Jazz tone without a jazz box?

[Phelonious Ponk]

New guy here. With many years of rock, blues, country, etc. behind me, I've been working on standards for a solo act. Just rhythm, fills, maybe a few breaks over a looper, but my voice will carry the melody. This led to a desire for an archtop, then in my impatience the other day I created a patch on my modeling amp, a Fender Mustang 3, called "JazzAmp," and put flat wounds on my G&L ASAT Junior (chambered, no F hole, all mahogany, Tele shape). It's really a pretty convincing solo jazz tone, but I've still got archtop GAS. What will ah archtop get me that can't be obtained with good amp/guitar tone control? Will a carved top guitar really sound much different that laminated through an amp? And what do you think of the Eastmans? The 403s in particular...



Can they really be as good as they look for only $900? I know...go play one. A road trip is required, and booked. But a few expert opinions can't hurt either.

P

[docbop]

Jazz tone is a pretty subjective some like dark and muddy or flat wound's and a rolled off tone control to breaking glass like Grant Green and his P90's and everything in between. I'd say just find a tone you like if you're comfortable your playing will reflect it.

Eastman's I've come close to buy one many times and I think they are good bang for the buck guitars. The only bad I remember reading was some of the real early ones.

[cosmic gumbo]

I just throw a blanket over my amp and get early 70's Pat Martino tone with my tele.

[asf1187]

I have an Eastman AR503ce right now and I love it. I will say that I've had some real problems with feedback, but moving my position/the amp always fixes it. There was a AR403ce in the for sale section a while back for $600. If its still for sale, I'd definitely jump on that deal. That one has a laminated top, so it won't feed back as much. The cutaway makes it a bit uncomfortable playing past the 13th fret, but it's not too difficult. I assume as a solo act you won't go that high too often.

I think it's funny that right now I'm actually looking for an ASAT Special as an on-the go jazz guitar, because it does get annoying carrying around a case all the time. For inexpensive archtops, Eastmans are top notch. The neck is wider (nut width) than most, which makes playing chords very comfortable. I can't comment on the 403's acoustic tone, but my 503 sounds nice, and it's just as nice plugged in.\

edit: I would like to add that the finish is very easily damaged! I knocked into my music stand and now have a small scratch/dent on my guitar. Just something to be careful about.

[Phelonious Ponk]

I have an Eastman AR503ce right now and I love it. I will say that I've had some real problems with feedback, but moving my position/the amp always fixes it. There was a AR403ce in the for sale section a while back for $600. If its still for sale, I'd definitely jump on that deal. That one has a laminated top, so it won't feed back as much. The cutaway makes it a bit uncomfortable playing past the 13th fret, but it's not too difficult. I assume as a solo act you won't go that high too often.

I think it's funny that right now I'm actually looking for an ASAT Special as an on-the go jazz guitar, because it does get annoying carrying around a case all the time. For inexpensive archtops, Eastmans are top notch. The neck is wider (nut width) than most, which makes playing chords very comfortable. I can't comment on the 403's acoustic tone, but my 503 sounds nice, and it's just as nice plugged in.\

edit: I would like to add that the finish is very easily damaged! I knocked into my music stand and now have a small scratch/dent on my guitar. Just something to be careful about.

I do have a full band I play with as well, but if I wanted to use an archtop in that context, I'd buy a good ES 175 clone.

If you're looking at G&Ls (I've had 8. I was once obsessed ), don't overlook the Tributes. I have an Indonesian Tribute ASAT Deluxe (carved top, solid body, two humbuckers). All of my other G&Ls have been American, a couple have been custom shop limited runs, and while the woods aren't as nice, as an instrument I honestly believe that Tribute is in the same league.

Cost me $300 used, without a scratch on it.

P

[asf1187]

I do have a full band I play with as well, but if I wanted to use an archtop in that context, I'd buy a good ES 175 clone.

If you're looking at G&Ls (I've had 8. I was once obsessed ), don't overlook the Tributes. I have an Indonesian Tribute ASAT Deluxe (carved top, solid body, two humbuckers). All of my other G&Ls have been American, a couple have been custom shop limited runs, and while the woods aren't as nice, as an instrument I honestly believe that Tribute is in the same league.

Cost me $300 used, without a scratch on it.

P

The tributes are exactly what I'm looking at! Plenty of used ASAT Specials for around 300. It'd be a great guitar that I wouldn't mind scratching up.
For a 175 clone, Eastman actually has the 371 and 372. they're supposed to be really great guitars too. Maybe give those a shot too if you can.
Have you decided on a set humbucker? or are you considering floating pickups as well?

[Phelonious Ponk]

The tributes are exactly what I'm looking at! Plenty of used ASAT Specials for around 300. It'd be a great guitar that I wouldn't mind scratching up.
For a 175 clone, Eastman actually has the 371 and 372. they're supposed to be really great guitars too. Maybe give those a shot too if you can.
Have you decided on a set humbucker? or are you considering floating pickups as well?

I'll play the 371/2s while I'm there, for sure, but I like the look of the 403s. Yes, I would consider a carved top/floating pickup, but they're a bit out of my budget at the moment. If this proves to be a kind of guitar that I use a lot, I might upgrade at some point. Acoustic tone is not terribly important to me, though. Do you think the solid, unencumbered tops make a noticeable difference in the amplified tone?

P

[asf1187]

I'll play the 371/2s while I'm there, for sure, but I like the look of the 403s. Yes, I would consider a carved top/floating pickup, but they're a bit out of my budget at the moment. If this proves to be a kind of guitar that I use a lot, I might upgrade at some point. Acoustic tone is not terribly important to me, though. Do you think the solid, unencumbered tops make a noticeable difference in the amplified tone?

P

I really cant say from my experience because this is my first archtop. However everyone else seems to say so, and you can definitely hear a difference. Not sure if that has to do more with me comparing models.

Just try out lots of different ones. I'm happy with a humbucker, but for solo stuff I might want the clarity of a floating pickup.

[Phelonious Ponk]

I really cant say from my experience because this is my first archtop. However everyone else seems to say so, and you can definitely hear a difference. Not sure if that has to do more with me comparing models.

Just try out lots of different ones. I'm happy with a humbucker, but for solo stuff I might want the clarity of a floating pickup.

Thanks. When you look at the Tributes see if you can't try a few of the chambered ones. Not only does it give you significantly less weight, it's the perfect platform for late night/early morning practicing. Just enough volume to here well when it's in your lap, not enough to get through a closed door. My Junior is all mahogany, and chambered with no F holes. It's perfect for this purpose, and a great guitar plugged in. The big single coils that come on the Specials? And Junior? My favorite pickups ever. So clean, so fat...love those things.

P

[ESCC]

The truth is if you have GAS for an archtop, there is only one way that it will be alleviated, regardless of what responses you get here.

I hope you enjoy the new guitar.

[Just_Guild]

Consider the Godin Kingpin as well. They make a well respected jazz version.

[asf1187]

The truth is if you have GAS for an archtop, there is only one way that it will be alleviated, regardless of what responses you get here.

I hope you enjoy the new guitar.

this is the undeniable truth.

[asf1187]

Thanks. When you look at the Tributes see if you can't try a few of the chambered ones. Not only does it give you significantly less weight, it's the perfect platform for late night/early morning practicing. Just enough volume to here well when it's in your lap, not enough to get through a closed door. My Junior is all mahogany, and chambered with no F holes. It's perfect for this purpose, and a great guitar plugged in. The big single coils that come on the Specials? And Junior? My favorite pickups ever. So clean, so fat...love those things.

P

Thanks! I'll give it a shot. I'll be sure to let you know if I end up buying one!

[Phelonious Ponk]

The truth is if you have GAS for an archtop, there is only one way that it will be alleviated, regardless of what responses you get here.

I hope you enjoy the new guitar.

A realist, eh?

p

[Drumbler]

Basically, use the neck pickup and roll off the tone control on any guitar. You certainly don't need a jazzbox to play jazz.

I think a little overdrive like Kenny Burrell uses (?) sounds really good too. It is like coming with a woman.

[mr quick]

Thing is, you can get a Jazz tone from any guitar with the right tweaks. A proper archtop jazzbox, just plug n' play.

[andyb]

I think you can get a great jazz tone from a solid body guitar with the right tweaks.

For a solo act you would defiantly look the part with a Jazz box and a old tube amp, its not just the sound it is also about the vibe you put out.

I bet you would get more gigs that way.

[Cunamara]

Is it time for the obligatory <insert name here> post mentioning famous jazz musicians playing non-archtop guitars and getting a great tone? Pat Martino, Ed Bickert, Emily Remler, Clint Strong, Ulf Wakenius, etc. It's easy to get precious about the "jazz guitar tone." I do it a lot. Take your guitar and amp, play with the knobs until you get a tone you like, and then play some jazz. What you play is more important than whether the tone knob is at 6 or 6.25.