Dunning Kruger valley

[RJVB]

Bach was about as far out as he got.

Can one get any further than that then? O:-)

Me I wouldn't get beyond this kind of organ playing

[Jimmy Smith]

How long was the journey across Dunning-Kruger Valley? Days, weeks, months, years? What was the trigger to rage quit, listening to a recording of yourself?

Pretty long and rough, about 20 years. Fortunately I think I've succeeded in my jazz piano playing. I'll tell you the full story.

I started on electric bass in high school in 2000. I studied music in college and got pretty good, learned upright bass, and took up piano during this time. At the end of college when I was focusing on bass I started to get burned out because I thought I couldn't play any actual music on bass and represent myself as a musician. Eventually quit bass after college. Started to be able to play jazz piano and show some talent during the end of college and after. But had burnouts due do my skills not being that good and being forced to focus on arty stuff all the time when I liked rock too. Focused on guitar in 2015 and wasn't too depressed about that because it was fun but I wasn't terribly good and had some dunning kruger. I even had some dunning kruger during this time thinking I would be able to produce full band original songs with voice. Nope! Lol. Dunning kruger strikes again. Eventually a finger injury put an end to guitar and bass so decided to focus back on keys. I decided to take up hammond in 2021 because it's more soulful than piano. I took lessons with Tony Monaco and thought I would be able to get my skills up shortly and be playing good. I guess not. My technical skills don't allow me to play with the rhythmic focus that is required to have the music be attractive. There's no touch on Hammond like piano so you can't just lay back and play pretty stuff and have it sound good. You basically have to be killing it rhythmically and time feel wise for it to sound good. Gonna take me a while longer to get it, and I might not have the talent to do it. Also Tony kind of made me feel bad because he would treat me like a complete beginner when I had 20 years experience in jazz. He'd tell me bass basics like how how to outline chords lesson after lesson. I'd tell him, I know, I studied bass in college. So what did it and made me rage quit wasn't a single recording, it was my inability to record anything that I thought was objectively attractive over the period of applying myself really hard for 3 years. That's ok though, because I think I've got it with my jazz piano playing. Despite my piano burnouts, my piano playing had been developing nicely all along since about 2004. That ain't a bad thing to have your talent in. I'm not that talented in music, can't be good at everything. So I'm happy to have succeeded in becoming a good musician after a long odyssey in dunning kruger valley.

I have been wandering in this desert myself for 40 odd years, it's practically Semitic. Yet the path is well marked and smooth. I just keep fooling myself that it couldn't be that obvious, and going down side trails.

Lol!

I’m the poster child for imposter syndrome in every aspect of life, but you know you just keep chugging along, and eventually people say, you’re pretty good, keep doing what you’re doing.

Yep, that was nice of Mr B to tell me it was probably impostor syndrome rather than DK. Meaning I outwardly show signs of being competent. Also AA said my piano sounds very good so I'm happy.

I started on guitar, but I fell in love with the organ when I got into prog rock in the 70’s. Keith Emerson…Rick Wakeman…Jon Lord…I should’ve taken lessons, but there’s only some much time in the day.

A buddy of mine played pipe organ for several churches, and I helped him install an organ (a Hammond?) that he acquired from a church that switched from pipes to digital. He installed the thing and the pipes in his living room. Wow. He sounded like E. Power Biggs when he got that thing going. Not a jazzer, unfortunately. Bach was about as far out as he got.

There definitely aren’t enough organists. Keep at it!

Yeah organ is awesome. I'm going to keep at it. Since I'm strictly a keys player now I may as well work on all styles of keys even though piano is my strength - Hammond, Rhodes, and there's rock lead keys too.

[AllanAllen]

You probably just need to get a group together. Nothing improves like gig prep and actually playing 3hrs at a time with no do-overs.

[Jimmy Smith]

Probably. It shouldn't be impossible slogging after it with drum genius and recordings tho. If anything, that's shooting higher because you're trying to verifiably sound good on your own without the aid of a group.

[pamosmusic]

Probably. It shouldn't be impossible slogging after it with drum genius and recordings tho. If anything, that's shooting higher because you're trying to verifiably sound good on your own without the aid of a group.

I would like to propose an unorthodox definition of jazz:

“The aid of a group.”

[Jimmy Smith]

Haha, what do you mean? I'm bad with allusions, implications, and metaphors.

[pamosmusic]

Haha, what do you mean? I'm bad with allusions, implications, and metaphors.

Just that you could slog through with drum genius and recordings but that would be to sort of miss the point.

or at the very least, miss all the cool parts.

[Jimmy Smith]

Yep haha. I played in groups for years. I should get back at it tho.