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A hand surgeon recommended that I try rubbing CBD on a painful joint (left index by the fingernail) rather than go right to an injection.
He told me that two recent papers came out in the Journal of Hand Surgery (or similar title) indicating that it works, presumably, for some people.
He said that CVS sells the same product that was studied. CVS had one product which was Hemp based according to the label. He said that I should try the CVS product first and then, if it didn't work, go to a CBD dispensary and get something stronger.
I read that not all CBD oil (or cream) is hemp based and that the other kind (sativa based?) is better for this purpose.
But, it appears to be an unregulated market. I could not figure out which product to buy out of a bewildering array.
Does anybody help me through this maze?
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03-17-2024 06:25 PM
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I’ve been using this:
https://inthroughtheskin.com/products/cbd-clinic-level-5-stick
Instead of injections, for about two years, it’s working for now.
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There is very weak evidence for efficacy of topical CBD. BTW, you did not indicate what the underlying condition to be treated is. " A 2022 Agency for Health Research and Quality systematic review of various THC-CBD doses and concentrations of synthetic and plant-extracted cannabis products found small, short-term improvements in neuropathic chronic pain and function. Higher doses were associated with increased risk of dizziness, sedation, and nausea. Conclusions from this review are limited by nonstandardized characterization of various cannabis products, and lack of adequate studies on specific preparations and patient populations."
"Topical NSAIDs, in the form of a gel, spray, or cream, can provide relief for acute musculoskeletal pain and may be beneficial in patients with single joint osteoarthritis."
" Capsaicin has been used in patients with postherpetic neuralgia, HIV neuropathy, diabetic neuropathy, and in patients with osteoarthritis in one or a few joints." It is available over-the-counter as low concentration (up to 0.1%) cream, lotion, or gel .... Low concentration capsaicin preparations must be applied three to four times per day over the entire painful area for up to six to eight weeks before optimal pain relief can be achieved, ..... The major adverse effects of capsaicin are burning, stinging, and erythema at the site of application, leading to intolerance in up to one-third of patients."
Bottom-line: be careful taking suggestions for treatment from strangers.
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Dude, just go to CVS and buy the one they have. Don’t complicate things.
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Osteoarthritis.
The hand surgeon referred to two articles in the past year, so they wouldn't be in an earlier review.
I haven't found the articles yet, so I don't know the exact product. I think it may be one which is not made from hemp. I'm still trying to figure that out.
I obtained no benefit from Voltaren.
Medical advice from strangers doesn't seem like a great idea, but it may be that someone will know the literature and or have other verifiable knowledge and might chip in. Medical advice from MDs is usually good (and the way to go, generally speaking), but there are exceptions.
EDIT: I think I found one article. It found benefit from 6.2mg/ml CBD in Shea Butter. Raw CBD obtained from EcoX since renamed Ecogen. Ecogen sells in bulk, not in small jars or tubes. Haven't figured out who is selling that exact stuff.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 03-17-2024 at 08:35 PM.
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Topical DMSO lotion (organic sulphur) works for many people, but get the highest purity (99.9%) - search term DMSO on amazon, etc. I wouldn't expect much from hemp oil. Good luck.
P.S. - There are a number of studies on pubmed re: using DMSO for joint pain:
Medical use of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO)
[Dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO) gel in treatment of acute tendopathies. A multicenter, placebo-controlled, randomized study] - PubMed
Methylsulfonylmethane Improves Knee Quality of Life in Participants with Mild Knee Pain: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled TrialLast edited by Mick-7; 03-18-2024 at 01:20 AM.
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This might help.
Does CBD help with arthritis pain? - Harvard Health
Basically, either save your money or be aware the return on investment is likely to be low. There is an industry of profit-seekers pushing the use of cannabinoids for everything that ails us, pretending there are no downsides, but there is little to no reliable evidence that the claims are true.
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Thanks. Very interesting. I might note that the doctor who recommended CBD is a Hand Surgeon at Stanford. Not a random guy on the Internet. But, I get that there's very little proof.
Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I been using castor oil topically when my forearm gets tight or sore. It works. Please disregard my experiences like everyone else does when I suggest this dangerous and controversial method of relieving pain.
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Might be something to the CBD oil but the problem is that the products are unregulated and so there's no way to know how much cannabidiol they will contain.
Cannabidiol as a treatment for arthritis and joint pain: an exploratory cross-sectional study - PubMed
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Just go to the pharmacist at CVS and say "My doctor suggested I try a CBD hand cream, can you help me?"
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I've used CBD and it's family for years for pain relief for the 32 broken bones I've had over the last 7 decades.
However for specific arthritic pain my Orthopedic doc gave me Diclofenac Sodium topical gel 1% , you can get it OTC as well .. it works the best of anything I've tried and that's about everything...
I'm not allowed to take any OTC painkillers after acute kidney failure 5 years ago ( I survived , it was a blockage)
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I think it is strange your doctor just didn't tell you the exact name of the product.Looking at CVS online,it appears they only carry 2 CBD topical creams so that pretty much narrows it down.I use Biogel once in awhile on my finger when it is too stiff and it does a good job. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I did that. The pharmacist on duty knew nothing about CBD, which is odd, but that's what happened. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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[QUOTE=nyc chaz;1324103]I think it is strange your doctor just didn't tell you the exact name of the product.Looking at CVS online,it appears they only carry 2 CBD topical creams so that pretty much narrows it down.I use Biogel once in awhile on my finger when it is too stiff and it does a good job.[/QUOTE
Agree. I emailed the doc yesterday to ask for more info.
CVS only had one product in the store, but it wasn't clear if it was exactly what the doc had in mind.
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I've tried that, as Voltaren, a couple of times, with no benefit. Originally Posted by Greywolf
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Voltaren didn't work for me either. The only thing that does is Advil, but I can't be taking Advil everyday. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Since you have osteoarthritis, I have been reading lately that some products actually can help rebuild cartilage over the long run, you've probably heard of glucosamine and chondroitin, but also hyaluronic acid.
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Rick, I have tried both CBD and Voltaren for joint pain. Neither worked for me. The only thing that has worked to reduce the pain (all in my left hand) in playing less. A drag to be sure, but we need to listen to our aging bodies.
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Ever consider a hand therapist who might have a specialty in working with musicians? Despite all the remedies suggested above, nothing has been proven to rebuild cartilage or reverse osteoarthritis. And the reason your hand surgeon didn't suggest a specific CBD prep is that I will bet that he doesn't have a clue. That's no indictment on his expertise. Topical therapies are way less risky than joint injections and the latter are certainly less effective in the long term than most would believe.
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I have the impression, well short of proof, that Vitamin D3 has helped, but not this time, for this joint.
D3 has to be monitored with blood work to be fully safe and also, to figure out if you need more in the first place.
One issue with hand therapy is that a doc who recommended couldn't explain why or how it works.
When I had it, it was some exercises and a warm wax treatment. No benefit.
Another Hand Surgeon recommended changing the gut biome by following the "simple instructions" in a book called Super Gut. My PCP thought that there is value in this approach, but following the principles outlined in the book was anything but simple. The Stanford hand surgeon didn't buy it.
One issue is that, often, xrays will show every joint is a mess -- even though only one (or some small number) may be symptomatic. They can't tell from the xray which one is hurting. So, in a way, the goal isn't to fix the whole problem (which they can't anyway) but to turn a symptomatic joint into an asymptomatic joint.
At one point, glucosamine and chondroitin were recommended by Kaiser rheumatology but not by orthopedics, for the same condition. Or maybe it was the other way around. Neither worked for me. Nor did a blackberry extract or fish oil.
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Sounds like you're becoming an involuntary authority on the subject, rpjazzguitar.
I have been taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM (organic sulfur) for mild knee osteoarthritis, and the pain I'd been experiencing went away after a few weeks. Would it have gone away anyway? Who knows, perhaps I'll find out when I stop taking it. I've seen more studies that support the use of MSM than G/C, and a study that suggested taking all three together works best.
X-rays are a poor diagnostic tool for soft tissue ailments, you'll need an MRI to really tell what's going on.
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