Too late to be a great jazz guitarist starting at 26 years old?

[Mick-7]

Guys, he said his goal is to be able to get some gigs at bars. This is hardly an unachievable feat at 26

Quite true, but finding one that will pay him to play jazz may be.

[mr. beaumont]

I'm starting to think there's a guy out there about to create his third jazzguitar.be account and title his first post "How do I use a RealBook?"

[Tal_175]

I don't know if I'd advise a 26 year old, practically beginner guitarist who just found a renewed interest in guitar to move to New York to start a journey towards becoming a great jazz guitarist. I mean what could go wrong? We might be getting ahead of ourselves a bit here.

[Tal_175]

Instead of going to a music school, use the money to open a bar. Have a couple of jazz nights a week and invite some a-list jazzers in the city (believe they'll come as long as long as you pay for their gas and beer). Make it a condition that they have to include you in the band. You'll be a gigging jazz musician who is learning from some of the best musicians in the city.

Admittedly this is a long shot. But as long as you can keep the bar afloat it'd work and it might be more doable than the alternatives, lol.

[Christian Miller]

The young brain can definitely soak things up quicker...but there's also the case for the more experienced brain being able to think more abstractly...and some jazz concepts are pretty abstract. Some. Most of the important stuff is far less.

It's probably time for me to tell my story, as I started taking jazz seriously at just a slightly younger age than our OP. If you want the cliff notes, it has an unhappy ending, I'm not great. But that ending was at lest partially avoidable.

We make choices in life. I did not major in music in college, even though it was already something I loved. In college I was in multiple bands, played every weekend, often Friday and Saturday, sometimes more than one gig a day. Subbed in a wedding band that played "light jazz" during cocktail hour occasionally. All I did was hold my guitar and play the occasional chord. I knew I loved jazz but I didn't know a thing about playing it.

So yeah, I did a lot of music. But I wanted to teach visual art...I felt teaching art was something I'd be better at. And I do think I made the right choice.

And so I settled in to a career that gave me time off. I had a girlfriend (now wife) a dog and a house. I wanted to play jazz, but I didn't know anybody else who played jazz, and I lived far enough out of the area of the city where any jazz was happening that making the effort to get there was beyond what I wanted to most of the time. Chicago is big, and though I'm only 10 miles from downtown, that can be a 2 hour trek on public transportation (driving and paying for parking is NOT a choice if you want to keep your household budget)

It was a choice. At the time I could have been going out 5 nights a week and playing jams, I instead worked on my solo guitar chops. I arranged a ton of tunes. I played solo gigs at restaurants and wine bars and wedding cocktail hours. It taught me a lot, but it didn't teach me how to play jazz with others.

That came later...truly, long after I should have gotten myself out there. I was able to fall in with a group, mostly playing Django's music, which wasn't my first love, but hey, it was jazz, and I was playing it. This time also led to more gigs in different styles too, actually. Played a lot of classic country during this period...

And then I had kids. There were no late night jams anymore, just late night feedings and diaper changes. That was a spell of a few years.

My kids are a little older now, I do a lot of coaching, I still have my summers off, I practice every day, more when I'm not working. I'm still not great, but I also am still getting better. I sometimes consider "getting back out there." But life usually gets in the way.

So moral of the story?

You don't have to turn out like me. But there are some decisions you need to make...things that can either keep your goal within your control or put it out of your control. I chose the latter.

You can play that guitar though… I think the OP would aspire to play like you


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[Kirk Garrett]

I don't know if I'd advise a 26 year old, practically beginner guitarist who just found a renewed interest in guitar to move to New York to start a journey towards becoming a great jazz guitarist. I mean what could go wrong? We might be getting ahead of ourselves a bit here.

Right, this assumes the OP really wants to be a “great” jazz guitarist. The assumption is actually far-fetched given his recent rekindling of interest.

But given the assumption: If not at age 26….when? It could “go wrong”, but something good could come out of it.

New York City may well be past its “sell by” date at this point. I lived there for a quarter century and I don’t miss it. But it’s probably not the only jazz destination.

[Tal_175]

Right, this assumes the OP really wants to be a “great” jazz guitarist.

It doesn't assume. It's good in general to read the thread title before responding.

[Kirk Garrett]

It doesn't assume. It's good in general to read the thread title before responding.

What and advise him to open a bar?

[Tal_175]

What and advise him to open a bar?

Did you think it was serious?

[Kirk Garrett]

Did you think it was serious?

No, I knew it was unhelpful in every way.

[DawgBone]

Absolutely true! What are you willing to sacrifice in order to reach your goal?

It can all be boiled down to this ^. When you hit the stage, that is all that will count. Sacrifice, endurance, commitment, fortitude. Give a lot of yourself and eventually it will come back to you. Give up a lot and you will reap a lot. I myself should've been on the ball earlier in the game. I didn't have the luxury of online materials and people in the business to advise me, it was figure it out as you go, by yourself. I went from BF Egypt to gigging the Austin area, which is pretty good for a guy like me. I even got a little name recognition though I'm still having a hard time believing that's true and now I need to learn to be gracious about it, which is a skill I lack. (Big surprise, I know guys haha).

Good luck OP. If you really want it, it's there for the taking!!!

[Tal_175]

No, I knew it was unhelpful in every way.

Well, I did remind you of reading the thread title before responding. It may be help you avoid an embarrassing post in the future. So there is that.

[pauln]

Hey guys i want to ask you this(may sound silly) is it too late for me to become a great jazz player starting this late? I want to get good and play gigs at bars while im young. I played guitar from 16-18 and now my interested spiked again big time. Thanks in advance to everyone!

Thanks for the reply. Well the goal is just to be a beast of a jazz guitarist in my young years. On the side of playing live/finances i would like to play in bars,that would be enough for me.

Maybe some are reading too much into your words?
I see three things:

1] What
become a great jazz player
want to get good
be a beast of a jazz guitarist
I take this as simply meaning wanting to learn to play Jazz guitar.

2] Why
play gigs at bars
play in bars
I take this to mean performing in venues in general; restaurants, clubs, etc.

3] When (this is really the primary question)
starting this late (at 26)
while I'm young
in my young years
I take this as inquiring how long to expect reaching what and why above if starting at age 26.

Asked when the programmers would finish fixing the project's software bugs that had not yet been discovered, Dilbert replied, "It is illogical to schedule the unknown" (and then was told to think like a manager instead of an engineer). Yes, your user name reminded me of Dilbert.

You've drawn some of both kinds of thinking, and more. I'm inclined to wish good luck, suggest you pursue what you want to do, knowing nothing is certain.

[Kirk Garrett]

I don't know if I'd advise a 26 year old, practically beginner guitarist who just found a renewed interest in guitar to move to New York to start a journey towards becoming a great jazz guitarist. I mean what could go wrong? We might be getting ahead of ourselves a bit here.

If he really wants to be a great jazz guitarist, he should go for it.

You may be implying that he doesn’t really want that. Because of his “renewed interest.” The desire is shallow and fleeting.

However, if we assume that the desire is genuine and lasting, why not go to New York or equivalent at age 26?

[pamosmusic]

If he really wants to be a great jazz guitarist, he should go for it.

You may be implying that he doesn’t really want that. Because of his “renewed interest.” The desire is shallow and fleeting.

However, if we assume that the desire is genuine and lasting, why not go to New York or equivalent at age 26?

Rent, mostly.

[pamosmusic]

Okay okay so I love New York, but it’s a really tough place to live and really difficult to make ends meet. I was fortunate to have a spouse and outer borough sensibilities when I moved there, which helped an awful lot.

We shared a basement studio in Bay Ridge that grew mushrooms from the carpet for the first three years. Not sure I could’ve afforded even that if I had it to myself.

I think it’s an incredible city, even still. Especially the deep outer boroughs (if I could live in Bay Ridge and never have to go anywhere but the B1 and B16 lines, I’d do it). But it’s a really really difficult place to just get around, let alone if you’ve sold all your stuff and moved. Just the simple fact of the difficulty of owning a car and the difficulty of getting in from the suburbs makes it a different animal from LA and Chicago, even in kind.

Recommending someone uproot and move there is …. a tricky proposition for me.

[pamosmusic]

why not go to New York or equivalent at age 26?

But in the “pro” column for the Apple … let’s be real here. There is no equivalent.

[Tal_175]

If he really wants to be a great jazz guitarist, he should go for it.

You may be implying that he doesn’t really want that. Because of his “renewed interest.” The desire is shallow and fleeting.

However, if we assume that the desire is genuine and lasting, why not go to New York or equivalent at age 26?

There is no need to assume, one can find out if the desire is genuine and lasting by practicing, taking lessons, studying for a few years before making major decisions.

I can understand a very advanced and ambiguous jazz guitarist wanting to go to New York (or equivalent) to challenge themselves to get to the next level, meet other good players, find an elite player to study with etc. What does New York have to offer to a beginner jazz guitarist that you can't find in most other cities?

[Kirk Garrett]

There is no need to assume, one can find out if the desire genuine and lasting by practicing, taking lessons, studying for a few years before making major decisions.

I can understand a very advanced and ambiguous jazz guitarist wanting to go to New York (or equivalent) to challenge themselves to get to the next level, meet other good players, find an elite player to study with etc. What does New York have to offer to a beginner jazz guitarist that you can't find in most other cities?

Look at the post directly above yours. There’s no equivalent to New York.

I think that may have been true at one time. Nonetheless, I don’t think that Dallas or Phoenix are full of the best jazz players.

I do think there may be other cities in Europe and beyond that could help forge jazz greatness.

[Kirk Garrett]

Okay okay so I love New York, but it’s a really tough place to live and really difficult to make ends meet. I was fortunate to have a spouse and outer borough sensibilities when I moved there, which helped an awful lot.

We shared a basement studio in Bay Ridge that grew mushrooms from the carpet for the first three years. Not sure I could’ve afforded even that if I had it to myself.

I think it’s an incredible city, even still. Especially the deep outer boroughs (if I could live in Bay Ridge and never have to go anywhere but the B1 and B16 lines, I’d do it). But it’s a really really difficult place to just get around, let alone if you’ve sold all your stuff and moved. Just the simple fact of the difficulty of owning a car and the difficulty of getting in from the suburbs makes it a different animal from LA and Chicago, even in kind.

Recommending someone uproot and move there is …. a tricky proposition for me.

I don’t think greatness is to be achieved without difficulty, generally speaking.

I’ve seen two pretty good gypsy jazz bands in the last month. Maybe four or five people were actually paying attention to them in each case. The violinist in one was very good; everybody else in my view was okay, decent, solid.

I guess it depends on what great means.

[pamosmusic]

Look at the post directly above yours. There’s no equivalent to New York.

I think that may have been true at one time. Nonetheless, I don’t think that Dallas or Phoenix are full of the best jazz players.

I do think there may be other cities in Europe and beyond that could help forge jazz greatness.

Okay but the posts directly above that were me being very very very ambivalent about the idea of recommending someone move to New York for the purposes outlined in this thread.

And I guess to address Tal above …

… yeah you have to think about what you want to get out of it. The folks recommending a beginner go out to jam sessions in New York would probably do well to go to a few first, for example. I went (almost) exclusively to friendly ones that I loved and that were super welcoming and warm, but they’re nerve wracking for a newbie even with chops and the standard will be very high.

If you want to get something out of it, you have to be ready to get something out of it.

and lots of cities have wonderful wonderful teachers. What New York has that nowhere else does is the community and the sessions and the reading sessions and the clubs. You move when you’re prepared to be in those settings.

[Jimmy Smith]

Anyone can become great starting at 26 as long as they have some ability, dedicate themselves to a practice routine, and study with a good teacher. It will probably take 10 years or more at the least for average abilities. Only the super gifted could accelerate from beginner to great in 5 years or so. If you're not worrying about being a full time pro musician and are just concerned with getting good, there's nothing wrong with that goal. If you get a good teacher and put yourself on a solid practice regimen, you can be playing well at gigs in your 30s. Dunno about beast tho.

[pamosmusic]

I don’t think greatness is to be achieved without difficulty, generally speaking.

Okay sure. But we have a somewhat irresponsible idea that “difficulty” should be dramatic and romantic.

Pack up everything and leave. Suffer for your craft.

It is actually very very difficult to just know yourself and be aware of your limitations for the moment. It’s very difficult to then push up against those limitations and start moving them further and further away. I tend to think it’s quite difficult and admirable to carve out two hours after your kids are asleep and it’s very difficult to be disciplined in what you practice for those two hours. It’s difficult to do that for two or three years.

I think it’s very difficult to factor all of that boring and important stuff in before making big dramatic decisions that seem impressive to those around you. But we tend to snooze at all that really important stuff and give people big high fives for the grand gestures.

Im sure there are other current or former New Yorkers who can confirm: even if you move to New York, you will still have to do all that boring stuff.

Anyway … if the OP does end up moving to New York he should hit me up w a message and I’ll hip him to the best bagel. But there is much that can be done wherever he’s living right now, even if he has to do it with subpar bagels.

[mr. beaumont]

You can play that guitar though… I think the OP would aspire to play like you


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Thank you, I do appreciate that.

I also just want to make sure people understand that I know what I'm good at, and I post a lot of videos here, and that's what I post, for the most part.

There's a whole lot more I'm not good at. I don't post that.

[ccroft]

I'm solidly in the go for it camp. Why not? Just because it didn't work out perfectly for me doesn't mean it won't work out for everybody. You can always leave NY or get a new job.

(I quit school at 16 to play jazz. I did play a lot of jazz. Moved to NY. Lived there 10 years. Played some other stuff. Got my first real job at 40. I'm a cabinetmaker in Canada now. I'm almost ready to retire. I'm happy about all of it.)