-
For "Pro's Jazz Phrases"? Yes, I did. I think it's worth having. Low-fi as all get out (-originally put out on cassette, I think, then later transferred to disc) but it helps to hear the lines. Especially the ones I find hard to read! ;o)
Originally Posted by Dave70
Here is what I have by Carol Kaye:
Jazz Guitar booklet / CD
Pro's Jazz Phrases booklet / CD
Standards I & II charts and CDs
Soloing DVD Course (booklet and DVD)
Jazz Guitar Workshop DVD (<<<just got this a few weeks ago, so I haven't been through the whole thing yet)
-
04-11-2016 09:16 PM
-
Yeah I have the same stuff as you.
Plus I got the Joe Pass "Better Days" cd and charts just for fun.
-
I didn't know charts came with that! Originally Posted by Dave70
Yeah I have the same stuff as you. Plus I got the Joe Pass "Better Days" cd and charts just for fun.
-
You can order charts and transcriptions separately from the cd , $4 for charts, $6.50 for solo transcriptions.
-
I sent Carol a 10 dollar money order today and asked her to send me all the picks that would cover (minus postage, of course.) Had I know this-----well, it's not like I don't have enough material to work on as it is. Originally Posted by Dave70
Speaking of which, my copy of "Joe Pass Guitar Style" has reached the top of my pile of things to work on, so I should be starting it soon. Was looking for the CD but can't find it. This was the CD that contains tracks added by Carol. (The original edition, with examples played by Joe, was on cassette and not very long; Carol added more tracks later.) If I can't find it, I'll have to order another copy. But I know it's gotta be around here somewhere.....
-
I also picked Pro's Jazz Phrases, and have been going through it a couple of times a week. I play a couple of the phrases in a variety of keys. She also sent an extra sheet that says to play 2-3 times each session. I'm enjoying working on that as well. I actually like the hand-written style!
What I like about these phrases, is that they show different harmonic and rhythmic concepts in a simple, but creative manner. They can also be a bit technically challenging at times. Good stuff!Last edited by srlank; 04-11-2016 at 10:14 PM.
-
Originally Posted by srlank
I also picked Pro's Jazz Phrases, and have been going through it a couple of times a week. I play a couple of the phrases in a variety of keys. She also sent an extra sheet that says to play 2-3 times each session. I'm enjoying working on that as well. I actually like the hand-written style!
What I like about these phrases, is that they show different harmonic and rhythmic concepts in a simple, but creative manner. They can also be a bit technically challenging at times. Good stuff!
That extra sheet is the ii-V-I exercise, right? I have 3 versions of that. Much of it is the same but a few things are different. Sometimes I play it from a different starting point and see how far I can go that way. What I love about that exercise is that it is like something from a tune: D- G7 / C / C- F7b9 / Bb / Bb- Eb7b9 / Ab / Ab- Db7 / Gb/ and so on. It sure moves you around the neck!
-
I have now played every line in "Pro's Jazz Phrases" several times. I take the booklet in groups of four pages. (Because the phrases are divided into four keys, one per page: C, Eb, F, and G. I asked her why she chose those four keys and she hammered me for it. I was mortified but I got over it in a few days.)
Now I want to do them all again---the more you do it, the quicker you move through them. I still have trouble reading some of the chords---I wish the booklet were full sized: that would be easier on my eyes. But there is a wealth of good material there.
I once told her, "I've heard some of those lines on some classic jazz records" and she said, "Those lines are on ALL those records!"
-
Congratulations on making it all the way through the book! And good for you putting principles before personalities. I'm not very good at that.
So far I've made it through about 3 pages of the book and most of the 251 sheet. Are you starting to have any of the concepts come out in your playing over tunes? The main one that's coming out for me is the dim triad on the major 7 chord. It sounds bluesy, but it's got the twist of the major 7. Very nice sound!
-
"I asked her why she chose those four keys and she hammered me for it. I was mortified but I got over it in a few days."
What'd she say Mark?
-
And not Bb? I have read the thread at Carol's forum. I don't think I will try to post a question there Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
.
-
Yeah, that was me. I wasn't challenging her or being flippant; I was genuinely curious. And thought others might be too---not a lot of activity in that Forum. And now there will be less from me! Originally Posted by hats
And not Bb? I have read the thread at Carol's forum. I don't think I will try to post a question there.
Sometimes I want to tell her: "You were playing good jazz live in the '50s and that's great but it isn't the '50s NOW and this really is no way to speak to an adult who come to you with a question. If you don't want feedback, stop hosting a Forum!" But I don't say that....
-
But what was her response as to the four specific keys?
-
She didn't answer that. She was upset that I even asked. She thinks students today think / analyze too much rather than play. Her thing is, "play, don't analyze." Joe Pass offers that advice in his book "Joe Pass Guitar Style." There, he was stressing that you need to hear the 'modern' sounds and your ear will get used to them and then guide you. I have no problem with that. Originally Posted by targuit
I was simply wondering why she chose THOSE four keys. She says that the others are a fret up or down, and I get that, but these are a fret up or down from those, so that's not---to my mind---an explanation.
I do think she is right about playing things in four keys, though. She doesn't think it a good idea to play things in all 12. One has to be able to play in all 12 keys, but to play all one learned in all 12 keys would take more time than it is worth. I think four works well for guitar because if you play lines in those four keys, any other key is likely to be the same fingering at another place.
-
That's a book that I think merits a study group Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
-
Yes, some things do. Others will. Originally Posted by srlank
Congratulations on making it all the way through the book! And good for you putting principles before personalities. I'm not very good at that.
So far I've made it through about 3 pages of the book and most of the 251 sheet. Are you starting to have any of the concepts come out in your playing over tunes? The main one that's coming out for me is the dim triad on the major 7 chord. It sounds bluesy, but it's got the twist of the major 7. Very nice sound!
One thing she is big on---in all of her books that I have seen, except maybe the one on sightreading---is 'stacking triads.'
Say, you have a G7, the V chord of C. The idea is to play the triad of each chord tone and then continue on until you get back to where you started.
G7's chord tones are G, B, D, F. The triads are G(B,D) B (D,F) D(F,A) F(A,C). Continuing from there, you have next have these triads: A(C,E) C(E,G) E(G,B) G(B,D)
If you think in terms of the chordal scale (and if you work with Carol's material, you definitely will, a major scale lays out like this: I ii iii IV V7 vi vii-7b5. The triad stacks for a V7 would be: V vii ii IV / vi I iii V. They alternate between major and minor triads, with one exception: the vii (m7b5) is followed by another minor chord (ii)
This may sound complicated but it is easy to play. (The top two notes of the triad you play first become the bottom two notes of the one you play second, and this repeats all the way around. It's a cycle...)
You can do lots with this device. Play all of it, part of it, start in different places. It's very flexible. And once you start to practice it, you will notice you hear it in lots of jazz solos.
-
I do too. Maybe it should be called "The Carol Kaye Study Group" and make clear in the OP that--for now--"Pro's Jazz Phrases" is the focus..... Originally Posted by lawson-stone
-
Originally Posted by targuit
Just go to carolkaye.com, her website, and join the Forum. (It's free.)
I think she has a point about practicing in four keys. And these are fine. I just asked--nicely--why she chose these four. I thought there might be a reason that I hadn't realized. She could have just said, "Well, I had to choose four and why not these four?" Or even, "It's not important which four, just learn these lines." But she seemed to get so angry that I asked AT ALL. It left me thinking, "Boy, I'm not asking any more questions." (And I suspect some people reading her reply gulped and thought, 'Boy, remind me never to ask her anything.' I was originally a philsophy major and thought asking questions was part of the process.)Last edited by MarkRhodes; 04-14-2016 at 02:14 PM.
-
I just read that post on the carolkaye forum. Yep, she basically told you to shut up and play your guitar, lol. (maybe people have bothered her about this before or she was having a bad day?)
But yeah, I wondered why she chose those 4 specific keys too... glad you asked her first!
-
What's odd is that although I have exchanged many emails with Carol, my screen name on that Forum is not my own, so she doesn't know that person from Adam. She doesn't know if that person started playing guitar last year, last decade, or even longer ago. She doesn't know how well, or poorly, that person plays. Her response seemed over the top---and the sort of thing that might make others think twice before asking her a question. Originally Posted by Dave70
I just read that post on the carolkaye forum. Yep, she basically told you to shut up and play your guitar, lol. (maybe people have bothered her about this before or she was having a bad day?)
But yeah, I wondered why she chose those 4 specific keys too... glad you asked her first!
Let's go with the "having a bad day" theory. (You know, that was name of a Dweezil Zappa solo album, "Having A Bad Day.")Last edited by MarkRhodes; 04-14-2016 at 09:44 PM.
-
FWIW, this is from her "tips":
"G is a "sharp" key, in jazz and certainly in pop these days that has been mostly influenced by jazz chordal thinking, you play in mostly flat keys: F Bb Eb Ab Db and even Gb, the only sharp keys that are popular in pop is G and maybe D (some bossas are in the key of D), the rest are mainly country song and hard rock keys (for the open strings on guitars): A & E. And there again, maybe some bossas in the keys of A and E, but rarely. Most of the standards are written in the keys of C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, and G."
-
Originally Posted by boatheelmusic
I agree jazz is mostly in flat keys. As for the most popular jazz keys, Bb is THE rhythm changes key (and a popular key for blues too), so that's why I thought it would be one of the four she picked.
Joe Pass liked the key of G----I think many jazz guitarists have a blues in G up their sleeve. G lays out nicely on the guitar.
-
Me too- still working and reviewing all Carol's stuff. You can see how Joe Pass composed his lines round the chords he could hear in his head. And that's what she teaches. Once you have the basic phrases its then up to you to improvise your own lines, around the chord progressions. Jazz is mostly in flat keys because of the brass instruments used. Joe pass liked G major because he had a fuller range up the fretboard and could still use the open E.A. and D strings.(especially when solo chord melody) . Most of his exercises in his ( if I remember correctly)" Joe Pass Guitar Style " are in F Bb Eb and C minor . He was not too keen on E major or A major as he felt the drone effect of those two open strings would send the audience to sleep.
-
Joe thought a guitarist should always knows which notes are available around any chord grip one might use. He wasn't the first person to think of that, but he obviously put in a lot of work on it and you can see / hear the results in his playing. He talks about "chordal thinking" in his "Guitar Style" book, which is what Carol Kaye is all about. Originally Posted by jazzuki
-
I actually meant the Joe Pass Guitar Style merits a study group Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Reply With Quote
Rich Severson’s top 5 guitars.
Today, 03:49 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos