On rising above the merely emotional...

[joelf]

First and foremost, it's not like I can DO it---only that I want to.

Guess that's a start.

This is on my mind b/c I have a tendency to mood fluctuation, and when on a downward trend---however temporary---it affects my performing. When happy it's easier, and easier to bond with.

But both zones are the emotional, not spiritual realm. I'm a lifelong agnostic who at least believes that anything is possible or possibly true. I won't slam anyone for their beliefs, only feel that the monotheistic faiths I've been exposed to and dabbled in didn't ring too many bells---for ME, that is. (FWIW, I AM attracted to Buddhist philosophy).

But I DO believe there's a spirit world , and we can tune into it if we choose to. It's above feelings and above egos. Those can be real traps----even the good feelings, when not based in a foundation of reality. That's sort of my point: emotions can cloud reality.

But how to sidestep the temporal and dwell more in that better realm? If I knew i'd do it all the time.

I had 3 gigs this week. The 1st 2 were a struggle. I simply could not rise above the dark cloud hanging over my head. I soldiered through, but didn't play well and couldn't get out of self-absorption mode to care more about the people I was hired to reach. Yet today I felt good and played well on the job, reached people too.

How can I explain or understand this when on all 3 days I'm the same musician and same guy? Of course we all have good and bad days and need to take it all in stride, but I don't think that's the entire answer. Probably on the worse days we have to try extra hard to connect with that higher realm, the one where spirit dwells. I don't know what that's called. Different cultures have different names for it. I just know, or strongly intuit that it's there and in everyone, though too often dormant...

,

[medblues]

First and foremost, it's not like I can DO it---only that I want to.

Guess that's a start.

This is on my mind b/c I have a tendency to mood fluctuation, and when on a downward trend---however temporary---it affects my performing. When happy it's easier, and easier to bond with.
(FWIW, I AM attracted to Buddhist philosophy).

But I DO believe there's a spirit world , and we can tune into it if we choose to. It's above feelings and above egos. Those can be real traps----even the good feelings, when not based in a foundation of reality. That's sort of my point: emotions can cloud reality.

But how to sidestep the temporal and dwell more in that better realm? If I knew i'd do it all the time.

Buddhists meditate to make tuning into that reality less serendipitous and more often, nirvana being the ultimate goal of remaining in that state pervasively.

[Cunamara]

But after enlightenment, the dishes still need to be washed and the garbage still needs to go out.

I don't know if there is some kind of coexisting or parallel spirit realm or not. One day I was out for a walk, looked up at a thunderstorm building off to the east (from the Pelham Avenue bridge for the Twin Citians among us). It was magnificent from where I was standing, luminescent in the afternoon sun. It developed quickly from a wisp of clouds to a full blown thunderhead within a half an hour. The conditions were right for its formation and existence. Then, I reflected, it would go off and rain on people and land and animals and trees, until its water all fell out of the sky and it no longer existed and the conditions were right for its non-existence.

And yet, what was lost? Every molecule of water vapor that made up that cloud had become rain and was now being soaked up by the ground, plants, lakes, filtering into ground water, etc. It dawned on me that the situation is the same for me: I was born and I continue to live, because the conditions were right for that; someday they will not be and I, like the cloud, will give all of the things that make me "me" back to the universe. There is a sort of immortality in that, in keeping with the laws of matter and energy. That's about as spiritual as I can get. Other peoples' experiences are their own.

[pingu]

what’s the question Joel ?

how to get into the ‘zone’
(or whatever word you/we wanna use for the good stuff ?)

how to stay in the zone ?
how to control it ?

what’s the question ?

[joelf]

what’s the question Joel ?

how to get into the ‘zone’
(or whatever word you/we wanna use for the good stuff ?)

how to stay in the zone ?
how to control it ?

what’s the question ?

All of it except 'how to control it'. That's a fool's mission IMO, and keeps you in the logical mind where you probably won't think as intuitively.

I think. Anyway, I have only questions and a strong feeling---no answers. And even if I found some they may not work for someone else.

This ain't lightweight stuff. I'm not sure whether we need to bear down more or just get out of the way and let it happen...

[joelf]

Buddhists meditate to make tuning into that reality less serendipitous and more often, nirvana being the ultimate goal of remaining in that state pervasively.

Don't they also believe that it all starts with thought, and that all things we do, deeds and thoughts, radiate outward and then back to us? Isn't that the principle behind karma? That's supposed to also be a cornerstone of Hinduism, though a friend told me that this actually was born and gestated in Africa...

[joelf]

I think that even the separation of audience from performer is a Western, European concept. In concert halls the performer on stage is physically higher than the listeners, who are sitting down and separate from the stage. In other cultures it's more integrated.

I like Miles Davis's description of 'social music', where the music is just part of the mosaic, and in black communities performers were respected, certainly, but not elevated to the point where they didn't know the wait staff and the patrons. They were either neighbors or the musicians came through town often enough to know and hang out with the locals. In the old days, b/c of the virulent racism here, they also stayed in local homes, not being admitted to the white hotels and sometimes not able to afford the black ones (if there even were any).

I believe in that, rather than the separation. I very much miss Fat Cat in NYC. It was designed with games; (used to be a neighborhood pool hall) the cash bar; the make-out corner and the non-elevated bandstand all equals. People would drift in and out from all going on and cluster around the music when they felt like it, then get up and do something else. It was a more eastern or African use of music.

It was relaxing to play there, which my band did about every 6 weeks. Because of this low-key, non-pressure setting I could break in a band or new material, and also played much better than in the other perhaps better-know NY spots. There were impromptu afternoon jams, and I could go there any time to escape the street scene, chill, use the computer. Ben Gee, the manager who recently died, was a great man and true friend, especially when I ran into some tough times. I wish another venue like that would come to be.

Something unique and uniquely important was lost when Fat Cat closed. (I don't know about the Cellar Dog, in the same location. Never worked there)...

[A. Kingstone]

I saw Jali Lamine Suso (kora) back in the 80's in Toronto and my uptight whiteness was tested when a man danced up to the performers and placed his hat on their heads. Suso didn't seem to mind so why did I?
That said, perhaps spirit is as non-existent as soul and god. The blues or depression is a natural result of our chemicals and wiring. Joel, you mentioned extensive walks were helping with your moods. I hope you're still at it. Self perception is a wonderful thing and given proper shelter, food and water (and that our neighbours are not trying to kill us for whatever reason) philosophy, art, music and love can be a fine way to spend the few years we have.

[joelf]

Joel, you mentioned extensive walks were helping with your moods. I hope you're still at it. Self perception is a wonderful thing and given proper shelter, food and water (and that our neighbours are not trying to kill us for whatever reason) philosophy, art, music and love can be a fine way to spend the few years we have.

I now go to the gym every morning and do at least 1/2 hour-40 minutes of aerobics. I push myself to ratchet it up, especially on the machines. Swimming is great, must be something wonderful in those negative ions.

I have those things: food, water, shelter. I lucked up on a cheap apartment w/parking. Now I'm meeting local and good players finally. Starting a better teaching gig soon, playing a lot with my chops stronger every day. I'm ready to meet and fall for that special lady, and have her fall too. And a mere 4 months ago I was not in top shape physically or mentally.

No shortage of gratitude or blessing-counting on this end.

I think self-perception is useful. (Self-absorption is not). Therapy has helped many people, including myself. The good therapist holds up a mirror metaphorically for the client to look in, then make adjustments to whatever they've done to get in their own or others' way. But I still feel that's just the tip of the iceberg. We can connect with that bigger entity and ignore the small 'i'. This is why people meditate, chant, pray in or out of church---although there can def be selfish motives there too. We do this with our music, when we're getting it right. Also, a little ass-kicking by life can be a great motivator to get it together. We ought to see everything that happens, good, bad, inbetween, as happening for a reason and as opportunities to grow. I am convinced in my own life that certain people were brought to me not by accident, also the reverse. I can't swear it was by design, that would infer acknowledgement of a God pulling strings, and I'm not feeling that. But they've appeared, or I did, and have done so at the exact moments when someone like who they are or I am were needed. No way this was accidental. I couldn't pinpoint the whys or whos, but it's important to think more deeply on it, at least to me.

And art is a great teacher. When we successfully play with other musicians, we succeed b/c everyone's listening and responding. It's a conversation of spirits that uplifts all participants, especially the listeners. We have a great opportunity for this each time out and are lucky to have this is a calling.

Re ego: speaking for myself I'd say mine is healthy, but realistic and not overbearing. We can't and shouldn't lose it entirely, it's the gas that gets us around. But let's have it recede some. That's not too difficult.

As far as those blah days playing, when, quoting a Stevie Wonder-Syreeta lyric, 'Where is my spirit? I'm nowhere near it...' Eddie Henderson was bummed w/his playing one day with Mawandishi.

Herbie Hancock told him 'So today you played that'.

And Sonny Rollins, a true philosopher, has said 'every day you have another chance'. Those guys may have the ego that comes with huge talent, but they also seek, and often find the 'beyond' in music and life...

[medblues]

Don't they also believe that it all starts with thought, and that all things we do, deeds and thoughts, radiate outward and then back to us? Isn't that the principle behind karma? That's supposed to also be a cornerstone of Hinduism, though a friend told me that this actually was born and gestated in Africa...

Yes, that's the concept of karma. There is much overlap between Buddhism and Hinduism (and other spiritual traditions even within the monotheistic religions- e.g. sufism, Quakers). I did not study the African mystic philosophies.

[joelf]

Yes, that's the concept of karma. There is much overlap between Buddhism and Hinduism (and other spiritual traditions even within the monotheistic religions- e.g. sufism, Quakers). I did not study the African mystic philosophies.

Seems like they all share a common thread, namely purveying the Golden Rule.

With that in common it would be nice if they practiced more what they preached and stopped bad-mouthing each other or saying the other is wrong. And don't let's even get started on the misuse of religions' tenets. To wit: holy wars, or nations---theocratic or otherwise---using God's name to justify horrific acts.

This is just one of many why reasons I run the other way from organized religion. Zen is a practice, not a religion. I'd like to learn what I can from it and apply it, but also can do without the rituals or the robes. I understand why they do it, just prefer to pass. Maybe I would do sitting sessions. I think that would be good for me, since I'm high-strung and my mind moves too fast. It would be like what a metronome does.

What I do like about people joining churches is that it's a way for well-meaning folks to bond and get together to do some good in their communities. I just don't do God, in the Judeo-Christian sense. I've told people 'There's only one letter to add to God to get good. I like good, that's a, well, good thing to aspire to.

You can cull from them all w/o joining anything and still come out ahead.

I'm an eclectic, not an ecclesiastic...

[medblues]

Sitting practices are good (Transcendental Meditation and some others). If you can't tolerate that, you can try Tai Chi or Hatha Yoga. "Art of Living" teaches you some breathing techniques.

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think you need to take a look at things from a different angle. The spirit world, or whatever you believe in, might give you some calm, but I'd look more to sports. Musicians have more in common with athletes than shaman. Lots of research and books have been written about "The Flow". Maybe, you can start there.

Article on The Flow - Frontiers | Achieving Flow: An Exploratory Investigation of Elite College Athletes and Musicians

Also, look at Effortless Mastery by Kenny Warner. His book lays out ways to help you get to the zone/flow state and provides techniques to help you achieve it.

[rpjazzguitar]

I hope that things happen for a reason, including mood changes.

Lots of life can fall outside of conscious awareness. Influences can be primarily emotional or primarily biochemical (if you can even consider them separate, which may be a convenient fiction), or some combination.

So, how to figure it out and produce change? Starts, I think, with a full exploration of the cognitive/emotional issues along with a medical checkup focused on things that can affect mood. That is, a visit to a therapist and a visit to the PCP.

[joelf]

I hope that things happen for a reason, including mood changes.

Lots of life can fall outside of conscious awareness. Influences can be primarily emotional or primarily biochemical (if you can even consider them separate, which may be a convenient fiction), or some combination.

So, how to figure it out and produce change? Starts, I think, with a full exploration of the cognitive/emotional issues along with a medical checkup focused on things that can affect mood. That is, a visit to a therapist and a visit to the PCP.

Good call...

[Jimmy Smith]

I've had a breakthrough with keeping my disposition / spiritual outlook up. I realized if I just focus on either making the right / good decision, or relaxation / peace, there is nothing left to worry about. That literally takes care of everything. If you're always making decisions and building habits of either good or peace then it starts to mold your life overall.

Since there's a lot of conflict in society, it eventually occurred to me that even if there is bad in society, if I'm a good person, it's still my responsibility to cultivate good. Like one day I'm going to be dead. That is not what I want to be about in life, just hating all the time. Being preoccupied with fighting the negativity just makes you feel bad and compounds the negativity. So I try to distance myself from the negativity and confront it for defense if necessary. Going full monk reacting zero to negativity makes me feel too raged like serenity now in Seinfeld, but I find striking a balance of just making an effort to distance myself from the negativity works best for me.

The physical aspect. I like sports and working out. I recently went vegetarian and that made me feel way better. Like it's the best quick trick to feeling good I've ever experienced in my life. I don't want to eat those poor innocent beasties. Think about it, you're consuming death. That has to affect you somehow to make that a part of your body or not. I also quit drinking this year which was the last of my drug use. So no recreational drugs of any kind.

[AllanAllen]

All of it except 'how to control it'. That's a fool's mission IMO, and keeps you in the logical mind where you probably won't think as intuitively.

I think. Anyway, I have only questions and a strong feeling---no answers. And even if I found some they may not work for someone else.

This ain't lightweight stuff. I'm not sure whether we need to bear down more or just get out of the way and let it happen...

[joelf]

A wise man for sure.

I've been called a genius and damn near one myself---but also by one cutting curmudgeon a stumblebum who 'can't play and never could'. Doubtless the answer lies in the middle, hopefully at least a little closer to the former than the latter.

Anyway it doesn't matter how brilliant one is, but what's done with it. A purported born genius who squanders the gift may as well be a moron...

[medblues]

A wise man for sure.

I've been called a genius and damn near one myself---but also by one cutting curmudgeon a stumblebum who 'can't play and never could'. Doubtless the answer lies in the middle, hopefully at least a little closer to the former than the latter.

Anyway it doesn't matter how brilliant one is, but what's done with it. A purported born genius who squanders the gift may as well be a moron...

Alternative way of thinking:

Kim Ung-yong - Wikipedia


"In 2010, Kim criticized the idea that he is a "failed genius". Reflecting upon the label, he stated, “I'm trying to tell people that I am happy the way I am. But why do people have to call my happiness a failure?”. Additionally, he added that "Some think people with a high IQ can be omnipotent, but that's not true. Look at me, I don't have musical talent, nor am I excelling in sports. [...] Society should not judge anyone with unilateral standards – everyone has different learning levels, hopes, talents, and dreams and we should respect that".^["

[mr. beaumont]

Interesting thread...been thinking for a few days how to articulate my thoughts.

I am not a religious person. I find the concept of "God" to be too full of fallacies to buy into. I see people suffer so much, if there is a "god" they certainly are not all good or omnipotent.

I am, however, spiritual in the sense that I think there is a tie that links all humanity together. It can be seen/felt in a lot of different ways, but the Arts are certainly one of the most successful ways. To sit with a stranger and be able to make music together? How beautiful is that? To me it's proof that our job here is to do what we can to make the short ride we have better for the people we come into contact with. Is there a reward after? Who cares? I can be happy and make others happy NOW.

[jazznylon]

I think its important to find a purpose in life otherwise one is just going with the flow that leads to the waterfall. Not that its anything 'wrong' either as we're all heading to it anyways but its nice to find something to do that gives one meaning.

[joelf]

Additionally, he added that "Some think people with a high IQ can be omnipotent, but that's not true. Look at me, I don't have musical talent, nor am I excelling in sports.[ .^["

That's interesting. I know I have high intelligence in the abstract and the verbal. But I suck at math---and music is mathematical. But you can be intuitively mathematical, I guess.

A problem for people with high I.Q.s is slowing the brain down. You get so many thoughts, ideas, images, fantasies, etc. that it's hard to keep up. Not only that. but if you run your 'circuits' too hard you can easily burn out, and fast. Then it's possible for the brain to shut itself down or even collapse into depression, as a self-protective move. Or, just as bad, you start making mistakes.

And the 'benefits' of multi-tasking is a big deception IMO. The more things you try to do at one time the more each one suffers. If your brain moves too fast force yourself to do just one thing at a time, and really get into it in depth. You'll have more energy to do the next thing, and the confidence that comes with accomplishing something...

[joelf]

Interesting thread...been thinking for a few days how to articulate my thoughts.

I am not a religious person. I find the concept of "God" to be too full of fallacies to buy into. I see people suffer so much, if there is a "god" they certainly are not all good or omnipotent.

I am, however, spiritual in the sense that I think there is a tie that links all humanity together. It can be seen/felt in a lot of different ways, but the Arts are certainly one of the most successful ways. To sit with a stranger and be able to make music together? How beautiful is that? To me it's proof that our job here is to do what we can to make the short ride we have better for the people we come into contact with. Is there a reward after? Who cares? I can be happy and make others happy NOW.

Well put, Jeff---and I couldn't have said it better or could agree more with everything you wrote. It's a short ride for sure. (Hard to believe I'll be 70 next trip around the sun). And I don't feel the 'sky God' thing either. Why wait for a reward in a place that probably doesn't exist?

Do good and try your best in the here and now. And try to connect with that great connecter of humanity...

[Kirk Garrett]

I remember reading a CS Lewis book where he said it doesn’t matter how you feel. You don’t have to feel a certain way to to be loving, to do loving things. In fact real love is more of a series of actions than a feeling. But Lewis was a sky god guy, and not a “higher realm with spirit” guy, and he wrote a lot about the difference between those two things.

I have found his observation about feeling very helpful in my own life. And I’d say you’re doing the right thing just keeping at it.

[joelf]

...But Lewis was a sky god guy, and not a “higher realm with spirit” guy...

OK, so what writers are 'God is in you' guys? Inquiring minds...