Who uses lots of chromatic notes in their playing?

**bobsguitars09** · 01-01-2016, 02:20 AM

**docbop** · 01-01-2016, 03:39 AM

All the Beboppers, Fusion players, most styles when you hear that friction, the rub, then resolving its usually chromatic's on a dominant then resolving.

**henryrobinett** · 01-01-2016, 04:30 AM

I don't know. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. When you live in the moment -- improv -- you can't really tell.

**jazzguy100** · 01-01-2016, 04:50 AM

that's why should record yourself

**henryrobinett** · 01-01-2016, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by jazzguy100

that's why should record yourself

Who? Why should you record yourself? To tell whether you play lots of chromatic notes?

**jordanklemons** · 01-01-2016, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by bobsguitars09

Who uses lots of chromatic notes in their playing?

Are you asking what famous players out there use them? Or who here on the forum uses a lot of chromatics?

**orri** · 01-01-2016, 03:33 PM

Arent't all notes chromatic notes?

(apart from that microtonal music crop)

**christianm77** · 01-01-2016, 08:41 PM

Django Reinhardt.

Learning to use chromatics is an integral part of learning to play functional harmony....

For myself.... I used to use more chromatics. I think my playing is becoming more diatonic....

Also - is the altered scale on a G7 chord diatonic or chromatic? Depends on how you are looking at it.

**jazzguy100** · 01-01-2016, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Who? Why should you record yourself? To tell whether you play lots of chromatic notes?

no, so you know what's going on in your playing. you can't just assume what you know what you sound like. you need to listen when you're not playing as well as when you are, listening all the time.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-01-2016, 08:51 PM

Henry's obviously never recorded himself. Too busy looking at mountains.

**henryrobinett** · 01-01-2016, 08:54 PM

I've listened to myself play a lot. I have had many recording studios and I'm a audio engineer. But sometimes listening to yourself can be a lot like people obsessively taking selfies. With jazz I think you have to learn to let most of that stuff go. The music was here and then it's gone. Make more and don't obsess over what you played or how you played it. Practice time is for correcting things. Playing time is for playing without you inner teacher lecturing in your ear. That's the way I treat it.

I play. I play a lot of chromatic stuff when I want to. But there's no rule or hopefully overriding tendency either way.

**jazzguy100** · 01-01-2016, 08:55 PM

i'm not referring to professional recordings. i mean recording practice sessions...or maybe you'd actually have to practice to do that

**henryrobinett** · 01-01-2016, 08:56 PM

Yeah. I've done that A LOT over the years. Maybe too much. Comes and goes in waves.

**henryrobinett** · 01-01-2016, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by jazzguy100

i'm not referring to professional recordings. i mean recording practice sessions...or maybe you'd actually have to practice to do that

As I said I'm an audio engineer. I practice in my studio so it's very easy to turn on the recorder. 11 CDs later since the mid 80s, I've had a lot of time to hear myself.

**jazzguy100** · 01-01-2016, 09:03 PM

fair enough, its still good to do it though

**henryrobinett** · 01-01-2016, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by jazzguy100

fair enough, its still good to do it though

Sure, if you don't over do it.

**christianm77** · 01-02-2016, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Henry's obviously never recorded himself. Too busy looking at mountains.

Man that is a good choice of priorities.

I sometimes wonder how much listening compulsively back to recordings of oneself is an expression of self-absorption. I think it can be unhealthy. I have to do it enough anyway because I have to cut videos and mp3's together to get gigs..... And recording sessions from time to time, always a lesson in those.

Probably better to play music and look at mountains.... I like mountains. I've seen some good mountains this year :-)

**targuit** · 01-02-2016, 09:42 AM

Henry - Perhaps this is an aside but I have a question for you as an audio engineer. What is the best book you've read about recording and mixing at a home studio level?

I ask because I accidentally did something recording yesterday that really improved things. I use a standalone old legacy Korg D1200. It has an ample printed booklet for operations but some things are not specifically discussed.

The issue in question. I've have been trying to record just two or three track performances of standards in terms of a vocal track plus one or two guitar tracks. From the info in the Korg booklet on recording tracks and panning, one got the impression that it was better in terms of the audio to record the individual tracks as stage center - 12:00 in terms of panning. Even if you intend to pan that track to 10:00 or 2:00 sound stage left or right. I mistakenly left the panning set to 10 for the 'rhythm' or comping guitar track when I went to record it. Then when I then laid down a combination vocal and second guitar track panned to center at 12, issues which I had with timing of overdubbed tracks seemed to resolve themselves. And the actual first rhythm track seemed much fuller in some way. But the big thing was the resolution of timing issues involved in overdubbing. So my question is whether it is better to record tracks with the panning set to center at 12 or to record the track initially set to the panned position that you want ultimately in the mix? Does it matter?

Maybe it is much ado about nothing. I think if I had the money and the time, I would like to take a course at a community college or something on audio engineering. We spend a lot of time working on our playing skills, but if you are not in a professional studio, what you don't know can make a big impact on your recordings.

I did not wish to stray too far off topic, but I hope you can indulge me for this momentary diversion. I don't know how else to ask this question to someone with a solid background in audio engineering.

**grahambop** · 01-02-2016, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

Henry - Perhaps this is an aside but I have a question for you as an audio engineer. What is the best book you've read about recording and mixing at a home studio level?

I ask because I accidentally did something recording yesterday that really improved things. I use a standalone old legacy Korg D1200. It has an ample printed booklet for operations but some things are not specifically discussed.

The issue in question. I've have been trying to record just two or three track performances of standards in terms of a vocal track plus one or two guitar tracks. From the info in the Korg booklet on recording tracks and panning, one got the impression that it was better in terms of the audio to record the individual tracks as stage center - 12:00 in terms of panning. Even if you intend to pan that track to 10:00 or 2:00 sound stage left or right. I mistakenly left the panning set to 10 for the 'rhythm' or comping guitar track when I went to record it. Then when I then laid down a combination vocal and second guitar track panned to center at 12, issues which I had with timing of overdubbed tracks seemed to resolve themselves. And the actual first rhythm track seemed much fuller in some way. But the big thing was the resolution of timing issues involved in overdubbing. So my question is whether it is better to record tracks with the panning set to center at 12 or to record the track initially set to the panned position that you want ultimately in the mix? Does it matter?

Maybe it is much ado about nothing. I think if I had the money and the time, I would like to take a course at a community college or something on audio engineering. We spend a lot of time working on our playing skills, but if you are not in a professional studio, what you don't know can make a big impact on your recordings.

I did not wish to stray too far off topic, but I hope you can indulge me for this momentary diversion. I don't know how else to ask this question to someone with a solid background in audio engineering.

I assume it's better to record each track with no panning, then you can pan wherever and as much as you want when you do the mixing. At least that's how I do it.

**grahambop** · 01-02-2016, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I assume it's better to record each track with no panning, then you can pan wherever and as much as you want when you do the mixing. At least that's how I do it.

Bear in mind, a professional setup allows you to have panning, reverb, etc. as a temporary 'headphone' mix, without any of these settings being committed to the actual recorded track. That way you can have a comfortable mix for overdubbing purposes, then do a proper final mix (which may be completely different) later.

I don't really have that luxury with my simple setup, so I take the approach of only applying panning, reverb etc. after I have recorded the basic tracks.

**targuit** · 01-02-2016, 12:04 PM

The manner in which you describe how you record each individual or pair of tracks is the way I have always done it. Recording with one or two tracks dead center, then panning them in the mix. But when I overdub, I seem to have more problems with the timing of the tracks than when I made the "mistake" of recording the original guitar track at 10 stage left. After recording the rhythm guitar track, I recorded the vocal track as a pair, this was recorded at the prescribed 12:00 center. I happened to play a bit of second guitar as I sang the vocal. The timing was right on the money and the mix sounded better. I don't know why.

I'm going to try it again today with a couple of other tunes to see what happens.

**grahambop** · 01-02-2016, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by targuit

The manner in which you describe how you record each individual or pair of tracks is the way I have always done it. Recording with one or two tracks dead center, then panning them in the mix. But when I overdub, I seem to have more problems with the timing of the tracks than when I made the "mistake" of recording the original guitar track at 10 stage left. After recording the rhythm guitar track, I recorded the vocal track as a pair, this was recorded at the prescribed 12:00 center. I happened to play a bit of second guitar as I sang the vocal. The timing was right on the money and the mix sounded better. I don't know why.

I'm going to try it again today with a couple of other tunes to see what happens.

It may be that having the first track panned left made it easier to hear the separation between what was already recorded and what you were overdubbing, perhaps? That's where being able to do a rough 'headphone mix' helps make the process a bit easier.

If it works better for you the way you describe, then you may as well pan it, if that's where you're ultimately intending to pan it anyway.

**targuit** · 01-02-2016, 12:47 PM

My thoughts exactly. It may not be the "correct" way, but that is where I want the track ultimately. I think the only problem would be if one changes one's mind about the ultimate pan in the mix. With just two or three tracks (or pairs of tracks), it is hard to go wrong. Thanks for the response, Graham.

Sorry to detour the thread. Back to the topic. Though maybe Henry will opine briefly.

**rcpj** · 01-02-2016, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by bobsguitars09

Who uses lots of chromatic notes in their playing?

Chromaticism very important - but tends to often get used as a crutch by lots of guitarists to cover up not being able to outline changes well enough, resulting in meandering..the easy visual lay out of playing chromatically on the instrument obviously big factor for this..

Chromaticism best used to color up/ornament a chord tone/diatonic approach, generally IMO..

**lawson-stone** · 01-02-2016, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I've listened to myself play a lot. I have had many recording studios and I'm a audio engineer. But sometimes listening to yourself can be a lot like people obsessively taking selfies. With jazz I think you have to learn to let most of that stuff go. The music was here and then it's gone. Make more and don't obsess over what you played or how you played it. Practice time is for correcting things. Playing time is for playing without you inner teacher lecturing in your ear. That's the way I treat it.

I play. I play a lot of chromatic stuff when I want to. But there's no rule or hopefully overriding tendency either way.

I really like this a lot.