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There are very few jazz musicians in my area, but I don't want that to limit my gigging opportunities, so I was thinking of going out to play to the Aebersold backing tracks, and was wondering if any of you had any experience in this. I know it's never going to match having an actual combo to play with, but it's the best I've got.
Are audiences and venues alright with this sort of thing, or do they find it cheesy/get bored with only having one lead instrument? What's the best way to play the backing tracks at the venue? Any struggles you've run into?
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06-16-2011 01:58 PM
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I play pretty regularly in a restaurant. background music.
I tried using aebersold tracks.
I didn't like it.
I found in that restaurant setting the tracks were too busy. that is, too much drums, ,too much bass, too much piano. It didn't work for me.
I made mine own tracks, just a single guitar track, chords mostly, with a bit of a drums to help out.
it was better than abersold for me.
I recorded them on the computer, and play them on an mp3 player, which I have plugged into a volume control pedal, which I found necessary, then into my amp.
not as good as playing with other musicians, but a lot better than me solo.
I also use a looper a lot, for a second guitar track, this works pretty well, can do any tune I want instantly.
hope that helps.
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I've given this a great bit of thought-Jamie backing tracks-cheesy . Even worse--BIAB. Super Cheese.
Given your name, why don't you just use the "Solar Voyager" ?
I've thought instead of canned cheese, the following setup-
Using a series of real instruments in addition to guitar +
loop Station+
An instrument like the Korg Wavedrum ( google it) +
MacBook Pro +
Logic Studio pro and Main Stage
Real dynamically generated loops created on the fly, plus percussion.
In lieu of a full fledged Lunar or Solar Voyager
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well thats not so nice of you
Originally Posted by markf
It's a serious answer! Whats been up with you guys north of the Border? First Overturning and burning cars, now this.
With regard to the most SOPHISTICATED guitar gear setup ever by a solo guitarist, here is a description of Robert Fripp's earlier "Lunar Voyager"--anyone who uses the name "King Crimson" knows what that means...
Q&A with one of RF's guitar tech--don't think anyone with a "plug and play" jazz guitar background may not get it.....
1.* What are the individual floor and rack units that RF used on his most recent
soundscapes tour?
rack:* eventide 8000a, switchblade 16 channel, GP-100, (4) Eventide 3500's (2 dropped by restaurant workers trying to be HELPFUL at the Ram's Head - we had to take them apart, in front of the crowd, and re-seat the chips. and then they worked) - and his power amp, that was pretty much it. There was a motu peice in there that John used for things.*John Sinks took his big rack (the lunar module, famed for years of road use w. KC) and put it all into 4space skb's (re-named the solar voyager) - so we could use my little Eddie Mini Van Halen for the last tour. RObert ended up quite liking Eddie Mini Van Halen - I think the list needs to know that.*
floor: Rocktron All Access, the Roland 13-pin splitter/A/B selector, the 4 roland volumes, Gr-1, Gr-30. The GR-1 has the expanded stuff. well actually that one's on my bench right now. Peterson Strobe tuner.* (2) Bag End loudspeakers.* Apple G4 17" laptop & projector.
*
2.* For what purpose does RF use each of the four volume controllers on the
floor, next to the Rocktron All Access?
each one controls different parts of the loops, and the various loops. there's one master volume; then he can blend the upper or lower 3500 pair loops with 2 more pedals, then lastly the 8000a, which accepts either stereo loop as he toes them down. so, there's like 3 loops basically going at all times, and he can shoot either of the 2 main loops into the 8000a when desired creating the big loop. a lot of control in that system and he works it like houdini... actually that's a basic understanding of it - w. the switchblade, loops and systems are sometimes put in different places in the signal series however that's basically how it works.* The TC's are gone, they were getting old and aren't supported any more. Also no Whammy pedal in the soundscape rig.
3.* Is there a general looping technique that RF tends to use currently when
creating soundscapes?* I ask because RF's recent soundscapes seem much less
repetitive (i.e., it's harder to pick out individual loops in his current work,
whereas on the soundscapes of the mid-1990s, it seems easier to identify
repeated phrases).* As an amateur looper, I'm curious to learn any looping
techniques that would make the output less blatantly repetitious.
see above answer"
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Some people will do absolutely anything to gig, even if it makes things worse for music and other musicians, as long as it's good for them. You make sacrifices for whatever you believe in. You have to decide these things for yourself.
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For a jazz gig, solo it's me or no one, warts and all. I am backing up a singer, but if I want a single note line it's bare, I like the pressure, though it drives me nuts. I do some chord melody things with improve thrown in. I feel jazz is reacting to what is going on around you in real time by live musicians dealing with the band size, from solo to big band. I like a lot of electronic music and yes Fripp.
I think in the particular 'looper genre' if you're doing the loops on the fly, with all that danger it's cool.
I can't in my mind, separate tracks from karaoke.
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Just wanted to say that as an audience member, I never dig play-alongs. Even looping gets scale to my ears if you're not doing something quite clever with it. I'd much rather hear somebody play solo earnestly. That's just my purely subjective perspective as a music listener.
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Seems like you could find one other player. Guitar or bass would work fine. A singer would do. You could sing.
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If I'm playing a solo gig, you're getting solo guitar. Not to sound like an ass, but I've worked much to hard to have three hours of solo music to dilute it now.
I'm working with a singer now who uses a backing track with bass and drums (we have a piano player occasionaly as well) and it's her call...I'm her backup.
In situations where I call the shots--no tracks.
Bill frisell uses a looper well. 99% of the population does not.
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I apologize,well thats not so nice of you It's a serious answer!
I guess I didn't read your response properly, I thought you were mocking the op.
my error.
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Originally Posted by Billnc
there is a thread at this site, very popular one, called the standard practical group, where most of the playing is done with backing tracks.
and players as good as Reg, use looped tracks on his lessons and videos, so does Soco, so does morton Faerstrand.
so does mr. zucker.
practically the only guy that goes solo, is geoff matz.
so why it then becomes bad to use tracks, or a looper, I don't get that.
I find playing solo jazz to be frustrating in the extreme. playing a single note line, there is basically nothing else happening. no sound. just your one note sounding.
you better be really good, to get that to work.Last edited by markf; 06-17-2011 at 09:11 AM.
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tacky imo...
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that's different. For demonstration purposes, I think it's acceptable. As "art/jazz" is misses the mark. Looping is somewhat different if used creatively. Originally Posted by markf
The other thing is that you are effectively underpricing bands by replacing band members with canned music.
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using tracks or a looper makes it worse for other musicians? Originally Posted by max chill
how?
If the budget is enough to pay for one guy, what difference does it make what gear he uses?
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i just explained how. You are undercutting bands when you play with backing tracks. It's happened to me many times in my career.
A few years back, I was doing a duo gig with a guy and the club owner said that another band offered to do the gig with a full band backing him for the same price.
Me and the other guitarist went to hear him after we were "let go" and the full band turned out to be Aebersold. There are a zillion stories similar to this one.
The same is true of any canned music. DJ's / CDs have effectively replaced live music. I'm showing my age but when disco first became popular I told folks it was the beginning of the end for live music and I was right. Playing with backing tracks is an extension of that.
That's "how"....
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I recently did a gig where I looped the drums and bass parts. I recorded the drum parts from my Boss Micro BR into my loop station and then recorded the bass parts over it. For the show, keys, sax, and myself on guitar were live. I run my loop station though my bass rig and it sounds great. Audience loved it.
Generally speaking, I would never play live with something like an Aebersold backing track and ultimately, my preference is to play with live musicians. More often than not, I have to resort to looping because it's hard to find like minded amateur players with chops.
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That would be true if there were no difference between a guy with a backing track and a live band, which is evidently not so, and of course people can tell the difference. Another thing is that they mind, and they usually don't. For one thing, there are situations where the presence of a full band or orchestra would be much too demanding on the audience's attention - if you're having dinner, you probably want to think about (in this order) the people you are with, your food, the bill, the restaurant itself, and (maybe) the music. Originally Posted by jzucker
For another, if someone uses a backing track to fill out his sound or for whatever reason, all credit to him, it isn't as easy as it looks. And if someone has spent a significant part of his life getting a Mark Knopfler solo down, well, he can't play it in public on his own without a backing track, can he? So what's the problem? No-one is going to be fooled into thinking he's got Dire Straits hidden under his chair.
(Personally, if I were gigging solo now, I would at least want something electronic for the rhythm, at least some of the time, you have to vary the pace. Then, effects are easier with a computer, these days, and once you've got your laptop plugged in, why not use it for backing, as well?)
Nonsense. Canned music has its place. Or should your dentist or supermarket be obliged to employ live musicians?The same is true of any canned music.
Stratospheric nonsense. Nothing has helped spread music appreciation more than recorded music. Even DJs have their place in the ecology of music.DJ's / CDs have effectively replaced live music.
So live music has been in decline since the middle of the seventies? I really don't believe so. It has had its ups and downs, the picture has changed, but an overall decline? No way, there has never been more live music. There are more orchestras (for example) per head of population in the world than ever, more subsidized events, more festivals of all kinds, maybe fewer small venues, but far more large ones... When I came to Madrid twenty-odd years ago, there were two jazz venues, now there are going on for ten. Shoot, there were two jazz festivals in the whole country, now they're legion, and that's talking about a genre that has undeniably lost popularity. There were no pop or rock festivals at all, there are now too many to count. The Auditorio Nacional used to have one concert a week, at most, now it has one almost every day (and tomorrow, it's running an all-day marathon in three different halls, with something like five different orchestras, chamber groups, and God knows what else).when disco first became popular I told folks it was the beginning of the end for live music and I was right.
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Yes. "Here are some lines I've been working on" is different then "enjoy your evening" Originally Posted by jzucker
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Teaching a concept and gigging are two different things. I just can't bring myself to say playing to a Jamey Aebersold track on a gig is anything but wrong. They are fun at home and can help one keep their chops up and try new ideas. Originally Posted by markf
Looping is different, if done live.
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Is not single note lines OR chord strumming.
BUT a very developed right hand that is able to play--with fingers OR pick and fingers --polyphony, chord melody, harmonizing lines, using intervals with oblique/parallel/contrary motion, improv with walking bass lines, et al.
I.E.-to play the guitar PIANISTICALLY.
That's my goal
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Slippery slope, when we talk about undercutting. Lots of gray.
My take on it is, it's only undercutting if the place has employed full bands and is looking for full bands, and then you go in there and sell yourself as "I can give you the sound of a full band with only one head to pay".
I'm not undercutting to go do a solo gig there as just guitar, because it's a different sound? Right? Or is it?
Some smaller places (both in size and in money intake) can really only hire singles or duos...So there, a full band wasn't going to get the gig anyway...So is it undercutting to play with tracks there? Does the guy who plays with tracks in these places undercut me as a solo performer because he gives the owner "more for his money?" Can someone like me even be "undercut" as I am not making my living off gigging?
I don't claim to know the answers to any of these questions...I just go with my gut...if it feels wrong, it probably is...
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How often are you out there gigging or looking for gigs? Not much I suspect. Ask anyone in NY, LA, DC, Chicago, etc. The gigs are disappearing. Young people want to dance to CDs. Originally Posted by JohnRoss
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What about this, steroids looping
Orchestrionics" is the term that I am using to describe a method of developing ensemble-oriented music using acoustic and acoustoelectric musical instruments that are mechanically controlled in a variety of ways, using solenoids and pneumatics. With a guitar, pen or keyboard I am able to create a detailed compositional environment or a spontaneously developed improvisation, with the pieces on this particular recording leaning toward the compositional side of the spectrum. On top of these layers of acoustic sound, I add my conventional electric guitar playing as an improvised component.:Last edited by markf; 06-17-2011 at 10:21 AM.
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I think it's all about how a looping device is used.
If you're just playing some chords and blowing over it, kinda boring. If I were in the audience, I'd be like "I paid money to watch this dude practice?"
Doing something creative with it, experimental, like Frisell, for example--cool. But there's not too many gigs out there for wild free-form looped solo improvisation.
To me, the key word in Pat's description is "improvisation." It's not canned. It's a fluid environment for improvising...that's a BIG difference in my book.
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Jack, i was shocked when you told me you did not Gig much because there was not much out there. God you live in a big city. Where does that leave the rest of us who live in small or rural areas? Sadness. Still if you do get a gig going, please let me know. I will drive up to see you!!! Originally Posted by jzucker
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