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I've been on this forum a while, and obviously there is a real mix here between the hobbyists and professionals which is terrific. However I just wanted to offer some observations on the craft of jazz guitar that I have noticed in my line of work, which happens to be jazz guitar.
So I wanted to offer some basic advice to beginners to keep in mind as a road map for development.
Who am I? Well no one in particular, I would describe myself as an able and employable guitarist, and I do work quite a lot, both as a sideman and leader, racking up a couple of hundred dates a year. Not as many as some, but enough to be able to call myself a pro player with a degree of legitimacy.
I play pretty much everything - genres ranging from swing to fusion and contemporary. Rather more swing and straight ahead I have to say. I also hang out with quite a few fellow professional musicians including some excellent jazz guitar players.
This is what I have noticed music wise. I'm not going to cover business stuff because that would sit better in the 'Bandstand' thread and is more relevant to advanced players who want to do this stuff for income.
OK, here are my pointers.
1) Jazz is not necessarily about being progressive or complex. Like all forms of music it has a progressive and complex wing, but the core of the music is actually about playing songs in 4/4 with good time.
I say this because many guitars players come into jazz from a prog rock background looking for the next challenge. I know I did. Jazz is certainly a challenge, but not always for the reasons you might think. Accept the challenges of jazz on their own terms. Become part of a great tradition.
2) Listen to jazz. You don't need to listen to everything. No one expects that, and I used to get intimidated with the apparent depth of other people's listening, where in fact I should have been open to recommendations. While it is important IMO to get some overview of the history, in the end their will be a few players that really speak to you, and this is a good thing. Listen to them a lot. Find a hero (or three) and listen to them a lot.
Also you must learn to listen. There are different ways of listening, of which the most intense is what we often call transcription. This means, really, learning solos. Learning someone else's improvisations might seem like a weird way to learn to improvise, but it sharpens your ear and teaches you the way that the jazz language works on an intuitive level.
3) You need to know tunes to play with people. The more tunes you know, the more people like playing with you. I think of this as the principle of 'making things easy.' In the profession, popular working sidemen - i.e. players that get called to do a gig rather than having to hustle their own - make things very easy for the leader. That's in all sorts of ways, but one key way for straight up jazz gigs is knowing lots of tunes. My advice is - start learning tunes by heart as soon as possible.
But - this is important - learn tunes you like! There's nothing worth than trying to do something becasue you feel you should. If you love a tune, you will play it better....
4) You need to play with other musicians to get better. Therefore, your practice time should be directed towards this aim, and you desperately need to find players in your area. Preferably players who are in that sweet spot of being better than you but not so much that they find playing with you a drag. Don't be shy. Get out there and do it.
5) Important skills for playing in a band. Listening. Listening. Listening. Knowing tunes. Reading (a bit) esp. chord charts and rhythms in notation. And of course comping. Make the band sound good. Don't feel you have to be the star when you solo. That's actually less important, and why we have sax players. But seriously, comping is not about learning millions of chord voicings. It's about making really great musical use of voicings you know in order to make the soloist sound good. I know quite a few great players who only ever seem to play the obvious jazz guitar voicings but no-one cares one bit, because they play them so well.
6) Do simple things well. If you are serious, much of your musical life will be geared towards polishing simple things. No one cares if you know hundreds of scales if they all sound out of time, poorly executed and unmusical. Great players polish their playing until it gleams.
7) Time. Become a Rhythm obsessive. Rhythm is the most important thing in this music. Find out as much as you can, listen critically to your own time, and above all play with others. Metronome practice, useful though it is, is no substitute for playing with musicians with good time.
8) The practice room is a means not an end. The end is to get on the band stand and feel as comfortable as possible. It's not always the case that you will be completely comfortable, but you can make life easier for yourself by doing your homework. That's what practice is for. Nothing more.
9) Not all important lessons are pleasant. Music is just like the rest of life.
10) Lastly, don't become too self absorbed. No matter how good you get, you will never hear your playing the way others do, so don't try to. Go out to gigs and listen to other musicians, try and keep the focus outward to what you can learn from others.
I'm sure I've missed a load of them!Last edited by christianm77; 10-03-2016 at 07:53 AM.
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10-03-2016 07:41 AM
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Perfect advice for all aspiring players looking to do what you are doing, i.e., 200 gigs (or more) per year.
I wonder, though, if most aspiring players on this Forum actually aspire to being a regular gigging player playing old tunes to small (often distracted) audiences ? More than 50% ?
I'm probably not typical, but I know that my own interest lies in composing tunes in the Hard Bop / Post Bop style with a view to doing a handful of performances each year with good players, most of whom I'd need to pay. In that respect, most of your tips still apply, but maybe in a different way...
If I had to suggest a point # 11, it would be something like - Embrace all that makes your playing unique, and work at making it your thing. Better to be yourself and suck, than to be an impressive clone....
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
(Actually I have played a lot of originals in my gigs over the past few weeks as it happens. It comes and goes.)
True enough. But I would say that my advice stands just the same if you want to play frequently with musicians in any context. And for players at any level of development.
The main driver of improvement in anyones playing IMO is working with others, whether that's rehearsing for fun, playing at jams or getting together at someone's house (which is something I do myself in the quiet months). But beyond that, it is what jazz is to me - a music played with others.
I'm probably not typical, but I know that my own interest lies in composing tunes in the Hard Bop / Post Bop style with a view to doing a handful of performances each year with good players, most of whom I'd need to pay. In that respect, most of your tips still apply, but maybe in a different way...
If I had to suggest a point # 11, it would be something like - Embrace all that makes your playing unique, and work at making it your thing. Better to be yourself and suck, than to be an impressive clone....
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Hey, I wasn't puttin' ya down! You have my admiration and respect for doing what you do. Really. But great to know that you get the occasional originals across.
Me? I don't gig much these days, I Produce and play on recordings for a living. TBH, not many people know my passion is Jazz, it's not a burning desire of mine to get my Jazz playing out there. It's a serious, private hobby. I have friends who are top players (world class actually), and they're happy for me to sit in, but I'm still developing my "thing", which was supposed to be ready 5 years ago ...
Your tips #4, #8 and #10 are things I struggle with. I'm a big believer in the "performance", and musical interaction (I hate overdubbing and/or editing where not necessary or appropriate). Yet, curiously, I'm perfectly content creating backing tracks to play against. This is because I'm always practicing something hard, and when I get it down I move on to something else that's too hard. Haha, I guess if I ever get to the point where nothing's too hard anymore, I'll feel ready to play with my Jazz buddies!
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I really think most of that advice can apply to anybody wanting to get better...and not just in a jazz style!
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Honestly, even as a bedroom jazzer for this season, I have had a very profound benefit in my playing and enjoyment of playing with others OUTSIDE of jazz as a result of my jazz "hobby". There have been improvements in all aspects, but most profoundly in rhythmic interplay. There's a lot of enjoyment to be had, even in the most straightahead, mundane kind of music, which may happen to pay the bills at the moment, when you get "into the cracks", rhythmically, with the subdivisions and grooves which you can use "around " other musicians who may be playing more straightahead.
It's greatly increased my awareness of ways to help my young drummers with problems of overplaying, because you can actually deal with the issues of "drummer boredom " in straightahead styles, by simply making the grooves and interactions slightly more sophisticated - actually playing less, but in a much more interactive, nuanced and stimulating way as a musician. I find I actually enjoy all styles of music more from the small number of years I have spent studying and listening to Jazz.
Of course, the larger point is still that most of those benefits AREN'T going to happen if I'm NOT playing with others regularly.
Sorry, if OT.
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I don't think it's off topic at all.
I think there's an especially important meaning to jazz players maybe (which overlaps into some other styles as well) but the point is if you're playing music that is so reliant on communication, listening, and reacting, you're simply not going to get any better at that stuff without playing with other living beings.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
So yeah, there's good and bad stuff about playing with others. Even playing along with great recordings sometimes can feel equally, or even more organic. Depends on the style. I know guys who gig all the time, and you hear how it's affected their playing. It's not always good. Sometimes it sounds like everyone has learned to fit in between the drummer's cracks, like that's the whole point. (But it is the whole point! they cry...) Well, thankfully I can disagree. I just don't like what happened to Jazz drumming after 1965, it's too much, and when it is simple, it's too "rock", or too "funky" for my tastes....
There, I said it.Last edited by princeplanet; 10-03-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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Can't emphasize enough, from my point of view, the importance of repetition and simplicity and listening. The stuff you most internalize is the stuff you really listen for; and to do simple things well it's really important.
As an adult who came to the guitar late and learning to play from scratch ( thus, never went through the Metallica or Erruption phase, so I couldn't tell you a damn thing about that ) but an adult with two college degrees, when I was taking lessons, I will always remember the most important lesson I was given: "youre very smart and you think you understand things but you understand them from an intellectual perspective: you will never understand until you do it and can do it without fail, and that takes constant repetition of doing things correctly "
The other thing I would add for anyone starting out is to get a good teacher to simplify and make sense of the big picture and outline a big roadmap. There's too much information out there: ultimately, a good teacher will help you become your own teacher, I.e., learn to develop your own sense of inquisitiveness and to be able to ask questions and search for answers.
Otherwise, one will always be constantly throwing shit against the wall, desperately hoping that something will stick .
Again, I will throw in a Sid Jacobs quote ---" oh my god oh my God, what am I gonna play, am I going to play the altered scale, am I going to play Lydian dominant, am I going to play mixolydian ? Everybody will be gone by the time you figure it out "
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
A good player plays the gig.
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^^^ yep!
You have to remember it's MUSIC.
Jazz is one of those things, I really can't imagine how anybody could play it if it's not the music that "plays in their head." And the only way to get to that point is tons of listening. Ravenous listening. Obsessive listening
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Yeah, but let's face it, not every gig is going to be with great players on every instrument every time.
Part of improvisation is not just "what do I play over this chord?," but "where's my place in this group and how do I make us sound the best we can?"
That's something you can only learn in the moment.
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Originally Posted by NSJ
This is advice it's taken me a long time to realise myself. I always thought I could get away with things. You can't. You have to put in the time.
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And I still think better to really know 5 things than "know of" 50.
I'm always surprised at how simple things like fretboard knowledge and chord building can cover so much ground in jazz. It's really not as esoteric as folks like to make it out to be.
Perhaps it's a case of "I paid for this education, I'm gonna use it dammit!"
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Originally Posted by christianm77
7) Time. Become a Rhythm obsessive. Rhythm is the most important thing in this music. Find out as much as you can, listen critically to your own time, and above all play with others. Metronome practice, useful though it is, is no substitute for playing with musicians with good time.
I was at a session last night and played for part of it with a pianist who had terrible time, and a drummer who was a bull in a china shop (i.e., he had good time, but didn't really listen to what others were doing). Trying to stay on beat, and do something that the drummer wouldn't step all over was a real challenge.
I guess I would add - for jam sessions at least - pay attention to the etiquette and the way the other folks are doing things. If everyone is taking two choruses, start with that. Sometimes you can get away with 3, but nobody likes it when a guy comes in and blows 20 choruses when that's not what the rest are doing. Watch the leader, too, and learn the sign language (it's pretty obvious - pointing to the head to play the head, holding up 4 fingers for trading fours, etc, but it's amazing how many people either don't know this stuff or aren't paying attention.) Also, go in prepared with a couple of tunes to call. It always seems to happen where someone says, "what do you want to play" and everyone goes, "I dunno... you got one?"
Oh, also (I learned this one from a couple of comedian friends): You're going to bomb. You're going to have nights where nothing goes right. You're going to sound like ass. It WILL happen. Keep going regardless. You'll have fewer of them as you progress.Last edited by Boston Joe; 10-03-2016 at 12:25 PM.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Look, I think it's just me. I'm pretty sure no one else I know has a problem with modern Jazz drumming. TBH, it's not just modern drumming that irks me. If I compare the 10 best records from last year to the 10 best from 1964, I'd probably come up with a long list of things I prefer about the older recordings!
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
One thing it is quite hard to do is find someone who plays with that really defined old school sound. A case in point is ride cymbal - finding someone who really expresses time with ride and doesn't just wash everything out. Someone who is happy to play groove and not play fills all the time.
Someone who knows when to interact and when to hang back, when to improvise and when to play it simple, and is sensitive to the historical context of the music.
Someone who understands that jazz isn't a free-for-all but a music with a profound basis in African American dance music.
Someone who swings.
Man, that's true of all instruments TBH.
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I got a confession to make: 3) that's always been a struggle. It's not that I don't know many tunes, I got enough to play a 4 hour gig... but it's still not enough! Not in NYC. When you play with pretty much the same group of people most of the time, you know the tunes that you need, and that will cover it... for the moment. It is a very slow process with me, learning new tunes. Many of them don't excite me that much, and I have to force my senses. Well, like it's been said, not everything meant to be pleasant, especially if it's a job.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
One of my goals is to good enough at learning chord progressions I can do it on the bandstand while playing it.
Actually, I already find mastering the melody much harder than getting an outline of the changes good enough to solo on. That's the next hurdle...
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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This post is one of the reasons I appreciate this forum - members being generous in sharing their experiences, knowledge and time for the enlightenment of their fellow forum members, thank you Christian et al.
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3 choruses? Shit, how important do you think your playing is?
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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