George Benson teacher attacking other teacher calling him idiot, a-hole and loser

[Jabberwocky]

Instead of pursuing a sales strategy of many small sales, pursue a few very big sales.

Ah Hah! Lightbulb moment! It is like being given the keys to an exclusive secret society. Pay to join else press your dirty nose against the windowpane. Secrets, who doesn't like exclusive secrets?

By the way, Mr. Triangle, who is the MF of whom you mention? He is not Michael Farrell........Ohh!

[frabarmus]

Hmmm , one of the abiding questions of our time , who would win a pub fight between Peter Farrell and Chase Maddox ?

Peter and Chase, now calm down, be good, confess and, as a penance, go to the pub, park your cars, enter the pub, have a beer and a packet of crisps together, then play a gig together at the pub. All is well... good boys! There you go!!

[Christian Miller]

MMA match


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[DestinyT]

Peter and Chase, now calm down, be good, confess and, as a penance, go to the pub, park your cars, enter the pub, have a beer and a packet of crisps together, then play a gig together at the pub. All is well... good boys! There you go!!

[Jabberwocky]

MMA match

Too bloody. Duelling guitars. Steve Vai versus Ralph Macchio.

I'll stick to "1-chord" Pat Martino. I paid $8 for Linear Expressions used. Think I'll put on some Chet Baker now.

[Tal_175]

This whole thing started because Chase said Peter's licks were too long.

[Mick-7]

Attachment 109977

Does he routinely use those fingerings? Lost the use of his left pinky in an accident or.... what?

Seems like a terribly inefficient way to move around the fretboard - if you want to play anything other than pentatonics anyway.

[Navdeep_Singh]

FFS, someone hiding “using iii minor or vi minor as a sub for IMaj” BEHIND A PAYWALL??


I am reminded of the primal need for beginning students to seek out serious, qualified teachers when they start so they don’t GIVE UP SO EASILY (as 90% of them do, within a year), so they can develop some fundamentals, have a sold base and foundation to begin a lifetime love of music.

(In saying that, I do not hold myself out as a teacher. I think most people need serious teachers to start and lay the foundation. Do you know someone who doesn’t need a teacher George Benson. George Benson is a lifelong friend of my former teacher and asked to study with him. My teacher turned him down. When I asked him why, he simply said, “GTFO. George Benson does not need a teacher”. )

I remember Farrell apparently getting license to use the GB name, and then charging a huge sum of money for his books (basically the price of college textbooks).

[Jonah]

Does he routinely use those fingerings? Lost the use of his left pinky in an accident or.... what?

Seems like a terribly inefficient way to move around the fretboard - if you want to play anything other than pentatonics anyway.

lots of self-taught jazz players do not use pinky almost at all plaing lines... Wes, Grant Green... some use but not much like Benson or Pat Metheny or Peter Bernstein...

I thik it affecs phrasing a lot, different wrist angle, flat fingers (not quite tips to fret)
More horizontal/diagonal fretboard movement

It is actually very efficient way if one can handle it

[MarkRhodes]

Only if his books are clearer than his videos

True! I think---but don't know, as I haven't seen them---that his books have lots of lines and fingerings in them. Not too many...sentences.

[MarkRhodes]

lots of self-taught jazz players do not use pinky almost at all plaing lines... Wes, Grant Green... some use but not much like Benson or Pat Metheny or Peter Bernstein...

I thik it affecs phrasing a lot, different wrist angle, flat fingers (not quite tips to fret)
More horizontal/diagonal fretboard movement

It is actually very efficient way if one can handle it

Christian Miller has made a nice video about this approach.

There is a thread hereabouts on the subject. Worth checking out, even if you come from somewhere else in your playing (or are going somewhere else with it.)

[MarkRhodes]

Too bloody. Duelling guitars. Steve Vai versus Ralph Macchio.

I'll stick to "1-chord" Pat Martino. I paid $8 for Linear Expressions used. Think I'll put on some Chet Baker now.

Martino's "Linear Expressions" is a great introduction to his "convert to minor" (or "minorization") approach. I've watched a few videos of Pat talking about his playing and found them confusing. But that book belongs on the short shelf of jazz guitar instruction by great players.

I think the main division among players (and not division in terms of rivalry but in terms of a fundamentally different approach) is those, like Martino and Benson, and Wes (among others) is that they start with lines. They learn lines, they mess around with 'em, put 'em in different places. "The line is the thing," for them. They want to do it and don't feel they have to understand it in order to do it. (They may come to understand it later; or they may not.)

The other approach starts from theory or the question, "how is one to proceed?" They want to understand and then do.

One can go about it either way. Both sorts of players love music and want to excel.
I really don't care how the people I love to hear play came to play that way. (It might prove interesting, but I don't need to know it.)
But that's me.

I DO think that across genre---bluegrass, country, blues, rock, swing, and jazz---that I tend more toward the "lines first" players. (Hendrix, SRV, Charlie Christian, Herb Ellis, BB King, Duane Allman, Keith Richards, Jerry Garcia, Steve Cropper, Cornell Dupree, Danny Gatton, Hank Garland, Wes, Kessel.)

But that's me, and one can take another approach to listening to those same players.

[Mick-7]

Christian Miller has made a nice video about this approach.

There is a thread hereabouts on the subject. Worth checking out, even if you come from somewhere else in your playing (or are going somewhere else with it.

Thank you, I can see the logic behind that but I've been more influenced by horn and piano players and I'm partial to the more angular and/or complex lines they play, which would be more difficult or clumsy to execute with 3 fingers, e.g., Allan Holdsworth's lines. I wouldn't shift positions with my fourth finger though, that would be inefficient.

I think I'll try playing Dolphy's Miss Ann with only 3 fingers and see how it goes.... I'm guessing I will miss her even more.

"There is a thread hereabouts on the subject."

Any idea what it's called?

[pamosmusic]

Thank you, I can see the logic behind that but I've been more influenced by horn and piano players and I'm partial to the more angular and/or complex lines they play, which would be more difficult or clumsy to execute with 3 fingers, e.g., Allan Holdsworth's lines. I wouldn't shift positions with my fourth finger though, that would be inefficient.

I think I'll try playing Dolphy's Miss Ann with only 3 fingers and see how it goes.... I'm guessing I will miss her even more.

"There is a thread hereabouts on the subject."

Any idea what it's called?

Three fingered technique - actually RIGHT?

[princeplanet]

Peter Farrell is a phenomenal GB copyist, he may even be the world's best. I bet he's good enough to fool most of us in a blind listening test as to whether or not we're listening to the real GB or just PF. So there's something to be said for that, in the same way that there are expert copyists (forgerers?) of great painters.

And with GB's blessing (after negotiatiing his commission, no doubt), there is nothing unlawful about what PF is trying to do, i.e. teaching others how to be a GB copyist (hey, if that's your thing). But it's a mug's game, where claims of: "I have the best method, forget the other impostors !" can seem quite hilarious from a distance. Being a fan of GB, I very briefly tuned in to PF many years ago to see what the high price tag might warrant. I didn't buy anything, just took a peek and decided the guy's personality wasn't suited to teaching, at all! Well, not for my needs anyway...

Every once in a while something to do with PF would show up on this forum, and each time it seemed his ego was digging an ever deepening hole for himself, to the point of it becoming well and truly unredeemable. Peter, you're not the 2nd best Jazz guitarist in the world, you're the best GB copyist. I'd suggest you get over yourself and learn some much needed humility, but it's too late. You've dug your hole with your appalling douche-baggery over the years to the point where you have narrowed your client base to be those that don't mind your personality, or even like it!

Each to there own, but here's a thought, imagine if you put the effort into being a unique Jazz guitar stylist instead of a copyist? Would you be a happier person right now? (not talking about money, more about self respect, and equally as important, respect from others)...

[Christian Miller]

Thank you, I can see the logic behind that but I've been more influenced by horn and piano players and I'm partial to the more angular and/or complex lines they play, which would be more difficult or clumsy to execute with 3 fingers, e.g., Allan Holdsworth's lines. I wouldn't shift positions with my fourth finger though, that would be inefficient.

Allan does that SO much, drives I mad it does.

[DestinyT]

Peter Farrell is a phenomenal GB copyist, he may even be the world's best. I bet he's good enough to fool most of us in a blind listening test as to whether or not we're listening to the real GB or just PF. So there's something to be said for that, in the same way that there are expert copyists (forgerers?) of great painters.

And with GB's blessing (after negotiatiing his commission, no doubt), there is nothing unlawful about what PF is trying to do, i.e. teaching others how to be a GB copyist (hey, if that's your thing). But it's a mug's game, where claims of: "I have the best method, forget the other impostors !" can seem quite hilarious from a distance.

Spot-on commentary - especially the observation that being a copyist is 'a mug's game'.

No matter how nuanced or coherent the content and presentation, I wish the proliferation of thinly-veiled engagement marketing would simply stop.

I wonder whether it taps into an urge to 'shred'? Probably a very rich vein, but (Hic sunt dracones...) I think a three-finger approach is a great antidote, and so is thumb (no pick) - because they foster what Mark called "line first" in an earlier post.

I think data ('declarative knowledge') is almost too easily available. On the other hand, I believe that know-how ('procedural knowledge', not the same as 'chops' or 'skills') is best acquired through a reflexive approach to the personal and authentic experience - however humble the circumstances - of playing 'jazz' with other people.

[tomv713]

Seems like a lot of intensity, I just want to play jazz and have fun. We’re not doing surgery over here

[MarkRhodes]

Thank you, I can see the logic behind that but I've been more influenced by horn and piano players and I'm partial to the more angular and/or complex lines they play, which would be more difficult or clumsy to execute with 3 fingers, e.g., Allan Holdsworth's lines. I wouldn't shift positions with my fourth finger though, that would be inefficient.

I think I'll try playing Dolphy's Miss Ann with only 3 fingers and see how it goes.... I'm guessing I will miss her even more.

"There is a thread hereabouts on the subject."

Any idea what it's called?

In a way, you're answering your own question here: you want to sound more like Holdsworth, and you can't play those lines (at least up to tempo) any old way. You need a certain technique to get those sounds. You need a certain technique to sweep like Gambale. Those who want a more old-school, idiomatic sound (Charlie Christian, Herb Ellis, Kessel, Wes) play a different way. It's all good. (Well, it all CAN be good; none of it's ALWAYS good. ;o)

[AllanAllen]

SI wish the proliferation of thinly-veiled engagement marketing would simply stop.

This one's easy to solve. If you want this stuff to stop, then stop watching it. Just like those AI videos people are worried about, and moves written by AI. If we don't spend our time and money on them and they'll go away. It's basic economics. As a matter of fact, go to youtube and click the three dots and then click "Don't show me things from this channel." If the algorithm sees enough people do that it'll take notice and stop pushing youtube feuds. It starts with you.

[Jonah]

Thank you, I can see the logic behind that but I've been more influenced by horn and piano players and I'm partial to the more angular and/or complex lines they play, which would be more difficult or clumsy to execute with 3 fingers, e.g., Allan Holdsworth's lines. I wouldn't shift positions with my fourth finger though, that would be inefficient.

I think I'll try playing Dolphy's Miss Ann with only 3 fingers and see how it goes.... I'm guessing I will miss her even more.

"There is a thread hereabouts on the subject."

Any idea what it's called?

I started as classical guitarist and I think until about 25-30 years old I considered it to be the most efficient technique.
Later - when the Internet and youtube became more an more spread - I noticed that 3 fingers playing among rock/bluse/jazz players and also thumb-over (I really had had no idea before that somebody really played like this, or when I saw it occasionally I just thought it was wrong and improper).

I practiced it for a while and the reason was - when I started I felt like there is some kind of smootheness in phrasing actually
It may seem strange... but probably since your wrist has to move along the neck a lot, this motion should not be abrupt but smooth and even and I think this also translates into the feel too...
Also 3 fingers players often (not always) sound like they play 'bigger/fatter notes' to me... I do not know how to explain it. Probably less speed, heavier fretting, more slides and hammer ons/pull offs makes certain notes like they heave more weight than others. And it is more like 'van gogh' style brushes.

And in 4 fingers (in postition) sometimes they are like more evenly articulated and sounds like smaller details are more defined articulation

Not always of course (after all it is about the musician but I can see the tendency anyway)

And thumb over the neck (if it does not create physical pain to use it) sometimes just gives an extra opportunity for basses - especially improvizing solo guitar stuff where you can play a chord or interval and then suddenly come up with some bass note using your thumb (which you could not do in this particular case in classical position)

With years it seems I just do whatever works - I do not really think about it.
And I think it actually adds versatality and flexibility

But also I think it can be physically different for different people. Normally I adopt myself quickly to new techniques of new instruments (scale length, neck etc.),
for some people it can be a challenge and then probably I would say that each one should feel and decide.

[DestinyT]

As a matter of fact, go to youtube and click the three dots and then click "Don't show me things from this channel." If the algorithm sees enough people do that it'll take notice and stop pushing youtube feuds. It starts with you.

(I assume 'feuds' to be a typo.)
I agree that clicking on the three dots is perhaps the best course of action available in response to an act that doesn't actually "start with you" (because it's performed by another).

[AllanAllen]

(I assume 'feuds' to be a typo.)
I agree that clicking on the three dots is perhaps the best course of action available in response to an act that doesn't actually "start with you" (because it's performed by another).

Are the youtube personalities not in a quarrel or conflict?

[drbhrb]

George Benson HATES this one weird trick! You'll never believe number iii-7!

[pauln]

...I wouldn't shift positions with my fourth finger

Please describe what you mean by shifting positions with the four finger.