways to deliver it.

Of course it's important to know the names of the notes, but I myself think it more important to understand how they sit against each other, because that's when I become most musical.

[matt.guitarteacher]

The second finger reference , talked about by Reg (and Kurt Rosenwinkel in one of his oft mentioned videos), is pretty helpful for a different way of thinking about this.

If you have your second finger on C at the eighth fret, you should be able to pretty easily locate the two Es, without a lot of thought, and without having to think about octaves or anything else. They are the would-be 3rd of C. It's generally easier with obvious chord tones -assuming the 2nd finger/6 th string as your reference (think "root" for the moment). but you can learn to do it with all extensions/alterations.

I think we all do this pretty naturally if C actually IS the root, but Reg, Kurt , and apparently other pros use the sixth string as their "reference point" regardless of what the actual chord or key of the moment is.

When you get used to thinking this way, it's actually pretty freeing, mentally. If you think about the piano, you don't have to think about anything in relation to key or harmony to know where pitches are. And you don't really have to think about where all of the other E's are located etc. You know the location, mechanically, based on fixed reference points: the black keys.

[wolflen]

I am fortunate to have had a teacher that insisted on "12keys-ALL positions" yes a good deal of work..time..dedication and persistence..

major scale-ascending/descending
harmonized chords-triads and four note open and close voicing-INVERSIONS
arpeggios in intervals 1357 2468 etc
melodic patterns
ii7-V7 progressions
iii7 Vi7 ii7 V7
I7 bIII7 bVi7 bII7 bV7

and all variations of the above..

so theory AND diatonic harmony so you are not guessing what to do with diminished/augmented, altered dominant chords and their substitutions

and of course SONGS

[morroben]

There's an app for that.

[generalduke]

I second single string playing. I haven´t tried some of the more advanced stuff mentioned here but when I start to combine strings I start to think more in shapes and interval relationships. To get into the slow thinking mode mentioned by goldenwave I use my time spend on the public transportation system for mental practice, which keeps me thinking more about note names because I cannot rely on my ears. (Example for 3rd´s on E string: e g f a g b...a c g b f a e g / g e a f b g...b g a f g e // e g a f g b.... example for `mental`constant structure chord studies going up the neck on D G B strings in C: dgc ead fbe (meaning 001 223 345 - it just felt weird to talk about note names and write down numbers)

[Bambus123]

I have always had a lot of thoughts in my head before sleep, making it hard to fall asleep, but after I started to visualize the notes on the fretboard in bed almost every night, instead of thinking to much useless thoughts, I have learned the notes

[fep]

I learned note names over time from spending a lot of time reading music.

That said, I don't think in terms of note names when playing single note stuff, for me I'm thinking in relation to the chord tones of a near by chord grip. Chord then same lick, R b3 3 4 b5 5, below for G or G7, do you see what I mean:

-------------------
-3---------------3--
-4-----3-4-5-6----
-5---5--------------
------------------
------------------

-------------------------
---------------------------
-7------------------7--
-9------8-9-10-11---
-10--10-----------
--------------------------

-------------------------
-12------11-12-13-14--
-12--12---------------
-12--------------------
------------------------
------------------------

[wizard3739]

When I was about 14years old (1951), I drew a picture of the neck of my 1st guitar and hung it on the wall where I could look at it while I was playing. My teacher at that time gave me an old George Van Eps book and I read through it every day until I had memorized all the melodies and where they were located on the neck. Needless to say, that was also the beginning of my sight reading experience which was much later greatly reinforced at G.I.T. by Mundelle Lowe (1977-78).

wiz (Howie)

[Shadow of the Sun]

My approach is still ongoing, and is based on my own take on Reg's second-finger reference system.

Basically, I know all the notes on the sixth string and then when I have a note on another string, I figure it out in reference to the second finger on the sixth string. So the 7th fret of the G string - I figure it from the second finger on the 8th fret of the E string, which is C, and I know that the interval between the two is 9th, so the 7th fret of the G string is a D.

As I said, still on going, and takes a lot of mental gymnastics at the moment, but I'm hoping it will become more and more automatic over time.

[JazzinNY]

Mostly I agree with Bako and Mr. Beaumont.

My advice: 1) Make up a basic grid chart (empty), Xerox it a zillion times, and then you can mark up many charts.

2) Basic procedure: learn a piece of fretboard at a time. Write out the chart, say 5th position. (frets 5-9). Write out all the notes.
Then make a chart with only the notes from one key. Play thru both charts for a while, saying the notes as you go. Try to imprint them on your mind.

Then play a tune in that key, in that position. Do this many times to learn the position; then move on.


It would be interesting to see if a plan like, 5th position for 3 weeks, then 8th position for 3 weeks, etc., would be best. Me, I skipped around a lot more. But maybe really mastering one position at a time would be best.

[Drumbler]

Practicing 7th chord arpeggios all over the neck.

Call out the name of each note as you play it.

You kill two birds with one stone by doing this. You learn the arps and you learn the notes.