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The problem with just learning the notes in isolation is that it's only part of the process when talking about a guitar. What I mean by that is that, with a sax or trumpet for example, the fingering for a note is always the same and never changes no matter what key you are playing it in or what note you have just played or what note you are about to play or anything else. The note is the note - the fingering is the fingering.
With a guitar, however, the same note, at the same pitch occurs at different locations on the neck and can be played with any one of four fingers and even may have to be played with different parts of the same finger depending on what key you are playing in, what chord you are playing over, what notes you have just played, what notes you are about to play etc.
Therefore, it seems to me that learning the notes all over the fretboard requires a different strategy. For me, learning the notes everywhere was more effective by "sight-reading" tunes or exercises and playing those all over the neck. By sight-reading, it doesn't necessarily mean playing passages I've never played before but just ones that I don't have memorised. You can mix it up by starting a passage not at the beginning but in the middle or backwards or whatever.
It doesn't have to be boring either. You can get a book of licks or tunes or solo transcriptions or the omnibook or something and just start reading using different parts of the neck. It takes time but eventually it becomes easier.
Just my thoughts - I'm not a teacher really so take it for what it's worth.
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01-24-2017 09:08 AM
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Its boring and frustrating in the beginning but when getting better at it, this sporty enthusiasm will grow.. eventually
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Sorry for the name-drop, but I can relate that tip to Hal Galper's 'The illusion of an intsrument'.
I think uncluttered thinking - in manageable 'chunks' - makes the tip a helpful addition to existing musical (data and procedural) knowledge-based resources that are.... in the mind, not the fingers. The fact that the tip works for music in general (and not just guitar) is an added boon.
Personally, I'll be applying this to train myself to read. And I'll probably use flashcard drills away from the guitar.
Makes for learner autonomy - self-teaching. Better stop before I namedrop Bill Evans. Oops!
Zone of proximal development - Wikipedia
Image from that page:
Last edited by destinytot; 01-24-2017 at 11:25 AM. Reason: opinion
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It's why the guitar is a hard instrument to read on. One day a pianist told me that for him, sheet music to a pianist was like tab to a guitar player: every move to the right was a higher note and every move to the left was a lower note and the number of lines and spaces between one note and the next was how far right or left you had to move. (<<< I'm not repeating that as a serious argument for "sheet music = tab".)
Originally Posted by ColinO
It's not that way on guitar. But it's the coolest instrument, so we've got that going for us. ;o)
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ZPD/scaffolding is routine stuff for anyone involved in training and building skills. Originally Posted by ColinO
I'm not a guitar or music teacher, but I'm an experienced, registered and well-qualified teacher.
I've made a difference - as a teacher and as team leader - in a tough 'sink' school with marginalised students.
It nearly destroyed me, but - thankfully - it didn't.
I made lifestyle changes, got my priorities straight, and started living well.
I became more self-reliant - and began pursuing what makes me happy: eudaimonia.
Which means I still teach.
But earning a living as Head of Studies at a centre of excellence (with great colleagues and an ideal boss) is about my idealism - and always giving of my very best.
Playing jazz guitar is an expression of this.
For which it's nice to know the notes on the fre... (you get the picture).
Last edited by destinytot; 01-24-2017 at 10:29 AM. Reason: typos
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Another good way to learn is by teaching them to a child.
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Teaching is truely one of the best ways to learn...Another good way to learn is by teaching them to a child.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
A therapist friend used to say, "Teach what you want to learn."
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I liked this program, that helped me a bit to memorize the notes
Fretboard Warrior guitar lesson
BUT the best way is -what I learnt by ages- to read the sheet music. You can choose one sheet and read it in 3 or 4 positions on the fretboard. Go very slowly, tell the name of the note when You are watching the sheet, then keep Your eyes on the fretboard and tell that note's name again. 2-3 months and you can rush on fretboard like the hot knife in the butter! And if You are singing the notes along, You will recognize the distance of the notes later, and You will be able to make the music on the guitar, which was born in Your head... This is going to help You, also:
Last edited by mrblues; 01-25-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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I actually think the best way to learn the notes is to sight read position studies. Learning a "System" for me is a problem because now I have to first, think of the system, then second, think where I'm at RE the system, then third, apply the system.
I started out one long hot summer in (I think) 1968. My parents were divorcing and shipped me off to my grandparents' farm in north Georgia. I'd heard on the Smothers Brothers Mason Williams play "Classical Gas" with a big orchestra and was transfixed. With nothing to do but squirrel hunt and mow my grandpa's eternal fields, I bought a classical guitar, Frederick Noad's book Playing the Guitar, the sheet music to "Classical Gas," and of course, the record. I started into Noad learning the basic stuff, not realizing the classical technique was rather unique. Soon I was using Noad, the record, and the sheet music to teach myself "Classical Gas" literally one measure at a time. The music was incomplete so I had to fill in from the record and from the chords on the music. I only learned the chords I needed to play this tune!
Honestly, I knew the notes on the fingerboard very well after that. But by summer's end, I could play "Classical Gas" and still enjoy playing it.
Along the way, I realized I knew the notes on the fingerboard. Never been too good a sight-reader, but I know the notes, without any real system. Just learned them the way you learn a new neighborhood. I just sort of know them.
For fun, here's that original performance! This is what turned me into a life-long guitar addict.
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I saw that also ... was just starting to play on a cheap nylon classical doing folk and rock stuff. I'd started on piano and singing in church choir and added trombone and band in 5th grade. In 68 I started high school (9th grade then) and was playing trombone in band and orchestra and still singing in choir. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Piano, band, and vocal was all straight treble and bass clef, but in orchestra the brass played mostly from the altered clefs ... C could be any line or space, and don't worry, it will change in a few bars. Wowza.
Long time ago. A classical guitarist/harp guitarist friend (and Miriam's classical teacher in college) is a good friend of Mason Williams and has performed with him quite a number of times, they visit back and forth several times a year. Fascinating to hear all the things he's done.
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
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Nice! Originally Posted by R Neil
On my "Bucket List" is playing Classical Gas with an actual orchestra, and actually meeting Mason Williams.
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Ha,me too, both the Classical Gas and Frederick Noad book. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Classical Gas was the first tune a put a lot of effort into... I was about 13 years old. I got it done after endless repetition. A great show off tune for me at that age. That tune was instrumental in me becoming a guitarist. The other early tune for me around that time was Bach's Bouree in Emi.
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Singing and imagining the fretboard?
"Tristano suggested singing out loud what you would imagine playing on your instrument, while slowly and carefully imagining the physical details required to do so. This improved the ear by way of aural integration.
At the same time, students were to vividly imagine which fingers they would use. When it came time to play, these details would be more worked out than before, as if already practiced.
This helped students gain a mental image of pitches, and a clearer understanding of their relationship which each other. The ability to clearly imagine melody in a harmonic framework would guarantee that the information was internalized, rather than just intellectualized for the sake of the current situation."
(DOC) Lennie Tristano – Teaching Methods and Improvisational Techniques | Daryl N - Academia.edu
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Well, on the topic of learning tunes and relating it to knowing the fretboard (in terms of absolute pitches)...the one thing I do a lot of (and it especially relates to my current work on Garrison Fewell's *Melodic Approach*, trying to get every single possible way of fingering successions of triads) is to make a hard map of exactly which octave is which.
For me, it's great to know which note is an octave above, but that's not the same note. Not good enough for me.
I've found it greatly simplifies things to make a map of exactly which absolute pitches are where on the fretboard. IOW, no, there are not like a million different "C"s on the guitar. Actually, there are two an octave below concert "middle C." There are five different "middle C"s an octave above those two, in concert C. And so forth.
Yeah, that's very cool and all, but it helps me when I'm trying to figure out all the ways I can play some bebop head or something else. Octave displacement is great, but it's not how the tune goes unless it was conceived that way. More about, "where do you start the melody of 'Oleo' or 'Donna Lee' and which sounds and feels better?"
I understand pattern systems, I believe so, but I don't really want patterns or positions. I want the right note at the right time, and would rather climb up the neck than try to remember a form, so long as the note is there.
Still not all the way there, but that's what I'm doing. And, yes, I do a lot of mapping of the fretboard to standard notation (transposing an octave) when I have time to kill at work on breaks and such....meh, it passes the time.
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Truefire recently had a $5 sale on Howard Morgen's "Fingerboard Breakthrough." The first part of this course is exactly what the OP was asking. He presents a very systematic way of looking at the fretboard through octave positions.
To really get anywhere with the rest of that course, you'll want to get the notes under your hands before progressing.
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There's a lot to digest in one go, particularly if you have one of those fretboard diagrams with every note on. I'm big on placing limits on oneself in order to get the big things in the head and fingers.
There are 12 notes in music.
7 natural notes - A B C D E F G
5 Enharmonic Equivalents (the sharps and flats) - A#/Bb - C#/Db - D#/Eb - F#/Gb - G#/Ab
There are 6 strings on the guitar.
Take one string a week. Learn where the natural notes are up to fret 12. The sharps/flats will work themselves in over time.
Spend a day locating a different note on all strings.
Learn the Major Scale in 12 keys between frets 1-5. Do sharp keys in the cycle of 5ths from C to F# and the the flat keys in the cycle of 4ths from C to Gb. Clock what note changes and where with each new key - All the F naturals in C major, change to F# in G Major etc Note how many sharps/flats are in each key. Do this in multiple positions.
It’s a lot of work, good luck!Last edited by BradGuitar; 01-01-2024 at 02:12 PM.
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After years of wasting my time, being lazy and holding myself back,,,,,,
I'm learning my chord inversions ala Jimmy Bruno.
it will take time but your learning inversions, chord tones and last but not least......note names.
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'Affixed' notes found on the fretboard of an old GDR bass guitar ...
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I didnt know the notes till I did begin reading the sheet music. After that I began to make excercises like singing the notes after each, and connecting each with the knowledge of intervals also. Now I can see through the whole fretboard when singing, improvise together with singing, know the intervals, can play classical tunes etc etc. More birds with one stone: reading the sheet .
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Just learning to read will require you to know all the notes on the neck. For me that was when I first started as I learned to read and was taught to read music. Then I got pretty confident and at 18 my late friend the great guitarist Fred Rundquist said to me, " Do you know all the notes on the neck?" Well of course I did no question right?
No, I was so stupid. Fred meant was did I know the fingerboard and how the notes sounded as well as the names. Then he demonstrated this for by playing a jazz standard in any give key. In other words, if the tune called to play was Days of Wine and Roses, I needed to be able to transpose the tune and intervals with my ear basically in any key. To him that was the REAL part of know the notes on the guitar. But the actual names, no that is easy just practice sight reading.
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Hello, the method I used was too easy, no struggle at all. I began on the open skinny string and used each finger, e f f# g g#, took five minutes. Next four frets, a a# b c. 2 days later I had every note on the first string memorized up to fret 12. Next was the b string, since I already knew the pattern it was like cut and paste. It seemed like learning the pattern in a straight line made a lot more sense than jumping around the fretboard on a treasure hunt. Each person I showed this to was successful. Alternatively, learn the sound of each note like we recognize colors, play a note , hear it and know what it is, now there's ear training. There is a chart online showing each notes frequency multiplied up to the range of light so each note ( tone) is literally equal to a color. I don't think it matches the colors David Burge taught. Happy New Year!
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I'll assume you know the open strings and that the 12th fret has the same notes.
If you start by learning a few waypoints, such as learning all the notes on the 7th fret, even if you don't know all the notes in between, in short order those will all fall into place.
It also helps to verbalize notes when you play scales. For whatever reason, with the human brain's learning process that helps cement a concept into place.
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When I was a jazz infant, I made my own business size flash card of the guitar fret-board with all the notes written on it, which I kept in my wallet.
At the time I took a long bus ride to work each day. I would look at the notes on the neck, think of various ways to finger the notes and intervals and sight-sing them in my head. This practice greatly increased my knowledge of the fret-board, my ability to sight read, and my musical ear. In fact, in the end, I got more out of these trips to work each day than I got from the job itself.
Many studies have shown that those who practice something both physically and mentally (a.k.a., visualization) will progress much faster than those who only do the former.
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