Gigging With Backing Tracks

[exarctly]

Seems like I think of playing with backing tracks vs looping as two separate things. I mean, I wouldn;t compare what Frisell does, with playing a gig ith Abersold tracks. By the way, another cool person who used looping to some degree well recently - Wolfgang Muthspiel with Brian Blade. A little project called Friendly Trevellers or something like that. There are some videos up on his web page. It is pretty nice at times.

[max chill]

Well, we should have figured. From the rest of your posts, it's pretty clear you don't play jazz or guitar. Or do you? Oh! An idea! Post about that.

Hmmm...isn't this thread about guitar karaoke? If I said what I really thought, some pirate might call me a wanker.

[KingCrimson250]

Great thoughts everyone, and a lot to chew on.

Obviously my preferencce would be to play reactively with live musicians - that's at the core of improvisation. But I'm having a tough time finding jazz musicians nearby (it's almost impossible to find a drummer unless blast beats in jazz is your thing), so #1, playing with other musicians isn't really feasible, and #2, I'm not terribly concerned about cutting in on other musicians territories because there doesn't really seem to be any of them (plus, for now, I'm looking more at unpaid gigs, just for the fun of playing and to hopefully start getting some sort of rep).

Still, though, beaumont, your points are very well taken and I think there's a lot of wisdom in there for me to process.

[mr. beaumont]

And I hope not to sound too harsh in my comments either--there are gigs out there that will always be (and have always been) solo gigs. A playing with backing tracks on a tiny stage he barely fits on himself is stealing gigs from no band.

As an artistic choice, I choose not to do backing tracks for my solo gigs--I'm lucky that solo guitar is something I spent a lot of time with and I can play a whole gig like that. I'm not going to knock the person who doesn't do that though. My only beef comes when I see amateurs out there (and I'm an amateur, so I'm talking about my peers, not talking down about some "lower class" musicians) who sell their abilities cheap and take gigs away from better musicians who are doing it to make a living. You see, at the end of the day, getting a gig with a group has to do with talent, but getting that group a gig at a venue does not. It's about making money. Plain and simple. It's a business.

There's no way to police this, and no way to tell what people are really doing. I just take confidence that, if I stay "altruistic" with my gigging procedures, I'll be allowed to call a few tunes at that big jam session in the sky.

So I got that goin' for me. Which is nice.

[paynow]

Paynow, I have played the Gris in the past, but the duo I was presenting was "too sophisticated" for the room, not something I haven't heard before. Of course, living on the CT shoreline, I travel extensively to do any meaningful jazz work, running the Boston-Baltimore axis with either my Flamenco-jazz trio Vuélo or my World Music trio Trio Amaroso. I also do a lot of solo work, from senior facilities to restaurants, clubs, and concert halls. My main rig is the Bose L1 system, I have 3 for band work, but generally 1 is plenty for the trio stuff, I use Digitech pedals for effects and looping, vocals direct into the Bose with no effects. My guitars are set up with RMC pickups for acoustic sounds and driving a synth: electric is a tricked-out Samick Royale 3 with Duncan and RMC pickups, acoustic is an Aparicio Flamenco with RMC pickup. For 7-strings, I have a Bartolex nylon with a Fishman Presys (soon to be replaced by RMC) and a hand-made archtop by Sal Pace, with EMG and Roland synth pups. My concert/recording guitars are by Lester Devoe, two of the finest Flamenco guitars in the world.

I agree fully with you on the reacting with other players thing, I really miss it when I have to use tracks, but, since I am a full-time performer, I need to do what it takes to eat and keep on playing. Fortunately, I do get a fair amount of work with groups, including a local big band, great for keeping the reading chops up, as well as corporate and casino work. The looping thing is brand-new to me, but I am already finding all sorts of ways to make it interesting, including putting my percussionist into the looper with me via a small mixer.

And it's a great way to put DJs out of work.

I had forgotten about the casinos up that way; my Dad (bassist) used to do big band work up there back in the early 90s. Too sophisticated for the Gris? What are they looking for, sea shanty's and whaling songs? I always thought that would be the perfect room for jazz and I'd love to hear some while eating my hunt breakfast. Their loss I guess. Wouldn't mind hearing some jazz at Custy's as well. I miss all those places.

Ron, I see exactly where you're coming from on this. I really admire the amount of work you put in to make a living. That's great. I still have to learn how to loop, so you're way ahead of me.

[mbmmamba]

In the beginning there was the Voice.
Then came the Drum.
Then came the Guitar.
Now we have laptops and loopers.

I'd say if you made the backing track yourself, then the laptop or whatever is just another musical instrument. You still remain as the musician. Otherwise we may as well do away with wah wah pedals, amplifiers and other machines that make our music sound better.

[cosmic gumbo]

Mrs. Zuckerbraun has a gig down at the Intergalactic Waffle Shack, playing her Lowrey Magic Genie organ, the original band in a can. She specializes in singing and playing the Disney animated songbook. Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Jungle Book, etc. She is awesome to listen to while you're stuffing your face.

[EightString]

I use backing tracks (which I created myself, btw) for gigging, but I won't even leave the house for less than $250-$300. But it seems venues are willing to pay that or more, and always specifically for my voice.

So I'm not exactly undercutting local acts with my price, and the fact that I use backing tracks has little to no bearing on why I'm getting hired, other than the fact that the backing tracks are good enough so that they support what I'm doing well enough, and don't distract the audience with unwanted cheese.

so there it is.

[cosmic gumbo]

No disrespect, it i$ what it i$.

[KeyLime]

I use backing tracks (which I created myself, btw) for gigging, but I won't even leave the house for less than $250-$300. But it seems venues are willing to pay that or more, and always specifically for my voice.

So I'm not exactly undercutting local acts with my price, and the fact that I use backing tracks has little to no bearing on why I'm getting hired, other than the fact that the backing tracks are good enough so that they support what I'm doing well enough, and don't distract the audience with unwanted cheese.

so there it is.

I'm in awe of you. I will name my firstborn "EightString."

[EightString]

I'm in awe of you. I will name my firstborn "EightString."

Haha... might want to save the baby-naming until if and when you hear me perform.

'Cause everyone is a badass... on the Internet.

[brwnhornet59]

Haha... might want to save the baby-naming until if and when you hear me perform.

'Cause everyone is a badass... on the Internet.

NICE!!!!

[Reg]

I've played Shows... where recorded music was used, click tracks etc..., I've even played some gigs with DJs and recorded music... groove shit etc... was fun, young audiences, very live energy... I've never played a jazz gig where recorded music of any kind was used... I'm fairly sure I never will... it would be more of a show... Reg

[Stevebol]

Didn't know musicians were using backing tracks to do jazz. How do they do it without laughing? I couldn't.
Suddenly, I understand strippers much more than I used to.

[EightString]

So where do some of you guys study your lip-curls and eye-rolls? Your technique is really next-level stuff.

[KeyLime]

So where do some of you guys study your lip-curls and eye-rolls? Your technique is really next-level stuff.

Eastwood and Brando movies for the lips curls. The Jack Benny Show for the eye rolls.

Just messin' with you Bro.

I just think most guys consider Jazz as being done on authentic musical instruments by real people. Computers don't sound like people.

[EightString]

Eastwood and Brando movies for the lips curls. The Jack Benny Show for the eye rolls.

Just messin' with you Bro.

I just think most guys consider Jazz as being done on authentic musical instruments by real people. Computers don't sound like people.

No worries. I'm pretty well teflon'ed up. I always get razzed when I talk about this stuff online.

[Reg]

Hey man... Why don't you post a video or sample of what your talking about...
I'm just curious about what we're talking about... Reg

[EightString]

Hey man... Why don't you post a video or sample of what your talking about...
I'm just curious about what we're talking about... Reg

I'll post some video clips in the near future so you can see what's live and what's memorex.

[brwnhornet59]

I look forward to Hearing it Eight!!!

[Stevebol]

If the use of backing tracks is an issue then maybe it say's something about the ability of jazz guitarists, and musicians in general and their ability to communicate with other musicians. The only thing to do is to adapt. I'm going to get off the chord-melody solo stuff I've been working on and spend more time learning regular comping and other things that will help me to work with other musicians, guitarists in particular, more effectively.

[EightString]

If the use of backing tracks is an issue then maybe it say's something about the ability of jazz guitarists, and musicians in general and their ability to communicate with other musicians. The only thing to do is to adapt. I'm going to get off the chord-melody solo stuff I've been working on and spend more time learning regular comping and other things that will help me to work with other musicians, guitarists in particular, more effectively.

After decades worth of time in the business, I certainly have the ability to communicate with other musicians in a band situation, I just no longer have the desire.

[jmstritt]

Not to put gas on a fire, but...

What is so wrong with someone playing solo jazz guitar?

Forget about the artistic merits of using tracks, or loops, or whatever else. Why is it nessecary?

You see folks all the time playing solo piano in nice restuarants, etc. Why not the same with guitar? I would love to walk into a nice joint to eat and hear somebody in the Johnny Smith type of mold playing standards. I think most people would dig it too, what difference does it make if it is a guitar or a piano? Heck, George Van Eps was once quoted as saying his approach to playing guitar was to play, "Lap piano."

I have done a couple solo guitar gigs and though I am no Johnny Smith, still got a nice receptions. Also did a couple with just me and a vocalist that went very nicely as well.

I think that it is all how you present it. If you take the attitude of, "Well for $X I can't afford to bring a band so you're just going to get me." Heck of course you won't get the gig! If you approach them with, "I play solo jazz guitar that would really compliment the ambience that you are going for here." You will be much more warmly recieved. Like it or not, salesmanship is part of being a musician if you want to work.

You can't just be alone with your principals, but you can present you principals in a new light that makes it more sexy. That is how we are able to turn more people on to what we do! By showing them that it is a viable art form and that it is something that is just as relevant now as it ever was.

[EightString]

I choose to not look at it as an either/or situation. For much of my current gigging, I prefer the sound of a trio or quartet as support for my singing, but I can and have gigged countless times with just a guitar and my voice.

Also, I certainly love walking into a club and hearing someone playing some beautiful solo chord-melody stuff on guitar. Ain't nothing wrong with that!

But am I somehow less of a musician because I'm embracing technology to create arrangements and a sound that I like, making myself less dependent on others' flaky schedules and idiosyncrasies in the process?

Painstakingly, from scratch, create your own arrangements and backing tracks to hundreds of songs and get back to me in a few years on that one. I'll wait.

[derek]

I've spent too much time working on my solo chops to add a loop or tracks. Others wanna do that, fine. For me, I prefer to do it live warts and all, with just what comes out of my guitar.