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In the words of AA, I spontaneously got tired of residing in dunning kruger valley so I rage quit Hammond and I'm going back to focusing on piano. It's the only instrument I've played where I think my music has artistic value.
TLDR:
I thought of what to do with my Hammond. Decided to keep it, because it's fun, I'd only recover like half its value if I sold it, and I injured my finger so I can't play bass and guitar anymore - only keys, so it would give some variety. I could always sell it later if I needed.
My instruments I've played ranked by ability from best to worst:
Piano - Something about it suits my ability and mentality. The only instrument I've played where I think my music has artistic value.
Bass - Was pretty good at supporting a group. I wasn't a virtuoso tho and couldn't do anything that interesting with it just on its own so it doesn't interest me.
Guitar - Was ok. Could do some good stuff against backing tracks. My facility is a little on the poor side so I can't grab all that fine and fast motor stuff with my left hand.
Organ - I think I'm decent and would sound good live in a group. But my solo recordings were sounding way too dunning kruger so I got tired of it.
Drums - Never able to keep my focus and I'm naturally kind of shoddy rhythmically.
Voice - The worst. I will never sing anything.
I injured my left index finger playing upright bass so I can't play bass and guitar anymore. I'm not friggin playing drums or vocals. So that leaves keys only. Unless I'm going to take up Sax or something, which I don't think I will. I'm pretty good melodically, but it's loud and I would have to learn the dang thing for years.
I really like Hammond. It's fun, and it's all groovy, bluesy, and soulful, but I wasn't happy with my recordings. I thought they weren't demonstrating the bit of artistry that I feel I have. I think it was a combo of the instrument not sounding great, and my facility and experience. The digital organ sounds kind of unauthentic, it sounds worse recorded lol, and it has tough feel to control, so that was a big disadvantage. Then I have less experience on it, and you have to play super tight rhythmically and time feel wise for it to sound good. That's challenging for me. I think I could get it, but it would take more experience. We'll see down the road.
So yeah that leaves piano. I have a limited amount of talent so I want to just focus on the thing I'm best at and develop that. I also like rock, but can't sing or play guitar, and I don't feel like being in a band, so that leaves jazz piano. Something about it suits my ability and mindset. I have enough facility to control the thing. You don't have to play super tight rhythmically like hammond for it to sound good, can use some rubato. And I'm emotive so it suits that. I'm keen to get some new recordings going if I can get my recording set up to work! Here is one of my old clips. Going through all my recordings of different instruments and different styles, I was like bro, the jazz piano are the only ones with value! Get it together! Haha
Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 04-09-2024 at 02:14 PM.
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04-09-2024 01:46 PM
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That piano clip sounds very, very good. You should stick with that.
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Thx
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some people that start on piano double on organ later, this has been especially true the last 20-25 yrs or so, especially among gigging musicians. but I know so many piano players that refuse to and all I hear them do is complain that organ players are taking 'their' gigs. In many group settings an organ eliminates the need/cost for a bass player [another group of musicians that complain about organ players taking their gigs] heck you can have a band just w/ organ and drums.
I had a B3 in the crib for about 10 years and loved the sound but knew I'd never get good enough to gig w/one so I just stuck w/ guitar, but if I had been primarily a piano player I might have pursued organ seriously as it's by far my favorite instrument after guitar. so I sold the B but kept one of the Leslie 122's and bought a used Hammond XK-2. I don't play it much either but it's great for rehearsals when real organ players come over and I can walk into my dining room again where the B was w/out that huge hunk of furniture getting in the way.
only you know what you want to do but the 'jack of all trades master of none' saying is my motto. any time I'd spend on another instrument would take away from guitar. some people may feel differently and just enjoy playing multiple instruments w/out the thought of mastering all of them. but I know a few cats that are quite good on 3 or 4 and those guys are constantly working.
if you're uncapable of playing stringed instruments anymore I'd go with your above thought and just keep the piano and Hammond and concentrate on those, but ymmv and probably does, good luck in your decision, though it sounds like you've already made it....
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Thx a lot for your write up. Yes, I share those views. It's such a nice instrument, deep down I could never get rid of it. The good thing is the skills for Hammond mostly transfer over to piano, and very well. Good time, rhythm, blues vocab - that will never sound bad on piano. So I can still work on Hammond and it won't really take away from piano. Back when I was trying to work on multiple instruments, I could absolutely tell that with my ability level I would be a jack of all trades, master of none. So yeah I will focus on piano and keep the Hammond around.
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I dunno, I think you've posted your organ playing here, right? I remember liking it. I hope that was you and not someone else...
I don't really think you can "hear" DK. I think more likely you're suffering from a bit of "impostor's syndrome," and I don't know any artist in any medium who's any good that hasn't gone through that.
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Thx. So hauling off and quitting Hammond is unnecessary.
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I sure wouldn't. I love jazz organ. I don't think there's enough of it out there.
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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I relate to your frustrations so much right now. I had a rehearsal Saturday and wasn’t feeling great and my playing.
Then I read Peter’s comment in the critique thread about compelling changes and time feel being 90% of what we work on… and I was like, wait, am I always going to feel like this after playing?!?
It’s got me a little rattled.
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I didn't like reading your bullshit excuses in the OP. You were getting lessons from Tony Monaco. Get the hell back in your practice space and get the Leslie spinning and man up already. What a load of crap. You weren't happy with your recordings so let's jump ship? Double down and get your dumbass back to work. I guess if we have no plans on gigging then playing tiddly winks is time just as well spent so whatever. Go be a quitter then. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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^ Lol!
I'm not quitting, DawgBone. Music is one of the most important things to me. That's why I want to focus on my strength so I can optimize the music I make. I think I low key sound like an artist on piano and I don't have that on organ or any other instrument I've played. And more practice probably won't change that. The good thing is if I do have it in me to excel at Hammond I can easily keep at it because the skills transfer over to piano and dividing practice time wouldn't hinder me at all in my keys progress.
Yeah, it's rough. You can just keep at it, time is part of the equation. You can do it because you have good taste. The only other thing is if your hands can physically do the music you want. You have to evaluate if you're on a road block technical skills wise. But a lot of jazz isn't behind a technical road block. A teacher would speed up the process. You can go every other week, $100 a month, and find a good guitarist anywhere that does online lessons. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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More practice changes EVERYTHING. Excuses sound best to the person making them and I am hearing a lot of those right now. Post a clip of your best Hammond work so I can compare it and see if I think you qualify to sport a pencil thin mustache and beret once you switch to the piano. I always cringe when I hear someone refer to themselves as an artist cause it's usually some half drunk dude in a shitty cover band.. That's not a title you assign yourself, that's something an audience assigns to you. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
I prefer a singular approach. Jack of all trades master of none has never held any appeal to me.
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I'll keep at it for you, DawgBone.
That's why I took up Hammond, it's more soulful, less fufu. I had burn outs on piano because of it being wimpy all the time. But my burn outs were also during my development when I wasn't as good. I have more experience on piano, I've been playing it on and off since 04. I only have about 5 years experience on Hammond and I think I have less natural aptitude for it. Originally Posted by DawgBone
You know what I mean. I'm not a cocky person. I'm just being realistic about what I sound good at. My ultimate goal in music has been to be able to play music, preferably by myself, that sounds attractive to any listener, musician or layperson. And I feel I've achieved that in this one area, jazz piano, by early middle age. I don't want to not utilize my strength and wait until late middle age or old age until I get good at organ. Jazz piano ain't a bad thing to have your aptitude in.I always cringe when I hear someone refer to themselves as an artist cause it's usually some half drunk dude in a shitty cover band.. That's not a title you assign yourself, that's something an audience assigns to you.
Like we established, I can work on both. The skills transfer over. Though, they transfer better from Hammond to piano than piano to Hammond.I prefer a singular approach. Jack of all trades master of none has never held any appeal to me.Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 04-09-2024 at 07:35 PM.
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Yeah, I'm working on lessons... but I might end up in voice lessons before guitar lessons. I've been trying to sing at gigs and its rough. These aren't like singing Rolling Stones tunes. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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We reached out to a "keys" player the other day about playing some B3. He says "well I really want to play piano". Um, you're posted up as a keys player looking for a gig to drop in your lap then when it does you want to dictate the terms. My name isn't Santa Claus. That took care of that. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
I guess my point in mentioning that was if you are shooting for making money as a keys player then I def wouldn't be quitting or selling the Hammond. Especially when you say it transfers better from Hammond to piano it seems like you're working backwards to reverse the approach. It sounds like you have determined your own aptitude when you haven't put the same kind of time into the B3. which to me seems like you're shorting yourself. Perhaps you're letting frustration with your progress interfere with a fair and accurate assessment of your skills? It's your world, and piano is great and all but right now the world is more short of guys who are truly competent on a B3 so I think you'd own a larger market share if that was your core focus. Just my two cents. I just didn't want you to quit. I'd like to quit and go be a mountain man, but I can't. It's like a bad habit now. I've gone too far and now there are no real career options for me and even if there were, I don't want them. I never anticipated that being the case....
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about the only thing that a Hammond and piano have in common are a keyboard.
I've seen excellent piano players try to sit in on Hammond many times and it's comical. I'm talkin about left hand bass, not w a huge assist from a bassist, and even w a bass player it ain't no cakewalk. you really have to have spent some time on a Hammond to even play it at all.
it's the exception to the rule that people start out on Hammond, the great Richard Groove Holmes being one.
my last organ player, rip Sonny, also started on Hammond and never really played serious piano. when a bassist wanted to sit in we almost had to tie his left hand down he was so used to playing the bass line.
and don't get me started on the pedals, a real organist uses pedals to accentuate certain notes in the bass line.
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Voice lessons>guitar lessons. I know many many guitar players who are playing for someone else who learnt to sing and they didn't. I was forced into it and man, 30 years later I am dang glad I took the pain then and not now because it opened up many opportunities. I still ain't any good IMO but I have my own group. I always advise young blues guys to put the guitar down and learn to sing otherwise you'll work for someone else. I don't think they listen to me though. Less competition that way is the upside I guess. *shrugs Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Did someone say Hammond?
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Haha Originally Posted by DawgBone
You're locked into being a pro musician.I'd like to quit and go be a mountain man, but I can't. It's like a bad habit now. I've gone too far and now there are no real career options for me and even if there were, I don't want them. I never anticipated that being the case....
That's a good point that you have a lot of opportunity as a Hammond player. I think I would do a decent job in a group but I'm not looking to get gigging right now, maybe later. I'll keep at it with the Hammond, I won't quit.I guess my point in mentioning that was if you are shooting for making money as a keys player then I def wouldn't be quitting or selling the Hammond. Especially when you say it transfers better from Hammond to piano it seems like you're working backwards to reverse the approach. It sounds like you have determined your own aptitude when you haven't put the same kind of time into the B3. which to me seems like you're shorting yourself. Perhaps you're letting frustration with your progress interfere with a fair and accurate assessment of your skills? It's your world, and piano is great and all but right now the world is more short of guys who are truly competent on a B3 so I think you'd own a larger market share if that was your core focus. Just my two cents. I just didn't want you to quit.
I remember when I first replied to an organ craigslist posting in 2010 without ever owning one, I couldn't play at all. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Skills go from organ to piano famously. Good tempo, good time feel, good rhythms, bass lines, blues vocabulary, chording with the right hand. You could only take Hammond skills and be good at piano, even if it wouldn't cover all the aspects of being an advanced piano player.
Skills go from piano to organ terribly. Left hand chords, rubato piano rhythms, fufu note choices lol.
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Not to mention you can sustain a note or chord on a Hammond until the cows come home but even w a pedal a piano's only gonna sustain so long. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Just found this album.
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Thx for the input everyone. I'm doing what you said and playing both. It's going well, I'm feeling cross training gains from them. The piano recordings are sounding good and maybe the Hammond recordings will be legit one day. I am having fun playing it tho and feel like I can get in the zone even if the recordings aren't good yet.
Back during my piano development and burn outs, weaknesses I was unhappy with were: weakness with crisp time feel, couldn't do shreds, couldn't do blues licks, and couldn't play in every key. Since my lessons with Tony, I've corrected all of them! So that's great.Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 04-11-2024 at 10:35 PM.
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How long was the journey across Dunning-Krueger Valley? Days, weeks, months, years? What was the trigger to rage quit, listening to a recording of yourself?
I have been wandering in this desert myself for 40 odd years, it's practically Semitic. Yet the path is well marked and smooth. I just keep fooling myself that it couldn't be that obvious, and going down side trails.
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I’m the poster child for imposter syndrome in every aspect of life, but you know you just keep chugging along, and eventually people say, you’re pretty good, keep doing what you’re doing.
I started on guitar, but I fell in love with the organ when I got into prog rock in the 70’s. Keith Emerson…Rick Wakeman…Jon Lord…I should’ve taken lessons, but there’s only some much time in the day.
A buddy of mine played pipe organ for several churches, and I helped him install an organ (a Hammond?) that he acquired from a church that switched from pipes to digital. He installed the thing and the pipes in his living room. Wow. He sounded like E. Power Biggs when he got that thing going. Not a jazzer, unfortunately. Bach was about as far out as he got.
There definitely aren’t enough organists. Keep at it!
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