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Okay it's Jan. 1st... 8:15 AM on Jan 1st in Melbourne.
So let the fun begin. This week, through Jan. 8th, we will be discussing and working on pages 1 through 7 (next week will be pages 8 through 11.
Here are the links where you can post questions, comments, recordings etc. not specific to this thread:
anyone else using Leavitt?
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12-31-2011 05:26 PM
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Here is a list of the links to all the 'Study Group' threads for 'A Modern Method For Guitar Vol 1':
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...tml#post214220Last edited by fep; 03-26-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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There is a lot of material presented on page 3. But it's just a matter of memorization. For those of you that this is new, feel free to chime in with questions.
Once you get into the exercises and tunes, how do intend to schedule your practice?
If your are tight for time, I'm a believer in short focused practice sessions. I think two 15 minute practice sessions can be better than one 40 minute practice session.
Sometimes it's a pain to use a metronome and I don't practice enough with one. I vow to always use a metronome while going through the Modern Method for Guitar Vol 1 (MM1) book.Last edited by fep; 12-31-2011 at 05:37 PM.
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There are some things that are skipped on page 3. Like how to hold the guitar. So this topic is not actually on page 3, but I think it should be one of the first things learned.
I wanted to start a disicussion of left hand position and risk of wrist injuries. Especially for the beginners, this is the time to develop good habits.
Anyways, this is how I do it:
I do use my thumb to grab the sixth string occasionally for chord playing, but more than 95% of the time I keep my thumb near the middle of the neck as pictured.
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ooh! let the fun begin...
metronome, that sounds like a new years resolution?
ok, i will share something a guitar teacher once told me. i did need to be told, it wasn't in any of the books, or any youtube vids i had seen. simple thing. he told me to fret the string just behind the fret - course you can fret it anywhere, and as a beginner the middle seemed like a good spot - but if you stop the string just behind the fret, then you greatly reduce the pressure needed.
pg 3 is a lot to take in. its memory work, also a lot of just plain accepting that's how it is, and understanding the system. in real life people take a while to learn to read music.
its fun looking over these pages again and i'll try to make a recording this week. i remember being entranced by the duet.
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like the video, fep, you're a natural for the camera.
i remember internet discussions about not putting the thumb over, but leaving it on the back of the neck, and *totally* not understanding. where else would i put my thumb? the i realised that most guitarists have hand a couple sizes up from me and the thumb actually *can* go over top. lol
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Pages 1 to 7.Two things do you guys and girls think we should be playing using all down strokes as i believe that's were the book heads later playing down strokes on the downbeats.The other thing ,is it worth mentioning what the chords are just in case anyone is wondering about the inverted triads etc,or should we leave that until the book explains them later.
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I play a Telecaster and have larger hands. They measure 8 inches from heel to tip of middle finger.
I find my thumb being all over the place when I play. But I think the secret to that is that I don't put a lot of pressure with my hand when gripping chords or playing lines. Sometimes I even find myself having my thumb off of the neck when playing. I know this is somewhat unique.
I've attached 3 pictures to show how when my thumb does go over the neck I still don't get my wrist into a position that is painful.
Picture 1 is me playing a Bb13 chord , Picture 2 is me gripping a Eb9, and the 3rd picture is me running some major scale up the neck.
If you see something here that should be corrected let me know. I feel like it's comfortable and as I said I consider myself to have large hands. I am open to be corrected though. Especially if it helps me avoid future pain and heartache.
Personally I think some discussion while we go through the exercises would prove beneficial in the end. For example, exercise 2 includes arpeggios for some chords. 1-3-5. C-E-G. THen the chord.
EDIT: Nice video. I was trying to figure out how to do a video like that using my audiobox for the sound but couldn't get it to work.Last edited by PirateNigel; 12-31-2011 at 09:10 PM.
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Looks good to me, I think the key is to keep the wrist from doing that reverse bend. Same thing they talked about at work regarding typing and then gave us those pads to raise our wrists. You have the luxury of having big hands, and what you're doing looks like it's working.
Originally Posted by PirateNigel
I think I'm going to address how I do videos over at the other thread, probably not until tomorrow.
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I'd say "yes" to downstrokes. As far as chord names, I'd call that "extra credit". Originally Posted by gingerjazz
Learning to read these three-note voicings in notation is the challenge here, even if you've worked through single-note or classical reading methods previously. Also, playing some of these voicings without muting the open string in the middle can be a challenge and requires a different technique from classical playing.
With a non-classical nut width, you have to err on the side of touching adjacent non-played strings to let these inner, open notes ring. Of course, this mutes the non-played strings -- and that's a good thing, but, again, different from a traditional classical technique.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 12-31-2011 at 11:06 PM.
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When I recorded this is occurred to me that some might use this as a play-along. So I recorded it with two tempos, twice at each tempo on the first one. I didn't count out load because I was recording, Leavitt recommends that you count.
Self critique:
- My pinky is flying away from the fretboard, I need to all my fingers close to the fretboard.
- The dynamics aren't as consistent as I'd like.
- It doesn't sound like music, it sounds like an exercise. This kind of exercise might be hard to make it sound like music but one should try.
One observation, is it's hard to play that slow. Kind of like walking but at a pace of one step every three seconds, try it it's hard. You might find it easier at the faster tempo. Another difficulty is knowing the tape is running, we'll all probably get over that the more we record.
Last edited by fep; 01-01-2012 at 12:23 AM.
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First, a sincere thanks to fep: You are going way above and beyond the call of duty! Originally Posted by Billnc
Now about the hand position: In order to achieve a unbent wrist, I angle the head of my guitar higher than you (fep) - about 45 degrees. Also, my thumb is in the center of the neck, but it points more or less towards the head - more directly toward the head in higher positions. Finally - and I'm not sure if this is to far ahead but it relates to Pirate Nigel's pictures above: My wrist bends forwards when doing bar chords. The forward bend seems unavoidable but it is not always the most comfortable. Is that okay?
Thx.
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fep: I did not even notice some of the things you mentioned - like the pinky flying away. Thanks for reminding me (us) to pay attention to our body mechanics. Presumably this will help us develop fluid, easy motions.
What I did notice is how even and clean your picking sounds - not so for yours truly. I don't even hit the correct string sometimes, and other times the attack sounds either heavy handed, or like a near miss, or as though the pick is scraping the string.
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There is a general rule that if you are playing something sloppily, it's better to slow down.
What surprised me is that I find it easier to play the exercises on page 4 at 68 half notes per minute than at 68 quarter notes per minute. When playing at the slower tempo, my left hand seems to forget where to go. Any thoughts on this?
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First of all, thank to fep for taking the trouble to make those videos. People learn best by imitation, and those help a lot.
Now some comments and questions...
What I've been trying to do is sing each note's letter name as I play it. It's harder for me that way, but I think I will learn more in the long run. I can see that I need to have the sight reading of individual notes down absolutely cold if I'm going to have any hope of parsing new chords rapidly. I've put this in the same category as learning your multiplication tables when you're a kid.
It's significantly more difficult for me to play this stuff in time with a metronome, so I don't think I really learn much without using one. Is it better to slow down the metronome to the point where I make almost no mistakes. or set it to push me a little at the cost of some mistakes? When I do make mistakes, is it better to stop and start over or just keep going?
I've been careless about doing alternate up down picking. Should I not do that at this point?
Once you've played an exercise a few times, you sort of learn it by heart, and then it's ruined for practicing sight-reading. Does anyone know of an internet source for lots of very simple music, preferably free and downloadable?
OK, sorry for all the pesky questions. I'll give it a rest now (even though we haven't covered rests yet).Last edited by strumcat; 01-01-2012 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Added proper title
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Great questions strumcat,i will attempt to give you my thoughts on those things.I believe you should slow down the metronome until you can play the piece with no ,mistakes and then build up the tempo.This is quite widely accepted as the correct method,its often said if you cannot play it slow you wont play it fast.When i make a mistake i always start over,thats just me though i don't know if this is the accepted practice or not.The book moves on later to playing down strokes on down beats and up strokes on upbeats so i think it is best to play these that way.It would have probably been better if the book had mentioned the picking technique to be used.I dont think these exercises are meant to be reading studies they come later i think these are more about learning the positions,so memorising at this stage is ok i think.I think TLT can point you towards some free resources on the net regarding reading studies,i have the reading studies books that accompany this book.Hope this helps a bit,i am not a music teacher so these are only my own take on things.Peace
Last edited by gingerjazz; 01-01-2012 at 06:16 AM.
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as ginger says, slow it down, get it right, then you can speed up. some passages this book has had me to 40bpm, which is the slowest my ticker goes. exception is if you are banging yr head off a brick wall, in which case, break it down. Originally Posted by strumcat
tips for breaking things down (to avoid head-banging)
chunking. *do not* play piece from beginning to end. break it into 4 bar chunks (2 bars, 1 bar, whatever). use postits to hide from view the notes you are not interested in. only once you can play 4 bar chunks correctly, put together into 8 bars, etc
notes and rhythm separate. once through, disregard notes and play rhythm only. clap, or play down strokes on single note. once through, disregard rhythm and play notes only. turn metronome off.
man on video says down strokes only for now.I've been careless about doing alternate up down picking. Should I not do that at this point?
i first learned guitar-reading from an old teach-yorself recorder book that was lying around. anything simple will do. try this:Once you've played an exercise a few times, you sort of learn it by heart, and then it's ruined for practicing sight-reading. Does anyone know of an internet source for lots of very simple music, preferably free and downloadable?
OK, sorry for all the pesky questions. I'll give it a rest now (even though we haven't covered rests yet).
Beginner Piano Music for Kids -- Printable Free Sheet Music
try mary had a little lamb, jingle bells, etc. ignore wormies and snakes as they only work on piano. if the bass clef has notes, ignore it.
don't worry too much that you memorize. you still practice reading even when memorized (though, true, not to the same extent). got kids? remember when they're learning to read and they memorise their fav book and read it constantly again and again. there is something and familiarity and comfort that helps - not the constant fear that the next word will be difficult. and then over time it just happens.
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Hi strumcat,
I think if you are at an early beginner stage to sight reading you need to supplement leavitt's method with something like melbay's grade one book. For instance, it has you reading on one string at a time before you play them simultaneously. As you work through the exercises say the note names out loud as you play them. As ten left thumb mentioned, read the rhythms w/o reading the notes. By internalizing the rhythms and knowing the note names by sight can you sight reading fluently. Then and only then, should you think about bumping the bpm level. Also as far as the chords, you need not worry too much about those. Focus on single lines for right now. Get those down cold. You need to do a lot of easy drills first.
Leavitt's book is good for any level, but it must be supplemented with something more basic for absolute beginners to sight reading. Just my 2cents.Last edited by smokinguit; 01-01-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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I think knowing how to sight read at a basic level is important to get through the first part of this book w/ ease as the book has no tabs. But you can learn the notes on the strings and create your own tabs. That way you can figure out how to play the exercises by continuous practice. Don't let not knowing how to sight read frustrate you too much. Just figure out how it is played and follow along with this thread and the DVD if you have it. Again you can supplement this book with a basic reading book if you want to learn how to do it at this stage in MM. I find David Oak's book on reading for guitarist to be good cause he really break things down.
Last edited by smokinguit; 01-01-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Yea, This is going well. Thanks to the questions and the answers that everyone has been providing.
Only thing I can think of adding, is in my opinion it is best to avoid tab at this point. I believe Leavitt didn't include tab because this book is about teaching you to read. And if you use tab you won't have to memorize the notes. Just my opinion.
Thanks Ron, it's so helpful to have someone like you.
A Question for Ronjazz
After the 1st page a lot of the exercises have chords on the inside strings like F A C or E G C in the first position. There are various ways to play those; 1) with hybrid picking, 2) with a rest strong (landing on the high E string) or 3) muting the high E string with the side of your pinky (this one I don't care for).
Can you give us advice on how Leavitt might instruct one on how to approach this?
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i wanted to reply to this. when i started out on guitar i was keen to avoid mistakes, so i took advice from a youtube vid (by a guitar teacher) who basically said, keep the wrist straight. well, i could keep it straight for a d chord fine. keeping it straight for an f chord was another matter, but i tried. it meant i had to bend a funny way at the knuckles, which hurt, but i expected an f chord to hurt anyway, so i kept going. Originally Posted by PirateNigel
eventually the pain made me stop playing. after two months, no guitar, but still sore, i finally made doc's appointment. to cut long story short, the physio spent ages pressing on one bit, and when i asked her why she said one of the bones in the arch in my wrist was out of place so she had to put it back.
clever woman she was. so, when i pick up guitar again, i went back to the internet guy who had made the vid on 'posture', and asked him. i also looked him up on youtube, and for a barre chord, he had his hand right down, fingers straight down, bent at the wrist. so i asked him and he said, yes, i suppose you do bend the wrist for some chords. so much for that!
it took me a long time to train my wrist to bend like that. by 'wrist bent' i mean the rightmost-pic of Nigel.
the moral of the story? when someone says something like 'keep yr thumb at the back' or 'don't bend the wrist' - there is probably some truth in what they are saying. but, we are all different shapes and sizes and we have little anomalies that matter, what works for one chord/style of playing doesn't necessarily work for all chords/all styles of playing. so, to a point, everyone has to be their own teacher and think about what is going on and how that can be made most efficient - and least likely to cause injury.
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Sea to Sea Duet, 1st Guitar in vid (playing along with 2nd guitar)
A quandary; It's so much easier for me to do the chords with hybrid or finger picking. Maybe I should just stick with it?
I did hybrid picking on this
Okay, now I can relax for the rest of the week
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Bill showed me that the pick moves in a "flicking" motion from the wrist, and an arc is created. The lowest part of the arc should be on the final string you're playing, with the pick coming to rest on the next string. This is a Van Eps/Johnny Smith dictum as well, and the ideal result is that the highest note in the chord will be the loudest, generally the best for melodic voice-leading, and demands quite a bit of control and practice to become natural. If you have a chance to watch the great rhythm guitarists on youtube, you'll see that they "flick" across the strings in a seemingly effortless fashion, bringing out the highest note and creating a harmony part with the bass. An alternate method is to mute the unused strings with the left hand; this gives you the ability to "bounce" over the strings for a lighter feel. In any event, hybrid picking will not work in this context, although I have no objection at all to it as a technique, but it is not strong enough for this type of playing. Having said that, there aren't any rules not made to be bent! Originally Posted by fep
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Pg 5 Exercise 2 Bar 5-6?
Leavitt uses this chord and arp throughout the first few pages a lot.
It's F-G-B. What is this chord? It's not coming to me. I've thought about it but this one eludes me. Is this a Fsus2? If it is, then why is it? I'm probably way off base here trying to figure this out on my own.
EDIT: I'm even more confused. I looked up sus2 triads and they seem to be 1-2-5. Correct?
Another question from same exercise: In 1-2 bars it's a 1-3-5 of C and bars 7-8 he uses the 3-5-1 of C. Is the second instance known as the first inversion?
Theory and fretboard knowledge are my weakest. I hate that I've only played cowboy chords for so long but I am changing that. Slowly, but it is changing.Last edited by PirateNigel; 01-01-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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PirateNigel, it's a G7. As Leavitt says later on, chords are named from their harmonic function, not from their shapes. The chord in question contains the "tritone", the interval from B-F. Try this: play B on the open 2nd string along with F on the first string, then move the first finger to the second string and play C, along with the open 1st string E. Now you can hear the strength of the tritone, which I consider the keystone of the arch of modern music.
I believe you have the answer to the second question just right.
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