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Hey Dave, that sounds real nice. You played the melody really well, and I'm enjoying the comping. Very musical. That's a good approach.
Originally Posted by oldhead
NOT WELL, but because you asked and because of everyone's support and help, I feel somewhat obligated to let you know where I'm at. I'm almost embarrassed to post this, as it progressively falls apart; however this will be a good benchmark to see how it progresses, and I know I'm among friends. Plus, we have to be able to laugh at ourselves. Life is short. There is one lick I like starting at about 4:16, but I probably won't be able to duplicate it. I must have had an accident at that spot. Bear in mind, this was the first time at trying to play all the way through and record the parts, with no re-takes, as you'll hear. I think learning to solo is going to be fun but not easy. It will also give you an idea of what's rattling around in my mind for this piece. Because business has gone bonkers and I have to go to Johns Hopkins next week, I probably won't be playing, even the lessons, until about a week or so from now.
I'll check in from time to time, though. I do appreciate your interest.
And thanks, FEP, for the downloads and info.
Autumn First Pass.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
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03-13-2012 01:34 AM
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Thought that was quite good actually, that swings. Originally Posted by oldhead
Improvisation is it's own discipline. I don't think there's a book that can teach you. From my own attempts over the last few years, I wouldn't especially expect anything more than that from yourself - not for a long time and not unless you get a teacher.
Keep swingin' man!
Frank, you're a lot handsomer now.
That goonie's just not your colour.
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TLT, Here is a response to your question about chords. When I tried to reply quoting you it would not allow me to use the chord diagrams.
I played the B7 using the fifth string root. Here are the 7sus4, 9sus4 and 7b9 chords with sixth string roots. In Study 1 I just played a dominant 7 because of the large movement up to the tenth fret to play the 9sus4. I'm learning the fifth string root chords now which is making things alot smooth as far as having to jump up and down the neck.
7
[CHORD]
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-R-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
7sus4
[CHORD]
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
9sus4
[CHORD]
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-X--|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-R-|---|-X--|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
7(b9)
[CHORD]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-X-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-R--|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
in the 7(b9) chord the R is an invisible root used for reference, not for playing.
Check out Al's book entitled "Chords, Scales and Arpeggios". He teaches 27 different chords. Each chord is taught in 10 different positions on the neck.Last edited by Will Glen; 03-13-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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Thanks Will I just ordered the book. Like I don't have enough books! Originally Posted by Will Glen
This one looks good though, I could see from the amazon look inside thing.
I worked on the etude a little more, and realised if I play the B7 at the 7th fret, the E min is right there.
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Let me know how you like the book. I'm interested to hear your take on it. I am having some difficulty with his fingerings (D) and (E) for the major scale and have not clearly understood his position shifts. I'm trying to figure this out but have not gotten it yet. Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Thanks Will I just ordered the book. Like I don't have enough books! This one looks good though, I could see from the amazon look inside thing.
I worked on the etude a little more, and realised if I play the B7 at the 7th fret, the E min is right there.
I have a book called Rhythms Complete by Bugs Bower and it is alot like Leavitt's Melodic Rhythms. Here is the 1st study from it. I recorded the chords and then tried to take the melody and mess around with it mostly just targeting the first note of the measure and the last note of the measure.
Like Leavitt's Melodic Rhythms it presents alot of syncopated rhythms that I would like to learn eventually and incorporate to some extent when I learn how to improvise.
If anyone wants any of these exercises posted let me know and I will scan and post some. I think they tie in well with what we are learning in MMI and are good chord exercises also.
Bugs Bower Rhythm No 1.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File StorageLast edited by Will Glen; 03-18-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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Pass the coconuts will! Very calypso.
I recorded a few more last week. Will try embedding again. The rhythm doesn't come across well in this one - I was counting in my head, but the listener needs a click to get the beat.
Last edited by ten left thumbs; 03-18-2012 at 04:57 PM.
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Hi folks, everyone busy?
Will, the Di Meola book arrived some time ago and I've made a start on the first lesson. I'm not sure I'm cut out for this chord-drilling lark ('learn the chords on page such-and-such'). I don't suppose it would do to complain that a book entitled 'A guide to chords, scales and arpeggios' has too many chords in it? I mean, it does what it says on the tin.
It's just that I have a brain like a sieve. Are you doing the lessons as instructed?
On the upside I've been playing from melodic rhythms, trying to swap through the positions I know. Also playing Gymnopodie #1 (Satie) as a duet with my son. This week's lesson is Eine Kleine Nachmusik.
What's everyone been up to?
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Too many chords!!! The more the better! Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Hi folks, everyone busy?
Will, the Di Meola book arrived some time ago and I've made a start on the first lesson. I'm not sure I'm cut out for this chord-drilling lark ('learn the chords on page such-and-such'). I don't suppose it would do to complain that a book entitled 'A guide to chords, scales and arpeggios' has too many chords in it? I mean, it does what it says on the tin.
It's just that I have a brain like a sieve. Are you doing the lessons as instructed?
On the upside I've been playing from melodic rhythms, trying to swap through the positions I know. Also playing Gymnopodie #1 (Satie) as a duet with my son. This week's lesson is Eine Kleine Nachmusik.
What's everyone been up to?
Yes, I'm following the book closely and study from it daily. I hate it sometimes but this is because I can be lazy and it is demanding but at the same time I love it because its straightforward in teaching fundamental tools to hopefully enable me to develop a stronger foundation. At least this is what I have convinced myself of as I plow through the material!
I have completed Lesson 1 in its entirety and it took me over a month to get it done. I'm in Lesson II now while reviewing Lesson I like how we do MMI.
A big challenge for me has been trying to be able to transpose the third pattern of the 12 bar blues of lesson 1 in all the keys. In lesson II this gets even harder during the Jazz Chord Exercise Studies. I have decided to write them out in each key because doing it on the fly is not working for me.
I am still not smooth on FORM I chords like the Maj9 and 13(#9) chords. Being able to combine the FORM I (root 6th string) chords and FORM II (root 5th string) chords is making playing much smoother because I don't have to jump up and down the fretboard chasing the sixth string root chords. As I learn the other chord FORMS I am beginning to see how it enables me to play faster and smoother within a smaller area of the fretboard.
I'm not up to snuff on my theory but I'm pretty sure that all the different chord forms are for is so that we can play more melodically with our chords using what is called "inversions", putting the melody note on top of the given chord form. I take the chords I'm learning and then play from the Real Book tunes that I'm able to and things are coming along.
I memorized the 12 bar blues patterns and the Jazz Chord Exercise studies and have just begun to start recording some progressions with Maj and min chords so I can practice the arpeggios over them. Memorizing the different 12 Bar Blues patterns gives a structure to then start to play the scales and arpeggios over them. I think this might be the application of Chord/Scale Theory but I'm not sure.
I chose the book because I want to become much more proficient with knowing and playing chords, scales and arpeggios. The book is doing that for me in a very systematic manner.
Enough rambling from me. I look forward to hearing Gymnopodie #1 that you all are working on if you post it up. Sounds like an interesting piece. Take care and have a good one.
Will
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Cool that sounds like great material you are working on with your son. Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
Hi folks, everyone busy?
Will, the Di Meola book arrived some time ago and I've made a start on the first lesson. I'm not sure I'm cut out for this chord-drilling lark ('learn the chords on page such-and-such'). I don't suppose it would do to complain that a book entitled 'A guide to chords, scales and arpeggios' has too many chords in it? I mean, it does what it says on the tin.
It's just that I have a brain like a sieve. Are you doing the lessons as instructed?
On the upside I've been playing from melodic rhythms, trying to swap through the positions I know. Also playing Gymnopodie #1 (Satie) as a duet with my son. This week's lesson is Eine Kleine Nachmusik.
What's everyone been up to?
Yeah, the DiMeola sounds tough. You've got plenty of time though.
Me, I recorded a version of Misty over at the other study group, post # 18 here:
March 2012 - Misty
(From a recent thread that asked the same question)
And, I'm practicing four songs for a workshop this evening that I'm attending. My guitar teacher invited me to the workshop. (Actually my last lesson was Dec. 2010. It's nice that he still keeps in touch).
The workshop works this way: Three of the 1st call pros in town have each invited three of their students to the workshop. The three pros are my guitar teacher, a stand up bass player and a drummer. Each of the students will play with the trio substituting for their instructor and then there will be critiques.
So, I'll be playing with the drummer and the bass player, both top pros in San Diego. I've seen all these pros play many times over the years. I'm excited, it's seems like a really good format. Same price as a lesson, $50.
(And a pretty smart way for the instructors to generate some additional revenue).Last edited by fep; 03-29-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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All good perspectives Will. I think the first lesson could take me a year! I think I will focus on getting through the chords, rather than memorizing them, get on to the exercises, or applying the chords elsewhere, and refer back when I need them. So the first jazz chord exercise looks fairly familiar, I already do something similar. I can't say I understand the blues exercises. Blues is fine, but what are all the roman numerals doing? I, II- B and the like. They look neither like position marks, nor like numbers of chords in a scale (IV-V-I). perhaps it will make more sense if I go through in order. Originally Posted by Will Glen
Too many chords!!! The more the better!
Yes, I'm following the book closely and study from it daily. I hate it sometimes but this is because I can be lazy and it is demanding but at the same time I love it because its straightforward in teaching fundamental tools to hopefully enable me to develop a stronger foundation. At least this is what I have convinced myself of as I plow through the material! ...
Will
Anyway, the book will have done its job if it distracts me from Modern Method, and also makes me realise how much I love MM after all!
Frank, your Misty is truly awesome! You become a different person when you play for real. Do you play in a band at all? Your workshop sounds great, it is good to touch base with teachers who have helped in the past.
I haven't managed to record gymnopodie, but along similar lines, I am experimenting with playing piano music. This is from an easy book, and i recorded the 'hands' one at a time. Menuet by Krieger.
menuet hands together.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
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Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
All good perspectives Will. I think the first lesson could take me a year! I think I will focus on getting through the chords, rather than memorizing them, get on to the exercises, or applying the chords elsewhere, and refer back when I need them. So the first jazz chord exercise looks fairly familiar, I already do something similar. I can't say I understand the blues exercises. Blues is fine, but what are all the roman numerals doing? I, II- B and the like. They look neither like position marks, nor like numbers of chords in a scale (IV-V-I). perhaps it will make more sense if I go through in order.
Anyway, the book will have done its job if it distracts me from Modern Method, and also makes me realise how much I love MM after all!
Frank, your Misty is truly awesome! You become a different person when you play for real. Do you play in a band at all? Your workshop sounds great, it is good to touch base with teachers who have helped in the past.
I haven't managed to record gymnopodie, but along similar lines, I am experimenting with playing piano music. This is from an easy book, and i recorded the 'hands' one at a time. Menuet by Krieger.
menuet hands together.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
You are correct, they are neither. They tell what FORM of chord to play from the 10 different FORMS he teaches for each chord.
Taking page 86 as an example.
Ex. IV at the beginning signifies Exercise 4
The roman numeral I above the Gm (measure 1) means to play FORM I Gm chord (root on the 6th string). There are ten different FORMS per chord and this tells us to play the FORM I chord.
The roman numeral II above the Cm (measure 2) means to play FORM II of the Cm chord (root on the 5th string).
The roman numeral II-B above the D7 (measure 9) means to play FORM II, shape B chord. In the FORM II chords there are two different ways to play a dominant 7th chord and rather than play the A shape, he wants us to play the B shape.
In Exercise III you will notice an A with the circle around it and also a B with the circle around it. This introduces us to substitutions. So rather than play a G7 we can play a G9 instead. It builds from here and he has a substitution chart at the back of the book. I'm just starting to realize on a basic level about substitutions and how some chords are identical to other chords. Different names but same notes.Last edited by Will Glen; 03-31-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Oh, I see, thanks! Originally Posted by Will Glen
Yes, I'd got that. As for substitutions - tbh, I find the layout of the chords quite confusing in that he doesn't respect (much) the function of the chord while teaching it - so examples from the different chord types are scattered all over. Learning them in the order that he gives them will not teach you a broad overview of how they work. The master guide is perhaps helpful, but even then, why separate out the dom7 and dom9 just to say that they can be substituted for each other?In Exercise III you will notice an A with the circle around it and also a B with the circle around it. This introduces us to substitutions. So rather than play a G7 we can play a G9 instead. It builds from here and he has a substitution chart at the back of the book. I'm just starting to realize on a basic level about substitutions and how some chords are identical to other chords. Different names but same notes.
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Hi Will, Originally Posted by Will Glen
Just a small terminology point. At least, this is how I was taught the terminology. It's logical and makes sense to me. I wish I could find it in a book to refer you too.
Three terms I'll mention, extension, alteration, and substitution.
An extension is adding another tone in the "stack of thirds". For example if you play a G9 instead of a G7, that is an extension.
Alterations are changing the chord tones (or the normal extended chord tones). If you play a G7b9 instead of a G7, that's an alteration.
Substitutions are choosing a chord with another root to replace the original chord. If you replace G7 with Db9, that's a substitution (a tritone substitution in this case).Last edited by fep; 04-01-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Hi Will, As we discussed.
This is for all the MM1 folks, you probably want to go to full screen to see the notation clearly.
Self critique, I got a little behind the metronome on the last exercise. Sorry, but it's not too bad and you certainly get the idea of how to go about these exercises.
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I'm sure you're right, Will. I'm just not sure how to find it without it being on my channel. Then there are all sorts of embed codes, but nothing seems to work. Thanks for doing it anyway. Originally Posted by Will Glen
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I've been working on Autumn Leaves and finally after about a month or so got it where I can play it all the way through and hopefully learn about how to make it more interesting and sound more jazzy eventually and improvise in the future but this will be a ways off for me. I've read to follow the melody and at times I am picking notes around the melody in attempts to harmonize it. I'm hoping I'm on the right track and moving in the right direction.
My goal will be to learn the melody in some other positions and include more voicings eventually and other chords. I would really like to learn how to do some bass runs eventually.
Autumn Leaves take 4 10 2012.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
I'm on the hunt for another tune to begin working on if anyone wants to make a suggestion??? Perhaps another ballad like Autumn Leaves??Last edited by Will Glen; 04-10-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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That's beautiful Will. I never tire of that one.
Was that you doing chord melody, or was that two recordings?
You could join in the standards thread in the other forum, i think they do a standard a month. Great thing about autumn leaves is the melody is slow and predictable enough, it gives you time to think. Will try to think of another steady one.
I've still been working on the first Melodic Rhythms tune, finding the chord changes painfully slow. Will try to record soon, no matter how slow it is.
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Thanks TLT and I love the melody and I'm with you on not tiring of this tune. I think more than anything it is the melodies that drew me to trying to learn how to play jazz. I was doing a chord melody with one guitar in this recording. Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
The chord changes are the hardest part for me also. Here are a few videos I found helpful and only just found out about Fishers's and Les Wise's. I've stopped practicing chords like Pebber Brown shows and have replaced it with how Fisher shows to compare and see what produces the best results for me personally. I think there is value in each one. Likewise, I now am beginning to approach learning new tunes by following Les Wise's great instruction:
Have a good one,
Will
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Hi Will, I think there is value in each idea to learning chords - probably I need to do a bit of all, but we do need to accept it takes time. I admit I get frustrated with Pebber's approach - I'm sure well-meant - but if I could just form the shape in the air and stick it straight on the fretboard, then I would, and if I could do it without looking. "How to be an expert - just be an expert" - it's an approach that doesn't work for me.
Interesting when I last had a lesson, and I mentioned a chord was troubling me, the teacher took me through placing my fingers on the strings in correct position, but not to fret, just to mute the strings. Strum. Try it, it's hard for a difficult chord. Then press just a shade harder. Strum, still muting. Each time press just a shade harder. Once you're sounding all notes, immediately go back to muting pressure and repeat.
I thought it was interesting because it's the exact opposite of Jody's extra pressure idea. But the rationale is you also discover how little pressure is actually needed, and it's good for relaxed technique.
How you getting on with Al Di M? Have to admit I get frustrated with him too. Dear oh dear I'm a difficult customer to please. But really, when he writes '1st fret' or '3rd fret' under a chord, he could make it clear which fret he is referring to, otherwise, why bother writing?
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Hey, Will, just ran across this one. Very nicely done and pleasant to listen to. Thanks for posting it. Originally Posted by Will Glen
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Hi Will, You're going great on the chord melody - I have no idea how and am probably best not to ask. Originally Posted by Will Glen
If you're looking for suggestions, how about:
It's a wonderful world
Misty
Somewhere over the rainbow
Don't get around much anymore
You're probably best going with something you really like. I'm just trying to think of really lyrical songs that aren't too fussy and don't have too many key changes.
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That's awesome. Originally Posted by Will Glen
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Thanks. I'm going to work on Misty and hopefully eventually will be able to participate in the standards thread that is going on. On the Di Meola, he is not referring to fret location but rather the chord FORM if I understand your question. The only reference to fret location is in the actual chord diagrams. In the Jazz Chord Studies and 12 Bar Blues they refer to the FORM of the chord. Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
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Will I really enjoyed listening to your chord melody. Very musical. Originally Posted by Will Glen
One thing I like is you kept it pretty sparse.
Some folks like to have a different voicing or a different chord on every beat and/or every melody note. I think that is way over doing it. Yes, it is clever and shows everyone that you've figured out how to use a lot of chords. But sometimes to me, that every beat gets a new chord approach sounds to cluttered, dense, and too busy.
Your use and frequency of chords, sounds just right to me.
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