what are your favourite ways of doing a 2-5-1?

[ten left thumbs]

Just assuming everyone does these chords in the 5 positions (sitting, standing, reclining, cross-legged on the floor, and lying in bed), but are there particular combinations of voicings that you find most ergonomic and you keep coming back to?

Does everyone use the same? But perhaps without knowing it? I'm thinking there's probably some rootless combo on the middle strings that's dead easy to play - just that you need to hunt to find it.

I'd be grateful if we could keep to the majors here.

[whatswisdom]

are there particular combinations of voicings that you find most ergonomic and you keep coming back to?

I like playing them as arps, with the extensions, in all keys from one position--especially 1st position. Great for left hand workout and fretboard note awareness.

[ten left thumbs]

I like playing them as arps, with the extensions, in all keys from one position--especially 1st position. Great for left hand workout and fretboard note awareness.

For playing as chords, is there a set of voicings you settle on? I was hoping there might be some chord shapes someone can point me to.

So, I know for example on the piano I go either 3579, 7936, 3569, or I go 7936, 3679, 7935 depending on the key and the pitch, and I hardly need to move a muscle from one chord to the next.

On guitar I'm very much stuck on learning this with the root on the 6th string, and that with the root on the 5th string, but probably the friendliest way on both ear and fingers is miles away from the root, in the middle somewhere.

(But I want you to know I do other things for left hand workout and fretboard note awareness. )

[fep]

Em7 A7 Dmaj7

x7575X 5x565x x5467x

x7578X 5x568x x5467x

Em11 A13 Dmaj9

x7778X 5x567x x5465x

Em7 A11-A7b9 Dmaj7

x7575x 5x543x-5x532x x5422x

Em7 A7b9 Dmaj7

xx2433 xx2323 xx0222

Em9 Eb9 Dmaj9

x7577X x6566x x5465x

Em11 Eb9#11 D69

x75775 x65665 x54455

Em7 A7b9 Dadd9

xx978.10 xx8989 xx797.10

Got to go, that's enough for now.

[ten left thumbs]

Em7 A7 Dmaj7

x7575X 5x565x x5467x

...
Got to go, that's enough for now.

Thanks fep, love the Dmaj7 here!

Now, how do you do the 5x5... business - is that with your thumb on the 6th string? Fraid my thumb doesn't reach that far.

Edit: Scratches head. OK, hows about:

x 8 10 9 10 x
x 8 9 9 10 x
x 7 7 7 8 x

for C?

If someone has a moment, I'd be grateful for a second opinion. My ears can play tricks.

[whatswisdom]

is that with your thumb on the 6th string?

No thumb. Fingering: 1243. (root, seventh, third, fifth)

[CHORD]

||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]

[RyanM]

As an exercise, I like practicing it as a descending voice-led pattern, working through the drop-2 inversions on the top 4 strings, then middle 4, then Drop-3 inversions with bottom note on the 6th string.

e.g.
in Cmajor, start with:
x.x.12.14.13.13. (D-7, root position)
x.x.12.12.12.13. (G7, 3rd inversion)
x.x.10.12.12.12. (Cmaj7, root position)
x.x.10.12.10.12. (A-7, 1st inversion)

The next one would be:
x.x.10.10.10.10. (D-7)
x.x.9.10.8.10. (G7)
x.x.9.9.8.8. (Cmaj7)
x.x.7.9.8.8. (A-7)

Continuing on:
x.x.7.7.6.8. (D-7)
x.x.5.7.6.7. (G7)
x.x.5.5.5.7. (Cmaj7)
x.x.5.5.5.5. (A-7)

The last set:
xx3535 (D-7)
xx3433 (G7)
xx2413 (CMaj7)
xx2213 (A-7)


Edit: from there you could keep going on the next string set:
x5756x (D-7, root position)
x5546x (G7, 2nd inversion)
x3545x (Cmaj7, root pos.)
x3525x (A-7, 1st inv.)

Then finally,
x3323x (D-7, 3rd inv.)
x2303x (G7, 1st inv.)
x2201x (CMaj7, 3rd inv.)
x0201x (A-7, root pos.)




Then, do the same thing again, but move the note on the high-e string to the low-E string to give you the drop-3 inversions.

For example, this:
x.x.12.14.13.13. (D-7, root position drop-2)
x.x.12.12.12.13. (G7, 2nd inversion drop-2)
x.x.10.12.12.12. (Cmaj7, root position drop-2)
x.x.10.12.10.12. (A-7, 1st inversion drop-2)

becomes:

13.x.12.14.13.x (D-7, 1st inversion Drop-3)
13.x.12.12.12.x (G7, 3rd inversion Drop-3)
12.x.10.12.12.x (Cmaj7, 1st inversion Drop-3)
12.x.10.12.10.x (A-7, 2nd inversion Drop-3)



And then take the pattern from the top four strings and transpose it to the middle four strings.
i.e. start with,
x.15.15.14.15.x
x.14.15.12.15.x
x.14.14.12.13.x
x.12.14.12.13.x
if you can reach it, if not start one inversion lower and play this one in the open position.

(if you want, you could then take the middle drop-2 chords and move the note on the 4th string to the high-e to give you the drop-3 inversions with the bottom note on the 5th string... but I don't think it's really necessary... you could also do the drop-2 set on the bottom four strings, but those aren't very useful at all)


Then do all of the above in the other 11 keys! Also, make sure you know what the chord tones are, the positions you are in, etc. because this is good practice to be able to see the chords wherever you are on the neck.


These are just the "Platonic forms" of the chords; you can then start subbing 9ths for roots, 13th for 5ths, etc.


(*also, you can do the same exercise, but playing the arpeggios while visualizing these chord shapes--either the full arpeggio in that position or just outlining the chord shapes (e.g. top 4 strings). Although, in my personal system, there are 5 arpeggio positions, and 4 chord inversions, so they don't exactly line up perfectly)

[ten left thumbs]

Thanks whatswisdom, I know that chord!

OK, fep, this is liquid gold, one quick question:

Em7 A7b9 Dmaj7

xx2433 xx2323 xx0333

.

For that Dmaj is that meant to be

xx0222?

[ten left thumbs]

As an exercise, I like practicing it as a descending voice-led pattern, working through the drop-2 inversions on the top 4 strings, then middle 4, then Drop-3 inversions with bottom note on the 6th string.

Thanks Ryan for replying. A lot of that went straight over my head, but I appreciate the time you took replying. I get the chords. I'm curious - why do you go to the Am7 at the end?

[RyanM]

Thanks Ryan for replying. A lot of that went straight over my head, but I appreciate the time you took replying. I get the chords. I'm curious - why do you go to the Am7 at the end?

It's just to create movement, to make it a 4 bar pattern. You could just ignore it and hang on the Cmaj7 instead. Am7 is the vi chord, which leads back to the ii. You could also play it as an A7.

A-7 could also be called C major 6 (C6).

If my post is confusing just ignore the terms drop-2, drop-3, etc. because those are just the specific names for the voicings.

[ten left thumbs]

Got it Ryan, thanks.

Please know that I ask this with the greatest respect for your practice schedule and the time you have taken replying. But, that is an incredible amount of work you go to. (I mean, that could take me years to learn). Isn't that an awful lot of work for what are, at heart, quite boring voicings?

I mean this in the nicest possible way, I realise at the end you mention substituting notes for extensions.

I suppose I'm just a little surprised as, at the piano, rootless is they key to finding something comfortable that sounds great, and is easy to play. Everything guitar-wise seems somehow very rooted in roots. Even when the roots aren't actually there, they are close by.

[RyanM]

It might be easier to read like this:


Top four strings, drop-2 voicings:

x.x.12.14.13.13. (D-7, root position)
x.x.12.12.12.13. (G7, 3rd inversion)
x.x.10.12.12.12. (Cmaj7, root position)
x.x.10.12.10.12. (A-7, 1st inversion)

x.x.10.10.10.10. (D-7, 3rd inv.)
x.x.9.10.8.10. (G7, 1st inv.)
x.x.9.9.8.8. (Cmaj7, 3rd inv.)
x.x.7.9.8.8. (A-7, root pos.)

x.x.7.7.6.8. (D-7, 2nd)
x.x.5.7.6.7. (G7, root)
x.x.5.5.5.7. (Cmaj7, 2nd)
x.x.5.5.5.5. (A-7, 3rd)

xx3535 (D-7, 1st)
xx3433 (G7, 3rd)
xx2413 (CMaj7, 1st)
xx2213 (A-7, 2nd)


Drop-2 voicings, middle four strings:

x.15.15.14.15.x (D-7, 3rd)
x.14.15.12.15.x (G7, 1st)
x.14.14.12.13.x (Cmaj7, 3rd)
x.12.14.12.13.x (A-7, root)

x.12.12.10.13.x (D-7, 2nd)
x.10.12.10.12.x (G7, root)
x.10.10.9.12.x (Cmaj7, 2nd)
x.10.10.9.10.x (A-7, 3rd)

x.8.10.7.10.x (D-7, 1st)
x.8.9.7.8.x (G7, 3rd)
x.7.9.5.8.x (CMaj7, 1st)
x.7.7.5.8.x (A-7, 2nd)

x5756x (D-7, root)
x5546x (G7, 2nd)
x3545x (Cmaj7, root)
x3525x (A-7, 1st)

x3323x (D-7, 3rd)
x2303x (G7, 1st)
x2201x (CMaj7, 3rd)
x0201x (A-7, root)


Drop-3 voicings, bottom note on 6th string:

13.x.12.14.13.x (D-7, 1st)
13.x.12.12.12.x (G7, 3rd)
12.x.10.12.12.x (Cmaj7, 1st)
12.x.10.12.10.x (A-7, 2nd)

10.x.10.10.10.x (D-7, root)
10.x.9.10.8.x (G7, 2nd)
8.x.9.9.8.x (Cmaj7, root)
8.x.7.9.8.x (A-7, 1st)

8.x.7.7.6.x (D-7, 3rd)
7.x.5.7.6.x (G7, 1st)
7.x.5.5.5.x (Cmaj7, 3rd)
5.x.5.5.5.x (A-7, root)

5x353x (D-7, 2nd)
3x343x (G7, root)
3x241x (CMaj7, 2nd)
3x221x (A-7, 3rd)


You're right, some of it is quite boring. This is more about learning the neck and positions, so that you can find the voicings anywhere, and so you can grab any melody note on top, or any bass note on the bottom, of any chord. (And it's really not that hard--it's just 4 inversions, transposed to different string sets!)

I realize you're looking for 'hip' voicings, so this may be the wrong thread for this kind of thing... but I'll leave this here anyways, for others reading the thread.


P.S. This book is where you'll find more than you'll ever want to know about rootless voicings.
It uses the approach I outlined above (Drop-2 inversions); the next step is to play off the third of each chord... e.g. play Fmaj7 over D, B-7(b5) over G, E-7 over C. This will give you rootless 9th voicings. Then it goes on from there.
e.g.
x.8.10.9.10.x (Fmaj7... sing a D bass note = Dmin9)
x.8.9.7.10.x (B-7(b5)... sing a G bass note = G9)
x.7.9.7.8.x (E-7... sing a C bass note = CMaj9)

[fep]

Thanks whatswisdom, I know that chord!

OK, fep, this is liquid gold, one quick question:



For that Dmaj is that meant to be

xx0222?

Oops

yes xxo222, good catch. I'll go edit and change it.

[fep]

Thanks fep, love the Dmaj7 here!

Now, how do you do the 5x5... business - is that with your thumb on the 6th string? Fraid my thumb doesn't reach that far.

Edit: Scratches head. OK, hows about:

x 8 10 9 10 x
x 8 9 9 10 x
x 7 7 7 8 x

for C?

If someone has a moment, I'd be grateful for a second opinion. My ears can play tricks.

Not my thumb, as was said above. I usually play chords with my fingers not with a pick, (unless Leavitt is watching).

x 8 10 9 10 x = Dm9(no root) = Fmaj7
x 8 9 9 10 x = G13 (no root)
x 7 7 7 8 x = C69 (no root)

It's good, and sounds hip.

[ten left thumbs]

It might be easier to read like this:




I realize you're looking for 'hip' voicings, so this may be the wrong thread for this kind of thing... but I'll leave this here anyways, for others reading the thread.


P.S. This book is where you'll find more than you'll ever want to know about rootless voicings.
It uses the approach I outlined above (Drop-2 inversions); the next step is to play off the third of each chord... e.g. play Fmaj7 over D, B-7(b5) over G, E-7 over C. This will give you rootless 9th voicings. Then it goes on from there.
e.g.
x.8.10.9.10.x (Fmaj7... sing a D bass note = Dmin9)
x.8.9.7.10.x (B-7(b5)... sing a G bass note = G9)
x.7.9.7.8.x (E-7... sing a C bass note = CMaj9)

Thankyou Ryan for typing all that out. I'll print it out and add it to my folder. Looks like a good book, thanks for the tip. There is so much to learn.

[ten left thumbs]

Not my thumb, as was said above. I usually play chords with my fingers not with a pick, (unless Leavitt is watching).

x 8 10 9 10 x = Dm9(no root) = Fmaj7
x 8 9 9 10 x = G13 (no root)
x 7 7 7 8 x = C69 (no root)

It's good, and sounds hip.

Got it, thanks. Interesting about the fingers.

[Nuff Said]

This is the classic and easiest Major 2-5-1, using only 3rds and 7ths, works great with a full band.

x.x.3.5.x.x. (D-7)
x.x.3.4.x.x. (G7)
x.x.2.4.x.x. (Cmaj7)

Nuff

[JakeAcci]

If I'm comping behind a melodic instrument I try very hard to listen to the people I'm playing with. In the general sense I try to play something that fits the harmony and gels well with the ensemble in terms of style, feel, dynamics, etc. I try (and often fail) at comping a melodic line that compliments what the soloist is doing and that responds and interacts well with their phrasing and note choices.

The size of the voicing, the top note, the type of attack, the rhythms, etc, are all determined by the above.

Only point I'd want to emphasis is that we all should remember that when we're comping the top note of each voicing is creating a melodic line. That line should be a compliment to what the soloist is doing, or at least lay down a nice bed for them to play over.

[ten left thumbs]

This is the classic and easiest Major 2-5-1, using only 3rds and 7ths, works great with a full band.

x.x.3.5.x.x. (D-7)
x.x.3.4.x.x. (G7)
x.x.2.4.x.x. (Cmaj7)

Nuff

Hey, that's great.

I suppose if your bass playing is sneezing you could play:

x.5.3.5.x.x
x.4.3.4.x.x.
x.3.2.4.x.x