Fingerstyle questions

[elixzer]

I always want to know the best ways of learning, and so this is what this question is about. I am learning Bossa Nova fiingerplay rhythms, and like this video for helping me, and recommend it for others into this too:

My question is this: Note how he has us changing chords from Am7 to Am6 and then moving position to play Gm7 to Gm6. They are lovely chords and everything, but do you think it fruitful to learn fingerstyle, and increase speed, when also maybe struggling to change the chords etc? Would it be better to have just one chord, just so you can focus on the right hand?

What are peoples views about this?

[m78w]

I would say it's cool to stay on one chord until you are comfortable and then move forward.

As well, what they don't show in the video is the most important part of playing Brazilian music, the accents.

If you are working on this exercise, just do the first chord and play the upbeats, the chords that fall between the beats, a little louder than the rest. This will give it more of a Brazilian swing feel.

Good luck!

[Romanello]

In my experience of classical guitar, usually they are parallel exercises. When I study a new tune, I isolate every difficult position change of left hand and I practise it individually; the same thing for particular movements of fingers in right hand. Only when problems comes to solution I mix all playing the tune. This is a general method in the study of classical guitar and I think it's applicable also for fingerpicking style.
Bye

[elixzer]

I would say it's cool to stay on one chord until you are comfortable and then move forward.

As well, what they don't show in the video is the most important part of playing Brazilian music, the accents.

If you are working on this exercise, just do the first chord and play the upbeats, the chords that fall between the beats, a little louder than the rest. This will give it more of a Brazilian swing feel.

Good luck!

I cannot dig what you mean. Do you know any video which could show me, or could you do one please? If you can't, no worries, but I thought I'd ask. I don't want to get used to doing it, and then find it coulda been done more Brazilian lol

[fep]

Matt is saying to accent (play a bit louder than the other notes), accent the upbeats.

I think this video has some authentic sounding bossa.

[whatswisdom]

One Note Samba is a great tune to work on. It's got everything. Big contrast between the A and B sections. The chord progession is so beautiful. Some easy parts; some tough. I'm doing a chord melody arrangement. Matt is right on about the accents. Best way to get the feel is to listen to lots of interpretations--Getz, etc. Easy to find plenty of examples. It's all over the place on youtube.

[m78w]

this is a good one by a Brazilian guitarist living in Chicago

[elixzer]

HEY, thanks LOTS for introducing me to Emily Remler sho seems to be showing genuine Bossa Nova! I had doubts about the link I gave. In looking for help with this a short while ago, first video I saw of another guitarist was this guy who in his video description said he was a Classical guitarist who has become very into Brazilian guitar. But he would show the rhythms at advanced tempo and expect learners to just get it apparently. I commented about it and he replied that he is going to go slower but it will take a while for him to make any videos. So when I found the video above I at first thought it good because he is just the opposite. But at back of my mind I was wanting to show it to that guy or a Brazilian Bossa Nova player to see what they thought. So it is interesting to find my reservations may have been right.

I remember in the last phase of my guitar learning, I was trying to get into Delta Blues, and there too is the skill of somehow having thumb and fingers doing different things, if you will. it freaked me then because I really struggled with it. But I am gonna stick with this

[elixzer]

at 7:25 of the first video where she shows to go to G7(13) I struggle to get that chord, and I dont understand how she does also, because according to the tab her M finger's supposed to be in same fret as I finger but you can see it aint.WT...F

[mr. beaumont]

Worry less about what things look like and more about playing the chord as it's called...looks can be decieving, but a G13 will have an F in it...one of the standard voicings is 3 x 3 4 5 x, fingered 1 x 2 3 4 x...so as you can see, yes, the index and middle are indeed at the same fret.

This where the whole "knowing what notes are in a chord" thing becomes crucial...watching people fingers can be a fruitless quest. And fruitless quests can lead to scurvy.

[GodinFan]

And fruitless quests can lead to scurvy.

A quoteworthy line if ever there was one!

[elixzer]

Worry less about what things look like and more about playing the chord as it's called...looks can be decieving, but a G13 will have an F in it...one of the standard voicings is 3 x 3 4 5 x, fingered 1 x 2 3 4 x...so as you can see, yes, the index and middle are indeed at the same fret.

This where the whole "knowing what notes are in a chord" thing becomes crucial...watching people fingers can be a fruitless quest. And fruitless quests can lead to scurvy.

No Mr B, I am afraid that dont make sense to me. One of the tabs
1 x 2 3 4 x is not at all the frets she is in, and I would have problems with that one also. I cannot see her doing 1x234x if you are meaning 1= first fret 6th string? I can see her name that chord and you can see the tab also, and her fingers dont match the finger placings for the tab, because her M finger is not in same fret as I finger, or doesn't seem to me to be though the chord strummed does sound like the chord so named---hence 'W T F'

but a better point is that if I am trying to learn this deceptively 'easy' Bossa Nova, I do not need an 'impossible' -for me-chord, so that I am focussing on that and not the riddim

[mr. beaumont]

1x234x is the fingering for the chord, not the frets.

[GodinFan]

A point worth stating here: in Emily's video, and in many other videos I've seen, fingers may be right on top of frets, giving the appearance of being in the next portion of the fingerboard.

Go with the sound and supplied chord diagram.

Emily demos the chord change from the m9 to the 13 quite nicely.

[elixzer]

1x234x is the fingering for the chord, not the frets.

As far as I know when you write tabs it is like that, and that would mean first fret 6th string--miss 5th string string--2nd fret 4th string, etc. I am not aware of your meaning before. its a new one on me

[whatswisdom]

No Mr B, I am afraid that dont make sense to me. 1 x 2 3 4 x is not at all the frets she is in, and I would have problems with that one also. I cannot see her doing 1x234x if you are meaning 1= first fret 6th string?

Mr. B has clearly listed fret and finger positions. Dude, I'm not being rude, negative or trying to antagonize. I'm not the greatest guitarist either. What I do know is that you're wasting a lot of time and hitting your head against the wall. Find a good teacher and take a few lessons. It's unbelievable the amount of posts you are making and yet seem to be oblivious to the generous and helpful comments from some of the knowledgeable player/teachers on the forum. You will benefit greatly from some guided instruction from a pro. Just trying to help. Best of luck to you...

[elixzer]

here we go agin. I am going to ignore these provocations. I am not happy about this at all because I encourage people, including myself to ask questions, and I think that this bullying is VERY BAD for these forums in deed, (I am already extremely angery from the last affair in the thtread that was closed) but If i rise to your bait it all becomes a flaming match again. I cannot delete you from my thread--which I wish I would (to you whatswisdom) so all I can do is ignore you and others on my case and carry ON ASKING QUESTIONS WHEN I NEED TO, and dont you dare tell me what I can and cannot do. And if i see you do this to anyone else I will defend them. Now stop following me the f around.

[mr. beaumont]

As far as I know when you write tabs it is like that, and that would mean first fret 6th string--miss 5th string string--2nd fret 4th string, etc. I am not aware of your meaning before. its a new one on me

Elixzer, I wrote the fret positions first, then said the fingering was 1 x 2 3 4 x

This is a very common way of doing things--you can usually assume the numbers mean frets, and then the person might suggest fingering too, but they'll say that, like I did.

There's really nothing to be angry about here, just don't doubt folks when they're bothering to help--for the most part I have seen you given no misinformation.

I second the idea of lessons...even if it's just a few to get you on track with a lot of the "language" guitarists use...they're not that expensive if you look at what you spend money on in the course of a week...at least that's the way I see it...heck, if I gave up downloading music on iTunes and getting coffee on the run, I'd have enough money for a few good skype lessons with a top notch player rather quickly.

[whatswisdom]

...even if it's just a few to get you on track with a lot of the "language" guitarists use...they're not that expensive if you look at what you spend money on in the course of a week...at least that's the way I see it...heck, if I gave up downloading music on iTunes and getting coffee on the run, I'd have enough money for a few good skype lessons with a top notch player rather quickly.

Right on. Elixer, there's tons of options even via this forum. Matt Warnock's stuff is of the highest quality and I think he even offers online lessons. That's just one of many ways to go. IMHO, nothing beats sitting down with a good pro who is out to do nothing but help you play better. The lessons I took years ago with a great teacher have never been regretted. Plus, when you go to a teacher you are more likely to practise with focus--working on assigned tunes, etc. My posts are not meant to provoke but to help a fellow player. It's plain to see your frustration. This could be eliminated with some guidance by a good instructor. I'd rather have someone be honest even if it's hard to take. If you're stuck on one chord on a tune for days at a time you need to rethink your strategy.

[Dad3353]

here we go agin...

Good evening, Elixzer...

Yes, indeed, another attempt to help you, despite your prickliness. Your most recent reply was posted only 5 minutes after Whatwisdom's. May I humbly suggest that you take a bit more time to thoroughly read and assimilate the contents before blasting off on a misconception..? Upon objective reading, you should agree that his post merited none of the cutting response that you gave it. I can quite understand a touch of frustration; this, imho, does not excuse reactions expressed in this fashion.
No, I have no lessons to give you, you are a free agent, and will assume the consequences of your perceived temperament here. I would like to imagine that you are able to see how better to help yourself.
Hope this helps; respect.

[NSJ]

No Mr B, I am afraid that dont make sense to me. One of the tabs
1 x 2 3 4 x is not at all the frets she is in, and I would have problems with that one also. I cannot see her doing 1x234x if you are meaning 1= first fret 6th string? I can see her name that chord and you can see the tab also, and her fingers dont match the finger placings for the tab, because her M finger is not in same fret as I finger, or doesn't seem to me to be though the chord strummed does sound like the chord so named---hence 'W T F'

but a better point is that if I am trying to learn this deceptively 'easy' Bossa Nova, I do not need an 'impossible' -for me-chord, so that I am focussing on that and not the riddim

With all due respect, I would venture to guess that 90-95% of the readers here on these boards can recognize a G13 chord with the G in the root. The fact that you are having trouble with this, lends me to recommend some remedial lessons on elementary music, basic functional musical literacy and theory, how chords are formed, elementary harmony, major and minor scales, open versus close voiced chords, the differences between a piano and guitar, and, most importantly, note location on the fingerboard. That is a million times more important than fingerings.

I will always remember my teacher's diatribe against bad guitar teachers, he calls 'em "put yer finger here and put yer finger there" crowd. Which is not to say that fingerings are not important, just that their form and function are derivative to music and musical ends.

[elixzer]

Elixzer, I wrote the fret positions first, then said the fingering was 1 x 2 3 4 x

This is a very common way of doing things--you can usually assume the numbers mean frets, and then the person might suggest fingering too, but they'll say that, like I did.

well thanks for explaining that, but like I said, it is not surprising I was confused because that is the very first time I have come across fingerings being explained like that. Thus any learner should have the freedom to express this. Agreed?

There's really nothing to be angry about here, just don't doubt folks when they're bothering to help--for the most part I have seen you given no misinformation.

Angry? I am freakin fuming with that person who keeps coming on to me ahnd telling me what I should and shouldn't do at the forums, and I am afraid you supporting that behaviour--you being moderator--doesn't check it. it is not a question about me insinuating I am being given misinformation, but that when I am unsure of things I tend to ask questions. I am funny that way. At least here I am seen to be it appears. This thread is called 'starting out' and surely this IS the place to bnot be afraid OF asking questions however naive they may seem, and if not understanding even when explained to and asking without being talked to with disrespect.

I second the idea of lessons...even if it's just a few to get you on track with a lot of the "language" guitarists use...they're not that expensive if you look at what you spend money on in the course of a week...at least that's the way I see it...heck, if I gave up downloading music on iTunes and getting coffee on the run, I'd have enough money for a few good skype lessons with a top notch player rather quickly.

I cannot afford lessons, and that is that. I really do not want to be continuously hounded about this. Sometimes I wonder if other people are aware whats going on in the world today with cuts and whatnot.
If a person tells me they cannot afford guitar lessons--which I have here more than a few times, I do not keep asking them to take them.
I DO know guitar terms but not all of them obviously, and forums like this can help. Even if I had four guitar lessons spaced out over several months, I would not know-it-all. Hey, dude, I bet theres stuff YOU may not know. thought of that?

[elixzer]

. My posts are not meant to provoke but to help a fellow player. It's plain to see your frustration. This could be eliminated with some guidance by a good instructor. I'd rather have someone be honest even if it's hard to take. If you're stuck on one chord on a tune for days at a time you need to rethink your strategy.

It's unbelievable the amount of posts you are making and yet seem to be oblivious to the generous and helpful comments from some of the knowledgeable player/teachers on the forum.

That is not provoking, you talking down to me like that, and the other trolling I suffered from you in my previous thread?...

I do things my way. I feel that your way is not my way, and so don't understand when you know it winds me up you continue.

I HAVE the intiative to BE where I am with what I am doing right now. This thread was not for more drama about other stuff---unwelcome judgments from you that I am not doing what your imagine I should be doing, but when this happens I have to then stop trying to understand what I want and analyze stuff for you to defend myself against your misguided judgments. Which takes time up I could be practising, and causes unnecessary drama.

So here goes then:

I started this thread because from my own initiative, I want to learn Bossa Nova, and Fingerstyle. Yes?

I had previously found video where the guitarist showing me the Bossa Nova, it was too fast for me to get.

So I then find a slower one, and I am learning it, and was using metronome--which i linked in OP. But I was concerned that using those chords would take focus away from the learning to advance the tempo.

With me?

So I think, hmmm I know I will go to jazzguitar forum--a cool place where real friendly musicians hang out all willing to help learners in respecful manner, and I will start a thread and ask my questions. And I always am aware that others LIKE me will get benefit from these types of threads too. And do not want them cluttered with other stuff.

.........................so, I do that, and am told by a guy I had met in another thread who said he had gone to Fingerstyle (was really inspired by that) and I invited him to checkout my thread, and he informed me that the lesson for Bossa Nova was not that cool So there you go---my initiative getting results. What dya know?

So then someone kindly introduces me to Emily who claims to be doing genu-INE Brazilian Bossa Nova. I am of course very interested! But then she does that chord, and now I am again not focussed on the rhythm--which is tricky-- but worrying about that fingering especially as her fingers do not match the tab, and I ASK A QUESTION, and as I am exploring this with an online teacher, Mr B, you butt in as usual making comments about what I should do--even though I am still upset about your interaction with me in a thread before.

Not cool.

That is just spelling things out to you hoping you see where I am coming from, and not an invitation for a discussion. Just please let me and others have the freedom to learn as we do. We are not doing any harm, I promise. In fact for so-called 'slow learners' it can be encouraging.

[elixzer]

With all due respect, I would venture to guess that 90-95% of the readers here on these boards can recognize a G13 chord with the G in the root. The fact that you are having trouble with this, lends me to recommend some remedial lessons on elementary music, basic functional musical literacy and theory, how chords are formed, elementary harmony, major and minor scales, open versus close voiced chords, the differences between a piano and guitar, and, most importantly, note location on the fingerboard. That is a million times more important than fingerings.

I will always remember my teacher's diatribe against bad guitar teachers, he calls 'em "put yer finger here and put yer finger there" crowd. Which is not to say that fingerings are not important, just that their form and function are derivative to music and musical ends.

I am not a guitar teacher of course, but i do, believe it or not, know othere stuff you may not be familiar with, and even if it being painted that I am too passionate or 'prickly' or whatever by some, personally when people do not understand things I am very patient and do not try and put them down.
That chord I find impossible.
She SHOWS the tab.
IF I see that tab in a book, I will assume my fingers go int the places numbered there.
In the video her middle finger does not. So I have right to be non-plussed.
it doesn't make any sense what is being said.
if that is because I am starting out--so be it. I am just being honest.
A learner should never be made to feel guilty for being inquisitive and admitting they don't understand an answer, because that can intimidate them from learning---fear of ridicule. A good teacher does not say go and read a book on it, but with patience tries to get them to click what they themselves understand.
When people don't understand stuff I know I don't take it as a sleight against me as a teacher but a challenge to help understanding.

[whatswisdom]

A good teacher does not say go and read a book on it, but with patience tries to get them to click what they themselves understand.

+1