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FWIW, and I'm sure not much, we tend to use olive oil for most purposes, and when we need an oil with a high smoke point, we use either avocado or grape seed (not rapeseed). Both are fairly neutral oils, for use in searing meat or similar. In general, frying doesn't need high temperatures. 350-375F or so is plenty for most frying, and most oils are fine at those temps. Neither grapes nor avocados are endangered, and there are thousands of tons of their seeds which are waste products of wine and guacamole making. Humans will never stop growing grapes for wine, and it seems logical to use the seeds for something as well. There are more choices for oil than I can even imagine, so use whatever floats your gravy boat.
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12-24-2023 10:37 PM
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This one claims to have cured the problem:
12-Inch Hybrid Nonstick Frying Pan
– Anolon
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It becomes a pretty tough goo even without baking, and under normal use the seasoning layer will only grow, if anything. The receiving surface structure has a much bigger incidence in my experience: my 2 carbon-steel skillets shed their seasoning much more easily. Off the interior of course; the outside walls have a brushed surface and getting those bare again would take an acid bath I think.
Originally Posted by wintermoon
True, but the bottom that sits on the burner is probably (a lot) hotter than that, not to mention the heating elements of a deep fryer (mine has the coils immersed in the oil). Originally Posted by sgosnell
I think that currently the waste from wine producers is used as or to make fertiliser or pig food. The part that isn't used to make "marc de XXX" (or grappa, or whatever the spirit is called in your country of choice). Grape seed oil is among the most expensive here, and I think that's understandable when you do the calculation how many seeds you need and the amount of work required to separate them from the rest. And that's assuming they're still a viable source of oil after the wine fermentation stage!Humans will never stop growing grapes for wine, and it seems logical to use the seeds for something as well.
Pretty sure Google will tell you all about this...
There's even "nose oil" to apply to your LH fingers as an alternative to fast fret, apparentlyThere are more choices for oil than I can even imagine, so use whatever floats your gravy boat.
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I used to have cast-alu pans with an array of little dips that may have had the same intended purpose. No idea if they did TBH, and I have a hunch that that those holes would have to be much deeper or that Anolon mesh high enough to make the pan a griddle if they're to divide the cooking surface up in non-communicating vessels. Originally Posted by Danny W.
This does make me wonder even more about those CI fans who spend fortunes or lots of elbow grease on getting/making pans with mirror-smooth cooking surfaces.
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I sometimes resort to 'nose oil' to get my phone to recognize my fingerprint. After swimming, or even thorough washing of my hands, the fingerprint reader can't seem to recognize any of my fingers, but wiping my finger across my nose fixes it immediately. Any type of oil or even water will do the same, but my nose is always readily available.
A properly designed deep fryer shouldn't make the coils much hotter than the set oil temperature, and a cast iron skillet shouldn't get much hotter inside than the intended oil temperature. The only need for very high temps for those is to get the oil heated very quickly, which can be desirable in a few instances, but one has to accept the downsides.
I really don't know where the grape seeds used for oil come from, but here in the US it's not much more expensive than any other oil, certainly cheaper than high-end olive oil. I would be surprised to learn that it's made from grapes grown specifically for making oil, but I've been surprised before.
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As you know most electric heating elements are on/off designs, essentially PWM... I don't know if that's true also for induction coils but I can affirm that my cheap "i-hub" clearly switches on for shorter and shorter durations when I select the lowest 3 or 4 settings (calibrated in watts). I should remember to connect it via my power meter gadget. Originally Posted by sgosnell
Maybe the US (or the north Americas) make a lot of grape juice? That's a product that doesn't have any use for the skins or seeds that I know of so it'd make sense to use those for other purposes.I would be surprised to learn that it's made from grapes grown specifically for making oil, but I've been surprised before.
I can't recall ever hearing about olive oil from elsewhere but the Mediterranean region; if the majority of your olive oil is import that would explain the high prices. Cross-atlantic import would also explain the high price of grape seed oil here (idem for avocado oil which is probably even more expensive - but there's also crazy expensive olive oil of course).
Flax seed oil isn't cheap here either, except the variety sold in plastic bottles for making paints and treating wood. I've used it for seasoning, under the assumption that a EU product claiming to be 100% flax seed oil can't contain significant amounts of anything else, plus if it's indicated for treating veggie cutting boards and the like it should be fine once polymerised.
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The temperature of the hob, and of the outside of the pan, isn't all that important. It's just the inside that contacts the oil and food that matters. The on/off cycle is just to keep the temperature constant. Deep fryers, at least in the US, are generally used with generic vegetable oil or perhaps peanut or canola oil. I've haven't seen any burnt oil from their use, but I'm not a professional fry cook.
There are lots of olive orchards in California, and it's possible to get oil that is 100% from there. Most olive oil is imported, though. South America is a big olive oil producer. Most of it isn't that expensive, but the highest quality oil is. The problem is that imported oil, much of it from South America, is of poorer quality, and not fresh, since the journey takes time. That type oil is fine for cooking most of the time, but some isn't, and some (much? depending on who/what one believes) isn't actually olive oil. That seems to be common in Italy, if the internet can be believed. I'm always skeptical of what I see on the internet, and especially on YouTube. I do know that the price of olive oil here varies widely, from about the same price as generic oil to very expensive. Grape seed oil is about the same price as moderately priced olive oil. I have no clue about things in Europe.
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Of course, but it does mean that the heater is always on at maximum power (or off), and the bottom of the pan (even the inside) is probably going to be hotter than the target temperature of your oil. That won't make much difference if you use little oil but in a deep fryer it could, hence the advice to use an appropriate oil. Originally Posted by sgosnell
No, it isn't. There have been I think 2 operations dismantled this year, one actually trying to sell sunflower (or rapeseed) oil as olive oil, the other with a little bit more subtle scheme. Both must have aimed for the export market primarily because I don't think even the average Italian would fall for it.That seems to be common in Italy, if the internet can be believed.
Now ... does anyone (with a diesel car) filter and reuse their used frying oils?
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Two in a year would seem to indicate an underlying problem. But I have exactly zero personal knowledge of anything going on in Italy, or elsewhere in the EU or vicinity. And all that is required to produce a YouTube video is a smartphone and a free account.
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I think most people would deep-fry using generic vegetable oil, peanut oil, or maybe canola oil, at least here. Olive oil is more expensive, and it takes a lot of oil for a deep fryer, plus it affects the taste. Vegetable oil is cheap, bland, and does well enough.
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In New Zealand, I think it is fair to say, deep frying is considered old-fashioned and plebeian. People like us, the sort of people who use skillets and other cookware made in France, buy sunflower oil and olive oil made locally. We tell all our friends about our superior tastes. In our pantries, however, we keep two-litre bottles of canola for everyday purposes.
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Which doesn't have to be in the olive oil production business specifically. Not unlike the problem with transatlantic brie/camembert/feta Originally Posted by sgosnell
(in those cases the problem presumably isn't with the cheese at all).
Talking about trans-atlantic differences: somehow I got it in my head that "canola oil" is made from GM seeds, is that correct or just an over-interpretation of my apparently outdated assumption that rapeseed oil is for cold use only?
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I don't know about the GM part, but I understood it was recommended because of its neutral taste and high smoking point. Myself I use it because Thomas Keller from The French Laundry does so, and he's fancy.
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Just for the record: I'm not aware of any French customs to do the laundry with any kind of oil
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This particular French Laundry is in Northern California. They do things differently there.
Keller was consultant on Pixar's Ratatouille and was the designer (chef?) of the movie's final dish.
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Tu m'étonnes... windsurfers still do it standing up? Originally Posted by CliffR
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Wikipedia says canola oil is from a particular cultivar or cultivars of rapeseed. I've never paid much attention to it, and don't bother to buy it, although some generic vegetable oil may list it as an ingredient. We aren't all that fancy, nor particular. We buy vegetable oil, whatever vegetables it may contain, for everyday use when lots of oil is needed, avocado and/or grapeseed for high temp frying (there are mixtures available), and olive oil for use in salad dressing and such, sauteing, also for scrambled eggs. Scrambling eggs in what appears to be an ocean of olive oil results in a delectable dish. I don't like eggs scrambled alone, but the olive oil makes a huge difference. All the oil gets absorbed by the eggs, along with some of the taste.
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.......And speaking of non-stick vs CI and CS, one YT channel says that NS is 90% of the new pan market.....And he also believes after last year's research, that no NS pans are safe, and pretty soon NS pans will have to carry warnings....info in link below
These are two of the better YT channels......MHO.....
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That's a, shall we say continuing story. The current good NS pans are relatively safe if you use them according to the instructions (no overheating for instance) and discard them as soon as the NS layer starts to show signs of wear. The NS stuff then becomes a problem for the environment - again, because it isn't exactly without issues during production either. I'm curious to see how the impending EU ban on PFAS is going to affect this industry. Originally Posted by Dennis D
Foundries and steel mills probably aren't very "green" either, but a CI or carbon/stainless steel pan can last several lifetimes without having to be recycled (and recycled they can be...).
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Olive oil is particularly good when grilling peaches... Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Good olive oil is good for almost anything. I wouldn't use it on my fretboard, but it's good on almost anything edible.
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Enjoy olive oil while you can. Production in Europe is declining, with inevitable consequences: "Supermarkets in most European countries are currently selling olive oil at record prices, with prices of Spanish olive oil having risen by 115 per cent between September 2022 and September 2023."
The trees are endangered: "For the past decade, the oldest cultivated trees on Earth have been showing their vulnerability with many of the Mediterranean's olive groves drying up due to increasingly difficult weather conditions such as droughts and severe hailstorms leading to floods. And in 2023, the region – as well as the whole planet – experienced the hottest summer on record."
An Italian farmer says, "We need cold weather to kill off pests," he said. "And temperatures are rising."
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The latter bit is true everywhere. We've been having night temperatures of up to 10°C the past 2 weeks, which won't kill off much. On the high end of the scale we've been seeing majestic beeches (once planted for ship building) die off in my region. Originally Posted by Litterick
Of course olives are cultivated in the south of Europe, leaving a bit of margin to shift agricultural practices north - but with olives that will be a slower transition than with other crops...
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Rare event for us: we had a big can of preserved duck. That's pieces of duck that are kept in coarse ("kosher") salt at least overnight and then braised and canned in duck fat (if not eaten immediately after cooking). There were 4 legs so there was a lot of duck fat in the can. Traditionally you fry potatoes in part of that fat to eat with the duck and I think very few people throw away the surplus fat because it's surprisingly less unhealthy that one might think for something that is so criminally delicious. I now have 2 marmelade jars full with the stuff sitting in the fridge and already scrambled some eggs what was left in my skillet this afternoon Originally Posted by ragman1
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