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  1. #51
    TommyD Guest
    There's another approach to sight reading which I've been working on for some time *. It has the additional value of increasing hand skills on guitar. It is buying a book on elementary classical guitar playing (My bet is that most of us already have one somewhere down in that pile of music books we never look at), and playing every lesson in it at a faster-than-recommended rate, because after all, we already have pretty good playing skills, right?
    By the time you are finished you will be able to recognize most chords and single-note progressions at sight. The only danger with the method is that you may find yourself becoming addicted to classical guitar and the music that goes with it, then you'll have to fight off GAS, lest you mortgage your house to go out and buy a Hermann Hauser guitar! In case you've never heard one, here is a Hauser.


    Incidentally, it's a little tougher, but you don't need a classical guitar to learn to finger-pick properly.

    best,
    tommy/

    * My brother, a jazz pianist, was playing Round Midnight one time, with heart-breakingly luscious chords. I told him how beautiful the arrangement was. He said, "Oh. Thanks. I've been working on it for about ten years." (!)

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    I find sight reading classical guitar pieces (up to level 4) much easier than reading jazz pieces. And more fun also. I read classical music much better than jazz... My classical reading didn't translate to jazz that well.


    I think jazz is difficult because of the frequent key changes and/or nondiatonic notes and the syncopation.
    Last edited by fep; 08-24-2010 at 01:38 PM.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    I find sight reading classical guitar pieces (up to level 4) much easier than reading jazz pieces. And more fun also. I read classical music much better than jazz... My classical reading didn't translate to jazz that well.


    I think jazz is difficult because of the frequent key changes and/or nondiatonic notes and the syncopation.
    I totally agree. Terrega, Sor, Bach, et al., are much easier to read than Hammerstein, Kern & Jobim.

    I had much better reading chops when I was pursuing classical.

  5. #54

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    Derek, I didn't mean to come off as argumentative or defensive. I just figured I'd clarify what I meant by my definition with sight reading. And you are right, pure sight reading or sight unseen is probably not something that normally happens.

    Reg, you have a great point about recognizing melodic lines and rhythms and all of the similarities that go along with that. I believe that the real issue here isn't that guitar players can't sight read at varying levels, but that most guitar players don't read music.

    Truth is, you don't need to learn to read music to play guitar. Most people don't ever learn it. Tablature is good enough for most players. Especially the ones I see around here most often*.

    For this forum, I think you get a different collection of folks/players. Most all of us can/want to learn to read music and get better at it. So, for us, sight reading is an intellectual pursuit at least and a professional skill at most.

    ~DB


    Footnotes:
    *You know, the guy who is in his mid forties/fifties and can't afford a sports car to support his mid life crisis so he learns to play sixties and seventies rock on an overpriced Fendor strat and amp setup and joins a band of other guys like him. They usually don't have a bass player cause nobody wants to play bass. And the drummer drew the short straw. Their audience consists mostly of family members and that one, weird lady that comes to all their shows and dances the same rhythm to every song (regardless of tempo) in a rainbow colored tube top she got from the "vintage" clothing store and a pair of "skinny" jeans a six year old can't get into...All while smoking her fourth pack of cigarettes that night.

  6. #55

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    Hey TommyD... How goes... yea... the trial and error method does work, thats the way I started as a kid, up to HS, then started playing Jazz. And the hand skill thing works as long as you have proper technique... which does become a problem, different techniques for different styles of music. But main problem I've seen at all types of gigs... this goes for great readers as well as those who struggle... when they don't understand the big picture, the style of chart , the way accent patterns on multi-levels, rhythmically as well as harmonically and melodically function... groove, as compared to playing the notes and articulations etc... well... that's why I believe understanding what your playing is as important as "memorize and play". Most of the professional musicians I know are well informed, have great cogitative abilities and we usually help each other at gigs etc... We want the ensemble to sound good. I know your brothers comment was somewhat a joke, most talented musicians down play their abilities... but if you don't practice what it takes to get complete pictures in music you may not play that beautiful arrangement. Then again you could get lucky. I guess what I'm saying is, one can play a "heart-breaking, luscious chordal arrangement of "Round Midnight", because one understands what makes those chordal structures work or create that luscious effects and use your emotions of the moment to express those feelings... or you can memorize examples of what works and do the same... They obviously both work, but getting back to sight reading , it's pretty easy to apply those techniques when you understand what your playing while sight reading, I believe it's more difficult, when using memory... By the way I dig your expression of your brothers playing, and most of what I'm BS about is not directed toward you.. Sorry... It's more general info. for younger players...
    Best Reg

  7. #56

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    Some folks is happy being just a geetar player, but some decide they want to become a real musician. Then it's time to learn to read the language of music. I never heard anyone say they were sorry they learned to sight read.

    The big band I play in doesn't hand out new charts to play at some future rehearsal, we just attack them with no preparation. There's usually no need to run through a new chart more than twice to work things out. Most pit gigs I've done will hand out the book for the show at the first rehearsal. It's usually 3 paid rehearsals- Tues, Wed, then a public dress rehearsal on Thu, then opening night on Fri. This is for 90 minutes of music. There's no way to be this productive if you can't read. The reward at this stage, is that you spend so much more time performing, rather than learning songs and rehearsing.

  8. #57

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    Best argument for reading so far, CG.

    ~DB

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny View Post
    Best argument for reading so far, CG.

    ~DB
    I suppose, if you accept the assumption that a geetar player is only a musician if they can sight read.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzaluk View Post
    I suppose, if you accept the assumption that a geetar player is only a musician if they can sight read.
    You know, nobody even thinks twice if a piano player can read, or questions if an oboe player, or a violinist is musically literate. They don't even have to ask, it's naturally assumed. It's so "duh" that one of most BASIC and ESSENTIAL requirements of being a musician is to be able to sight read music.

    My teacher still says, "95% of guitarists are morons". Of course, he was able to take advantage of this in the 50s and 60s, when he practically "lived in the studios" in huge demand as a a session musician.

    Why was he in huge demand for studio work? Because he was an expert sight reader, which helped make him into a consummate pro who could play the part right, the first time, without mistakes and such.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzaluk View Post
    I suppose, if you accept the assumption that a geetar player is only a musician if they can sight read.
    I accept that premise.

    A guitar player might make good music even without begin able to read, but I would not classify them as an actual musician. I say this as someone who used to think he knew a lot about music, and considered himself a musician...until I actually started learning theory and how to read and ear training and all that stuff. Looking back, I didn't know jack.

    Of course, anyone is free to call themselves a musician if they want - it'snot a regulated term like "doctor" or "certified engineer." But then, I'm free to my own opinion of their musicianship.

  12. #61

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    What's studio work got to do with jazz? your supposed make it up as you go along, that's what makes you an artist as apposed to a muso.I dont think there where many jazz greats back in the day that could sight read,maybe Johnny Smith. Why do we need to learn it now? we still play the same standards. I't's ear to hands not eye..

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
    What's studio work got to do with jazz? your supposed make it up as you go along, that's what makes you an artist as apposed to a muso.I dont think there where many jazz greats back in the day that could sight read,maybe Johnny Smith. Why do we need to learn it now? we still play the same standards. I't's ear to hands not eye..
    Are you serious? Duke Ellington couldn't sight read? Louis Armstrong couldn't sight read? Miles Davis couldn't sight read?? I really, really doubt that.

  14. #63

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    Let's look at it this way: Everyone who knows how to make one note (regardless of tuning or context) on any instrument (including their voice) is a musician*. But, there are several different skills in musicianship and an infinite number of levels to each of those skills.

    So, a guitarist can't read music notation or sight read. Is he still a musician? Yes, he can make music. A person who can speak clearly and be understood but can't write isn't mute, just illiterate.

    Musicians who want to become masters do learn everything they can about music, its accepted notation, and how that applies towards their instrument of choice. Eventually, we call these musicians Masters. And they have earned that title.

    ~DB

    * I have personal trouble calling some vocalists (primarily those in my church choir) musicians.

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    Are you serious? Duke Ellington couldn't sight read? Louis Armstrong couldn't sight read? Miles Davis couldn't sight read?? I really, really doubt that.
    Doubting what I say is one thing, proving what you say is an other. As I have stated you need ears not eyes,imo..

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
    Doubting what I say is one thing, proving what you say is an other. As I have stated you need ears not eyes,imo..
    Larry, you made the initial assertion that the old jazz greats couldn't sight read. So, the onus of proof would be on you. But if it makes you feel better, you did know that Miles Davis went to Juilliard, right? And that Duke Ellington studied with Oliver Perry, a conservatory-trained pianist? If those guys couldn't read and read well, I would be very surprised.

  17. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    Are you serious? Duke Ellington couldn't sight read? Louis Armstrong couldn't sight read? Miles Davis couldn't sight read?? I really, really doubt that.
    Well, Duke was not a good sight reader. Brilliant composer and arranger, but never actually wrote out his own parts.

    This post is not meant to support the non-reading position, merely to clarify.

    I am a staunch advocate of musical literacy for players of all instruments.

    On the other hand, I believe that many classically trained musicians fail to embrace improvisation or playing by ear.

    My arranging teacher in college wrote a piece for Duke to perform with a studio orchestra in Canada. He told me Ellington kept getting lost during the rehearsals, so when it actually came time to record, he just cued the solo spots.

  18. #67

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    Reading and understanding music is a skill. "Sight-reading" is a separate discipline which I do admire but I do not confer any special halo of musicianship to someone who reads music from a sheet. Its seems that all my favorite geetar players do not do this when they perform.

    I can sight read a novel... it doesn't make me a novelist.

  19. #68

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    Alright, well this is just getting pedantic and counter-productive, so I'll just leave it at "I think sight reading is important."

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    Alright, well this is just getting pedantic and counter-productive, so I'll just leave it at "I think sight reading is important."
    Sorry man. I didn't mean to be counter-productive. Just a view from a different perspective.

    This thread has called guitar players who can't SIGHT-read lazy, limited, amateur and non-musicians. In my small reptilian brain... that is counter-productive for a jazz guitar forum. Not all jazz guitar players strive for the studio, big bands and entry into the "U of Whatever". There is a whole world of improvisation and interpretation that is being conveniently ignored where sight reading plays a very small role.

    Besides, alternative views prevent group-think.

  21. #70

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    Hey Jazzaluk... I believe were simply trying to get young players to include sight reading as part of playing jazz... Playing jazz is very different today as compared to late 60's and back. I read back then but didn't see that many charts. Jazz theory was being defined and explained as compared to now... it's common knowledge if you want to know... There were not as many tunes or different forms for tunes as we see now at gigs.... I won't bore, but would you really tell a young guitarist not to bother with sight reading?
    Best Reg

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    .... I won't bore, but would you really tell a young guitarist not to bother with sight reading?
    Best Reg
    Not at all. I would certainly encourage any guitar player to learn and understand how to read music but as for the skill of sight-reading, I would leave it to them to determine how it fits with their aspirations and expectations. I certainly wouldn't criticize their musicianship if they decided to build their style or approach around someone like, lets say, Joe Pass. I think there is still room for that in the jazz world.

    I should say that I am satisfied with my ability to read and understand music but I am far from an accomplished sight-reader. I actually find it a bit boring. In fact, that is why I was attracted to jazz improvisation and interpretation. Its enough for this geetarist.

    Anyway... I think I have teased this animal too much.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzaluk View Post

    I should say that I am satisfied with my ability to read and understand music but I am far from an accomplished sight-reader. I actually find it a bit boring. In fact, that is why I was attracted to jazz improvisation and interpretation. Its enough for this geetarist.
    I used to feel exactly the same way about reading. I knew enough to be able to figure out most anything, and that was a step above most of the musicians I played with. But these were also the same type of musicians that had to spend weeks and weeks to learn songs and rehearse before they could pull off a 3 hour gig.

    One day I got invited to play with some outstanding working musicians, because they heard I could read. I showed up, and they handed me a stack of original charts they played. I tried to fake my way through it, but it was embarrasing. They said it was too bad, because they were thinking of hiring a guitarist. I told them I could get up to speed after a few rehearsals, and they said "what rehearsals"? Either you're ready, or you're not.

    I understand that some guitarists have no desire to operate at this level, but there is something to be said about being able to gig with good musicians, with few or no rehearsals. Many earlier groups I had been in never survived the rehearsal process long enough to make it to the gigging level. Haven't alot of you been in that same place? It sucks to waste time going through that. No more.
    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 08-25-2010 at 09:16 PM.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    I used to feel exactly the same way about reading. I knew enough to be able to figure out most anything, and that was a step above most of the musicians I played with. But these were also the same type of musicians that had to spend weeks and weeks to learn songs and rehearse before they could pull off a 3 hour gig.

    One day I got invited to play with some outstanding working musicians, because they heard I could read. I showed up, and they handed me a stack of original charts they played. I tried to fake my way through it, but it was embarrasing. They said it was too bad, because they were thinking of hiring a guitarist. I told them I could get up to speed after a few rehearsals, and they said "what rehearsals"? Either you're ready, or you're not.

    I understand that some guitarists have no desire to operate at this level, but there is something to be said about being able to gig with good musicians, with few or no rehearsals. Many earlier groups I had been in never survived the rehearsal process long enough to make it to the gigging level. Haven't alot of you been in that same place? It sucks to waste time going through that. No more.
    Good for you man. On the one hand, I agree wholeheartedly! On the other... more gigs for me!

  25. #74

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    I'm with FatJeff all the way...and most of the old-timey musicians COULD read. It's important to sort out reality from urban legend!!

    Sailor

  26. #75

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    Ahh CG... now you're just making me feel bad,

    Seriously... I certainly don't feel qualified to argue the benefits of sight-reading with a working pro who wants to work with other pros at the top of their game. Like every endeavor, to play in the big league you need to develop certain skills. But for every pro there are hundreds if not thousands of amateurs who enjoy the game just as much.

    Although, I have to say, that even with pros, the performances I enjoy the most are the ones where there is no sheet music in sight. My favorite Montreal guitarist is Greg Clayton. He can play three hours of captivating BeBop (Jazz Standards) from memory. That's a whole different discipline, and equally as valid.

    Again... I am just offering a perspective. Maybe the number one reason guitar players are poor sight readers is because the majority just don't want to.

    PS: I totally respect all the pros out there (Reg. NSJ Cosmic, Jake etc) as I do the amateurs. Its a challenge at all levels. All the Best

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzaluk View Post

    Although, I have to say, that even with pros, the performances I enjoy the most are the ones where there is no sheet music in sight. My favorite Montreal guitarist is Greg Clayton. He can play three hours of captivating BeBop (Jazz Standards) from memory. That's a whole different discipline, and equally as valid.
    Another skill I wish I had. :-( Ah well, I'm getting better, so it's probably just a matter of time.

  28. #77

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    quote=Jazzaluk;94649] My favorite Montreal guitarist is Greg Clayton. He can play three hours of captivating BeBop (Jazz Standards) from memory.
    ... and you know Greg can read anything!

  29. #78
    TommyD Guest
    Hey fellas! I have an idea! Let's debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!
    tommy/

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyD View Post
    Hey fellas! I have an idea! Let's debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!
    tommy/
    No more than 20, I can tell you that.

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    No more than 20, I can tell you that.
    Yeah but can they read a chart if you put it in front of them?

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Hey Jazzaluk... I believe were simply trying to get young players to include sight reading as part of playing jazz... Playing jazz is very different today as compared to late 60's and back. I read back then but didn't see that many charts. Jazz theory was being defined and explained as compared to now... it's common knowledge if you want to know... There were not as many tunes or different forms for tunes as we see now at gigs.... I won't bore, but would you really tell a young guitarist not to bother with sight reading?
    Best Reg
    Personaly I think it's a straight jacket,Jazz is improvised swinging music,how can you do all that and sight read ( I can't ) I bet Jeff can though. Wes got away without reading,let alone sight reading.I'll except the fact that there are scholars out there who do approach the music in that way,I'm affaid I'm not one of them.LG.

  33. #82

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    Good afternoon, all...
    Where to start? I am one of the 'hundreds or thousands' referred to by Jazzaluk. I don't get that much satisfaction from my reading attempts, except, as with all challenges that I take on, I wouldn't do it if I didn't want to.
    The motivation? For me (complete amateur, no pretentions for any career or professional competence...) is, having acquired the Joe Pass method, to be able to benefit. It's all on a stave. I'm working at it (with Mickey Baker, I & II, also written out that way...).
    The time I have (choose...) to spend is finite; I got much more to progress with and understand from a 1 hour video of Joe Pass than I shall get from 3 months with the sheet music (and a bonus dose of belly laughs from the 'fluffs' and asides on the tape ...'I never noticed this guitar had 22 frets before..?'. Hilarious...). I'll do the work, as best as possible, as I'm stubborn, but for me, it's not an efficient way of going to where I want to be. Mickey Baker is similar; the web site, with it's Guitar Pro compatible files is marvellous. makes things clear faster (that's the original reason for writing out the scores in the first place...). Isn't it rather the result that counts, than the means?

    Aimer est le grand point, qu'importe la maîtresse ? Qu'importe le flacon, pourvu qu'on ait l'ivresse ?
    Alfred de Musset
    Extract from La coupe et les lèvres

    That's why I don't read (or at least, very badly...). I don't think I'm alone (not that that ever stopped me doing what I do...). I can't read Latin or Greek in the original, either; there are gems for classic scholars that I shall never know in there, as the modern English translations are not as profound, apparently, as the original text. Tough on me, but I'll live.

    Was that worth 2 cents? (Money Orders, cheques or PayPal accepted...)

    Incidentally, I'm not sure that this is the right thread or forum for the arithmetic question on celestial dancing (or have I missed something..?)
    Have a nice day

    Dad3353 (Douglas...)

  34. #83

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    I love how people (even people who play jazz) say that jazz is improvised. That is technically incorrect.

    I can play a jazz chart (either reading or from memory) and it not be improvised at all; including a solo. Just like sight-reading is one part of musicianship, improvisation is one part of jazz.

    If we define jazz as improvised, then that is a slippery slope leading to the declaration of all "jazz standards" as not really jazz since if it is written down or memorized, then it isn't improvised.

    Further, you can improvise in plenty of other genres of music. Beethoven was known to improvise melodies as he composed, yet we don't call it jazz. Blue grass players, while playing a descendant of jazz, improvise all the time but I've known some to slap you if you say it sounds "jazzy".

    ~DB

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny View Post
    If we define jazz as improvised, then that is a slippery slope leading to the declaration of all "jazz standards" as not really jazz since if it is written down or memorized, then it isn't improvised.
    Come, come... Improvisation plays a major rôle in jazz -- how's that? Not all aspects of jazz are improvised and not all improvised music is jazz.

    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny View Post
    Further, you can improvise in plenty of other genres of music. Beethoven was known to improvise melodies as he composed, yet we don't call it jazz. Blue grass players, while playing a descendant of jazz, improvise all the time but I've known some to slap you if you say it sounds "jazzy".
    Slap you ... on the back! Yee-haw!

  36. #85

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    I think maybe improvisation is the wrong word, perhaps extemporise would be more approriate, John Coltrane called it extrapolation,-"new lamps for old". I think the swing element sets jazz apart from other musical genres.. Back to sight reading, what about blind jazz musicians like Lennie Tristano; surely they would have to rely solely on their aural senses.LG..

  37. #86

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    Speaking from one who has put in the time... into becoming a musician. Playing is not a struggle or challenge, it's very enjoyable. The improvisational part of jazz I enjoy is the interaction between players with the skills,( instrumental abilities, have the ears and are able to use them, understand theory well enough to know when something's implied, where it could go, where it usually goes and always know where the groove is). This interaction can be on tune from memory or from a chart we see for the first time. Sight reading is not a straight jacket... that's a silly analogy, how does that work... some one who is able to read , which for some reason is difficult for most guitarist, can't cover the easy skills. Most of the professional rhythm section players I know or run into at all types of gigs, (were not talking about traditional or commonly referred to as classical players, I'm referring to jazz players), Know how to read... and they all can definitely covers the performance skills. What jazz players are able to do is read the chart and also hear what might be implied by the chart. That might be reflection or interpretation of whats been played before or improvise what might work, all the time being aware of context. All this being said... I play gigs with non-reading musicians, or those who struggle with charts and have a great time... Don't let one of the many reasons for not being able sight read be an excuse for not being able to sight read. If you don't want to SR... don't... It sure seems like more would come from explaining theoretical differences between b13 and #5, how to develop harmonic phrasing skills or different re-harmonization techniques and how to apply them to your soloing or comping, rather than philosophical differences... Best Reg

  38. #87

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    Paul, that article does make some great points. I'd agree that guitarist came to notation and notation came to piano.

    Larry, I'll go with supporting reading notation and sight reading as individual skills within the realm of being a musician. Obviously someone who has the physical limitation of not being able to see notation can't master that skill set (at least not as we would understand it). But, I will stand beside the simple fact that a good musician will do everything they can to be a better musician. My experience is that a blind musician will typically kick any other musician's but at playing by ear. Why, because THEY PRACTICE IT ALL THE TIME! If I practiced sight reading at the same pace, I'd master it too!

    Reg, in your posts you make some good points. I just wish I could read them.

    ~DB

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob32069 View Post
    #1 reason guitarists are poor sight readers: tablature

    i've never seen saxophone tablature
    I'm sure tablature is a part of it. I was useless at sight-reading until I joined a classical guitar ensemble at a local university. I showed up to the first class late, clearly the oldest person there, with a broken nose, carrying an archtop and with only the knowledge that the "spaces" in the treble clef represent FACE...It was a hard course for me, but that's what it took for me to learn to sight-read.

    But I digress. My theory for why guitarists are poor sight readers (and often poor at many things musically): open chords. New guitarists start by learning open chords rather than notes. This is terrible for technique but also for knowing any notes on the guitar other than the open strings and the first 3 frets of the low E and A strings. And the more they play open chords, the less they are willing to learn anything else.

    On the flip side, however, I only know one classically trained pianist (out of the 20 or so that I know) that can improvise even just a single bar of music...At least most guitarists can wail a little on the blues scale, and of course Django and Wes' inability to read music didn't seem to hold them back too much...

    My sight-reading still stinks, but I think it's pretty low-priority so I only spend about 15 minutes a day working on reading music (i.e. unfamiliar pieces).
    Last edited by coolvinny; 08-28-2010 at 06:08 PM.

  40. #89

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    Sheesh, you guys are overlooking the obvious.
    Carrots, more carrots.

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    You know, nobody even thinks twice if a piano player can read, or questions if an oboe player, or a violinist is musically literate. They don't even have to ask, it's naturally assumed. It's so "duh" that one of most BASIC and ESSENTIAL requirements of being a musician is to be able to sight read music.
    Not so. And I'm wearying of this guitar-centric world view, guitarists aren't that special.

    The only BASIC, ESSENTIAL requirement of being a musician is to be able to make music. OK, I recognize unintended hyperbole when I see it, and I accept that one of the most basic, essential requirements of being a fully-rounded, Western trained musician is being able to sight-read music. So are having at least one second instrument, an understanding of sonata form, the ability to write arrangements with four voices and being able to conduct a small choir, among other things. That doesn't mean we should dismiss those who haven't got that kind of musical background as some kind of sub-musician. My dear old daddy, for example, couldn't read a note, but played a boogie-woogie piano that could get your dead grandparents up and dancing, and could coax a tune out of practically any instrument if left alone with it for five minutes. Very few flamenco guitarists are acquainted with musical notation. How many Irish fiddle players have we known who could just blow those conservatory types off a stage? And so on. These are not non-musicians, I'm talking about good musicians who would probably make most of us look woefully inadequate in a real-world performance situation, including those of us with advanced sight-reading skills.

    I'm not denying that sight reading is tremendously useful, and there is no real excuse for not acquiring some reading ability. Neither is there any excuse for not being able to play by ear, or follow chord charts, come to that.

  42. #91

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    JGR,
    Your "dear old daddy" didn't have TAB... he had ears! Same with the fiddlers you mentioned.
    That's why they can play the way they do. They had to work for it.

  43. #92

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    Well said JohnRoss.

    RonD...Of course they had to work for it...you have to work for everything in music. The question is, where should you apply your effort. For some, the skill of sight reading may be essential to hang with the "real musicians", for others there may be more value added in developing an ear and acumen for improvisation.

  44. #93

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    Funny vid... Hey John... what do you call a good guitar player who can cover most performance skills but not sight reading. Then what do you call a good guitarist who covers performance skills and can read well. Then what do you call a guitarist with good performance skills, can read well, can cover on lets say three other instruments. Understands traditional music theory as well as jazz theory, can compose in traditional instrumental and vocal forms as well as jazz and pop etc... I'm taking for granted, being able to play by ear as one of the performance skills. This could be the start of great guitar player joke.... I've changed my direction....what ever you do don't waste time on sight reading... I know it's too late for many of you, but don't spread the sickness, there might not be a cure. Mind reading could be the next great performance skill, and no tabs needed... sorry I don't know where I'm going... best Reg

  45. #94

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    That video is awesome.

    ~DB

  46. #95
    nullnaught Guest
    Tablature has ruined me.

  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Funny vid... Hey John... what do you call a good guitar player who can cover most performance skills but not sight reading. Then what do you call a good guitarist who covers performance skills and can read well. Then what do you call a guitarist with good performance skills, can read well, can cover on lets say three other instruments. Understands traditional music theory as well as jazz theory, can compose in traditional instrumental and vocal forms as well as jazz and pop etc... I'm taking for granted, being able to play by ear as one of the performance skills. This could be the start of great guitar player joke.... I've changed my direction....what ever you do don't waste time on sight reading... I know it's too late for many of you, but don't spread the sickness, there might not be a cure. Mind reading could be the next great performance skill, and no tabs needed... sorry I don't know where I'm going... best Reg
    They say a Lobotomy works wonders..

  48. #97

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    Sight-READING is nothing. Sight-SINGING, on the other hand. Now you're talking about music!! Sing all that shit!!

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves View Post


    They say a Lobotomy works wonders..
    After last few nights gigs, I can't remember... but I think... no.. I feel... as though I might have been through the procedure. Wait... is this the bridge...
    Is that Stevie in the audience...
    Reg
    Hey... how do you sight sing with out sight reading.......(fake it, no one will know)
    Last edited by Reg; 08-29-2010 at 11:11 AM.

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by franco6719 View Post
    Sight-READING is nothing. Sight-SINGING, on the other hand. Now you're talking about music!! Sing all that shit!!
    I think the reason jazz has nose dived is it's mainly instumental,everybody sings. The rock guitarists back vocalists, correct me if I'm wrong..

  51. #100
    I like to read. I like the fact that notes occur on multiple places on the neck.
    It ends up being like "The Count" on Sesame Street, who loves to count.
    Lots of people like math. It applies to inteervals, to lots of stuff. There's definitely a math element.
    But .........
    A while ago, I met somebody to play duets and Real Book tunes and ...
    I had a gruesome discovery:
    Although I could find the notes better than ever, I was helpless with complex rhythms.
    We played Desifinado and the quarter note triplets and other constructs derailed me.
    My point: Learn the notes but you WILL need to be able to read rhythms well.
    I have two possible resources for myself:
    1) Leavitt's Melodic Rhythms
    2) Louis Bellson's book, which I haven't obtained yet.
    Modern Reading Text in 4/4 For All Instruments