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I'm curious. If I made a flash card program that taught note to location and location to note, would anyone try it? The program would track which ones are hard and easy for you, and schedule reviews accordingly, while gradually adding new notes.
I'm not generally a fan of music learning software, but this is just a simple tool to drill on an efficient schedule.
If you would like to try it, "like" this post.Last edited by Jonzo; 01-15-2017 at 03:05 PM.
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01-15-2017 02:45 PM
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I was going to, but I couldn't remember any of them. It's been decades -- some of them were nonsensical, and others referred to people I knew at the time. I do remember that I used the word "fart" any time I could, though. Even today, I'm not above that at all.
Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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That's funny. I think those mnemonic devices that people use to memorize complicated things , like decks of cards etc. are most vividly remembered when there somewhat profane or disturbing. One reason the ancients didn't like those methods, if I recall correctly. Heard all of that secondhand. So I'm not sure. Originally Posted by snailspace
I was going to, but I couldn't remember any of them. It's been decades -- some of them were nonsensical, and others referred to people I knew at the time. I do remember that I used the word "fart" any time I could, though. Even today, I'm not above that at all.
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@Jonzo - I think learning the names of the notes of the scale in all positions(calling them out as you play the scale) would be more beneficial. Also learning the horizontal scale, for instance, start at the third fret 6th string for the G scale and go up to the G at 15th fret. Again calling out the names of the scale as you play it.
Just my opinion.
edhLast edited by edh; 01-15-2017 at 10:59 PM.
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When I did it, I made sure the ancients weren't looking. A pretty dim view of it, they had. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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I understand that Mike Outram (who pops up on this forum from time to time) is something of a memory champion as well as a leading UK jazz guitarist. He mentions this book, which is a fun read:
Moonwalking with Einstein: The Art and Science of Remembering Everything: Amazon.co.uk: Joshua Foer: 9780141032139: Books
The concept of a mind palace of memory also pops up in Hillary Mantel's Wolf Hall where I first encountered it, and in a popularised form in Sherlock... Fascinating stuff.
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Oy. How how has Sherlock jumped the shark so thoroughly this season anyway? 2 episodes in (for me), and they've just killed it. It's like a butt-hurt James Bond soap opera now.... Originally Posted by christianm77
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I always get a kick out of Jonzo and his flashcard system to learn about the guitar. Don't be in such a rush to learn the notes on the neck. This ain't college! No term paper deadline. Learn things a little bit at a time and you will learn all the notes pretty quickly. Learning to play and understand guitar is not a race. Just enjoy everything you do. Make EVERYTHING fun.
Last edited by smokinguit; 01-16-2017 at 08:37 AM.
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Neuroscience in Fiction: Hannibal Lecter's Memory Palace - Scientific American Blog Network Originally Posted by christianm77
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I enjoyed it actually, and the last series which everyone seemed to be disappointed by as well. I thought it was entertaining. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
People have such high expectations of TV and film these days. I would say the BBC is lagging behind HBO and Netflix in terms of TV drama these days though...Last edited by christianm77; 01-16-2017 at 08:59 AM.
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maybe volume-wise? ...but shows like hinterland and Broadchurch are Internet-streaming crack. Originally Posted by christianm77
Sherlock at least had a working formula, with longer arc in the background. Now, the longer arc craziness has mostly supplanted the other though. I'm not usually judgmental of things which I don't like in the first place , but I don't like people messing with "my" shows, something which already works on a basic level.
Anyway, has Mike ever addressed anything regarding memory, in terms of actual fretboard ?
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One lesson about learning that we discovered at the office is that different people learn in different ways.
This thread is great for how it illustrates the variety of possible methods used.
I like learning guitar more than , say, brain surgery or rocket science, because , probably no one dies if I make a mistake or learn more slowly than another.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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He does have a technique for learning the notes on the neck that I can't track down a link for... It's all part of the Electric Campfire course... Not dissimilar to the sort of thing discussed on the thread. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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I've never known a guitar player who perfectly knew his fretboard I mean playing something without thinking where he should start the tune, those who know it, play a lot of tunes or come from another instrument.
I think all guitar players should play the piano time to time.
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What about rocket surgery? Originally Posted by amyFB
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There's knowing something and there is accessing that knowledge.
I suspect we've all had the experience of knowing a tune but after not having played it for some time struggling to recall --away from the instrument--how it starts. But if a recording came on, we would recognize it immediately and fall right in.
Memory and recall are not identical. We see this most readily with people. If you unexpectedly run into someone you haven't seen for months, maybe a year or two, you suddenly recall lots of things (--her hair was shorter last time, and lighter; she's heavier now; there's that quip she made about dogs with hats; she HATES yogurt but loves cream cheese; there's that smile that kills me; her brother is a bouncer at such-and-such bar; her dad is an English professor; her mother loves the word 'harpsichord' but hates the sound of the instrument; they're cat people) you would not have been able to recall--at least not without great effort---the moment before. The memories were there (wherever the "there" of memories is) but you could not readily access them.
This is why, I think, many jazz greats stress the learning of tunes. Tunes are the context in which you need to recall such intros / vamps / turnarounds / licks / patterns / devices / rhythms / endings as you have learned. (Many people who practice licks and scales but not tunes have a hard time doing anything with their licks and scales but practicing them; when asked to play a tune, any tune, they may struggle to get from one end to the other.)
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Success is fun. Originally Posted by smokinguit
A flash card deck is a scheduling system that self-adjusts based on your level of confidence in what you are trying to learn; nothing more or less.
I should add that it is also not a complete system. It is a good method for learning and maintaining discrete skills, but you have to integrate those skills into practical applications.Last edited by Jonzo; 01-16-2017 at 02:21 PM.
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Jonzo's standard for arguing/shouting down anyone ELSE'S ideas is all about "proof", studies, basically being able to actually substantiate every detail and quantify things as if in a test tube in a laboratory - and that's about the very soft "science" of MUSIC, of which many aspects CAN'T be quantified in such a cold-blooded, nonartistic way.
Apparently the same standards are not true, when it's him. Whatever. I suppose we all obsess over certain things. I certainly do.
Just a little hard to swallow when you're otherwise so vindictive towards others' talking out of their arses, when you are currently doinh the same. To speak with so much authority, when that seeming authority is so baseless, and to people who are otherwise good-spirited, generous and who actually DO have some credibility.....Not speaking about myself there certainly. Anyway.
Whatever. Apparently I'm on his ignore. Newbies, take what he says for what it's actually worth.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-16-2017 at 02:15 PM.
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Sorry for harping on this, but I've met so many guitarists who would do anything to learn to read, except get a book and practice.
Here's something that I think might actually help. Get a reading buddy. There are plenty of guitarists in the same boat.
Get a book that has graded duets (Rhythms by Colin and Bower is my suggestion) and start working together. Play everything in two different octaves.
And, to return to the initial issue of learning the fretboard -- I don't think there's a better way. There are other ways to learn it, but this one has the advantage that you come away both knowing the fretboard and knowing how to read -- which is a very useful skill.
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I work with kids, and many of them say they don't like to read . . . so they end up not being able to read very well. Teachers are always telling them to read for at least 20 minutes every day, and the kids just roll their eyes. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I ask them, "How much reading does it take for you to feel like you want to jump out of your skin and run away? Five minutes? Then read for three minutes a day. Set a timer so you don't accidentally read too much, but do it every day."
At some point, they come back and tell me they forgot to time themselves, and they read for 20 minutes one day. A few more days like those, and they find out they have the stamina to read for more than five minutes, and reading every day isn't a problem anymore.
Taking my own advice, I picked up a copy of Mel Bay's Modern Guitar Method, Grade One, and started working my way through it. Sure enough, I felt like I wanted to jump out of my skin after five minutes; but when I do it every day, I notice myself becoming more confident with the dots on the page, and more able to make sense of standard notation when I encounter it in various fake books and transcriptions.
A few more pages, and I'll be ready for Grade Two.
Student Has Amazing Breakthrough By Doing What Teacher Says
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To continue harping <g>
Rhythms Complete by Bower, Bugs, Colin, Charles | qPress
This links to a site which shows page one of the Rhythms book.
Clearly, you have to be able to find the notes in the first position. Since the book isn't a guitar book, it doesn't show you that. I think that's why my teacher had me start with Mel Bay 1 and 2.
But, I was 14 at the time. I think an adult player could probably start with Rhythms and figure it out.
You need to know the chromatic scale, where the notes are on the staff, and you can then make a fretboard diagram.
Play the passage in first position and then, play the same thing an octave higher.
The arrows show which way your foot should be going for each note, so you can learn syncopation. And, the chord symbols allow for making it a duet, well, melody and chords.
As I recall, by the end of the book there are passages with multiple sharps and flats.
The music is kind of old fashioned swing style, but it's part of the foundation of jazz and I still think it sounds cool.
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I used to teach learning disabled teens. A lot of them had been diagnosed with dyslexia. I decided that improving their reading was a major priority, and that what they needed most was practice. So I just cold turkey said they were going to read for 40 minutes a day. They accused me of torture, and some said that I couldn't force them to read, and that they would just pretend. I said they could pretend to read if they wanted to, as long as their eyes were open and their mouths were closed. Originally Posted by snailspace
They all got sucked in by the material. For me what worked was finding stuff that was compelling, but also at a level that they could comprehend. There are young adult novels that are written with easy vocabulary. There are skateboarding magazines that have pictures to help with comprehension. There are Calvin and Hobbs and The Far Side collections. As their skills improved, it was a natural progression for them to choose more challenging material.
Consistent practice got even the "dyslexic" kids progressing rapidly. I remember there was one mom who was just amazed that her son had gone from third to ninth grade level. She wanted to know about the miracle therapy that I used to cure him. It was a bit of a let down to tell her the truth.
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Hey fella, Originally Posted by christianm77
Yep, here's a bunch of stuff on learning the notes. The first article outlines that method, and there's a bit more around the site which you can find from this link:
You searched for learn the notes - Online Guitar Lessons
Hope that helps
Mike
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Ha! I enjoyed that. Originally Posted by snailspace
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Thanks, Mike! I'll see if I really have this down as well as I think I do. ;o) Originally Posted by Mike Outram
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A few bad notes or a missed chord
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