how important is it to sound "modern"?

[oldsouth]

Hmm, sometimes I want to hear music with melody, rhythm, sophisticated musicianship and intelligent lyrics, sung by a person who has spent as much time learning to sing as a good musician spends learning to play his instrument... and sometimes I want to hear music like it is commonly played in the 21st century, for people who grew up on MTV, pop radio, American Idol and the Kardashians... people who generate "beats" with computers and think grade school rhyming or "rap" about killing and rape is music .... actually, no the latter never happens.

Please sound "modern" if you think there is anything worthwhile in it, and enjoy it... profit from it if you can. Although, "there is nothing new under the sun", to each his own. As Jefferson said, "if it does not break my arm or pick my pocket..." frankly, I don't care. A tree must have roots though, and I would urge you to listen to the music that came before... even if you do not appreciate it, before you dismiss it. I believe that your life will be enriched as mine has been. If ignorance is your choice though, remember that conscious ignorance is a valid definition of idiocy.

But, of course, I reference "lyrics that sucks" like , "Now the purple dusk of twilight time steals across the meadows of my heart, high in the sky the stars climb, reminding me that we're apart. You wander down the lane and far away, leaving me a song that will not die. Love is now the twilight of yesterday, a melody of days gone by. Sometimes I wonder why I spend the lonely nights dreaming of a song. The melody haunts my reverie, and once again I am with you.. when our love was new and each kiss n inspiration. But that was long ago and now my consolation is written in the stardust of a song."

[Stevebol]

^^^

I never read the lyrics to that before. That's nice.

Just the way someone sings a simple line can have a real effect. I love the way Fiona Apple sings "After You've Gone" when she say's, "You'll miss the bestest girl you ever had...." It's not even a real word and she made 'bestest' sound like, I don't know. I loved the way she said it.

[oldsouth]

I like Fiona Apple... I like Adel and Ravi Shankar's daughter too - don't mean to sound like a stick in the mud. I grew up on Robert Gordon and the Stray Cats.... Velvet Underground, Television and Richard Hell (not in that order). I am incredibly grateful though that family members, like my grandfather who was a country music promoter in the '40s and 50s, my uncle who was a blues and early rock and r&b dj (friend of James Brown!), another uncle who was a jazz clarinetist, another uncle who played 70s style bluegrass banjo and was a Beatles fan... and my mother who was an Allman Brothers, Janis Joplin and Motown fan, took the time to share the music they loved with me and began a journey that has really brought a lot of joy and meaning to my life. If you stop to think about it, we are heirs to an amazing legacy of western (and beyond) music. I do, however, despair, that the centuries long chain of music that was developed, passed down, revolutionized, passed down again and so on for so many generations, seems to have broken sometime in the past 10 - 20 yrs, due to the modern music industry, the termination of folk traditions and the failure of modern education to teach music and music history in schools in any real, meaningful way in most areas. Obviously, each generation has a natural arrogance regarding things "old fashioned", but education should dispel that immaturity.

[oldsouth]

BTW, that is Hoagy Carmichael's "Stardust". He also wrote "Georgia" and many other great tunes. The songs of that era (1920 - 50 approximately) aren't called the American Songbook, or the jazz Standards for nothing. Most musicians and historians see them as the apex of western music.... much like Shakespeare was to English literature. The fact that many of the best songwriters were European Jews and that many of the best musicians and singers were black or white southern or mid-westerners... or from the poorer neighborhoods in NY, made the music uniquely American.

[redwater]

This is true.


Are you so sure about that? Making a living means able to pay down a mortage, have full medical insurance for your family, and be able to put away enough money for retirement. It's worth noting here that when you are self employed, you do not have an employer covering your medical insurance or contributing to your retirement fund, it's all on you. I seriously doubt the validity of your statement. I do know guys who are able to rent an apartment and eat, just from playing music, but not "make a living" by what we traditionally consider that to mean.

Yes I am sure, for me it worked out fine. Playing (30´s Swing) and teaching feeds me and my Family, sometimes is NGD. Playing alone hardly makes a living, you´re right.

[Jimmy blue note]

Modern schmodern. Who was it that said "there's only two kinds of jazz, modern and schmodern."?
Mmmm maybe I got this quote wrong.
Anyway, people will always argue about what's new, but the classics, they will always be great.

[Stevebol]

^^^
lol

[eddy b.]

I can count on one hand the number of times in my gigging life someone has come to me and requested,Methany,Scofield,Frisell,Bernstein,Mehld au,Mahavishnu,Bad Plus,MMW,Soulive etc. However I have had many requests for Always,Stardust,Stars Fell on Alabama,Georgia etc. but to answer the original question I think the best fastest way to learn is to imitate the players you like or want to sound like. Me I want to sound like a cross of Ahmad Jamal,BillEvans, Stevie Ray Vaughan,Count Basie,J.S.Bach,Ed Bickert and George Benson....good luck with that ha...

[oldsouth]

A few folks liked the video I included on a discussion of Autumn Leaves, so I figured I'd put one here for Stardust.... seems we have a few Nat King Cole fans here! No wonder, Oscar Moore was a great jazz guitarist (though, not on this recording, as far as I know). Nat played piano beautifully and had such wonderfully articulate, understated vocals... he had a way of making each word a perfect jewel that could almost stand on its own:

[Krah13]

I think that you have to study and transcribe the material that you like. If you like Wes, make transcriptions of Wes. If you like Kurt Rosenwinkel, listen and make transcriptions of his recordings.
Apart from this, there are certain elements that you can steal by transcribing stuff from certain periods of jazz. While I was trying to transcribe some Pat Martino stuff, I get used to a staightforward eighth feel.
On the other hand the transcription of some classic solos of Miles Davis made me think more in terms of rests and space in my solos.
Just a thought.