Wes Montgomery Re-issues

[daveg]

For the Wes Montgomery Completists there have been two significant issues in the past month. Firstly "The Complete Full House Recordings" which contains two previously unissued tracks. "S.O.S. take 1" has never been issued before and neither has the take of "Full House" in which Wes' solo was replaced by a different take on the original LP/CD issues.



Secondly "The Unissued 1965 Half Notes Recordings" contains material which has only been previously available on unofficial and sometimes poor quality "bootleg" CDs. The quality of the material has been improved and this is now a very enjoyable CD which shows Wes in a "Live" setting improvising at length.



DG

[joelf]

'Completist' is the right word.

Alternate takes can be fascinating and edifying listening. They also can amount to too much of a good thing. At least for me, my brain and ears can only take in so much at one listen. So I listen in installments. And I wonder why the alternates weren't released from the jump? Of course space considerations in the LP era were a primary reason, but maybe these cuts were back-burnered b/c it was agreed by artist and producer that in some instances they weren't quite as strong or representative as the ones picked?

And now for a controversial opinion:

Other than for historical perspective, I feel that at least of few of the Resonance recordings may have been best left in the vaults, They sometimes don't showcase Wes and conferes at their best. On Brazil and some other tracks the whole damn band speeds up and up.

Still, I'm glad that listeners get to finally hear seasoned vets like Earl Van Riper. That's a wonderful and important thing.

But I do prefer Fingerpicking and similar items myself. Can't beat brotherly love captured in a good studio, and Wes was well-seasoned by then. And Buddy is underrated to this day---and Monk an innovator on electric bass...

[AllanAllen]

And now for a controversial opinion:

Other than for historical perspective, I feel that at least of few of the Resonance recordings may have been best left in the vaults, They sometimes don't showcase Wes and conferes at their best.

I haven't listened to the Wes stuff, but I agree about unreleased takes staying in the vault in general.

For every gem like Billie Holiday's All Of Me that went unreleased because it's too long to fit on a single, there are thousands and thousands of duds. Most of the unreleased stuff is just, not good enough, and now with digital releases we are drowning in the stuff. A take 15 of something in the studio, yeah, they're tired and it sounds tired and that's why it was shelved. If you've ever fought with a song in a studio you know. The takes get worse as your money goes down the toilet and the drummer gets drunk.

[bluenote61]

When I read the headline of this thread, I thought it's about guitars...

[mr. beaumont]

I like them, from the sense of hearing things come together. It's interesting how some player's solos will follow a similar shape on an alternate take whereas others will go in a completely different direction. I don't normally listen to them for the enjoyment of listening, more for learning and comparing.

What I don't like is how Verve used to sequence them with alternate takes and false starts right after/before the album take. Put the alternates at thend, I'll get to them when I want

[wintermoon]

I like the alternates as it gives perspective on what an artists thought process is. Orrin Keepnews said he'd get frustrated w/ Wes because he nixed so many takes--he'd write rejected because 'WM dislikes his solo' in his studio log. Keepnews thought the rejects were as good if not better in some instances. In hearing multiple versions I can usually hear why I think Wes rejected certain takes, there might be a little flub he made or an idea that he didn't quite develop but Wes is an example of an artist so great that even the alternates could have been initially released and no one would have been the wiser/disappointed. For example, there are 4 takes of 'Tune Up' on the complete Riverside recordings and they're all fab.
There was a double lp released in the 80s called the Alternative Wes Montgomery which contained outtakes and it was cool to hear the different solos from what was ingrained in my mind all those years.
Until reading the op's post I had no idea one of his other solos was spliced into the original released Full House, interesting....
Since there's apparently only 2 unreleased cuts I'll probably skip the Full House cd and listen on youtube when they'll be posted, but probably will grab the Half Note one eventually.

[Doctor Jeff]

I have spent years collecting and listening to bootlegs and Euro recordings and reissues with alternate takes of all kinds of music.

I find some of them extremely interesting, especially the takes that show a different direction or working toward a certain result. Some of the Beatle's compilations are like that, for instance the Sergeant Pepper's expanded edition.

I have to say musically the "new" Beatles song Now and Then may not be top shelf, but I found myself getting teary-eyed just listening to it, knowing where it came from and seeing the significance in the message.

And now and then
If we must start again
Well, we will know for sure
That I will love you.

Now and then
I miss you
Oh, now and then
I want you to be there for me.

There's no doubt that there's a reason most of this stuff did not end up on the final record. Most artists (or at least their management!) heavily curate their output. A lot of people think this is being stingy, but most of the time it was for the best.

Heck, Paul even issued his own take on Let It Be (Naked). It's NOT as good as the original LIB, which most of us have imprinted in our brains like the times tables.

There are some exceptions of course. The first Miles album I actually bought was Circle in the Round, a collection of outtakes and alternates, which was a great introduction to Miles and in fact even now I prefer the outtakes over some of the official recordings. The recent Coltrane/Dolphy record was cool. Zappa's estate has put out a lot of reissues with "correct" edits and song selections, at least what Zappa wanted, Laether being one example.

There are probably a lot of others I'm not thinking of right now. IMO more Wes like more Coltrane is always a good thing.

[Cunamara]

I suppose, since they are not with us to make new music, we will have to make do with previously unheard music from back in the day.


I find myself agreeing with the sentiment about outtakes and unreleased versions often having been so for a reason. When I got the Tal Farlow box set, I was really quite disappointed with some of the aborted attempts at tunes. I don't need to hear the band fall apart 14 bars into a tune. That does not provide me with any enjoyment or edification. Successful alternative takes, on the other hand, can be really quite interesting because they do play against our expectations and familiarity.

On the other hand, sometimes not. I bought the extended version of A Love Supreme, which includes some live performances. While there are moments on those that are brilliant, I think that the studio album actually captured lightning in a bottle that none of the live performances do. I think the original album was the definitive documentation of that spark, that moment. Although, who knows, 10 years from now I might feel differently about that.

[mikeSF]

thanks for the post. I picked up both of these releases on vinyl because i'm a Wes completist, lol. Wes was always so polished on his studio dates and TV spots, that the Full House Tapes show him in a more spontaneous setting. If you know some of his devices, here you can pick out variations on those and even him working though a few early passes. this is cool.
I made a mistake purchasing the Maximum Swing:Full House on vinyl, as it was $91+tax and not the kind of record I will play again. Would've been better with some mp3s of the tracks to study, but it isnt practical do lift the arm and repeat.
...oh geez, that exactly how i used to learn anything when i was a kid.

[yebdox]

I like the alternates as it gives perspective on what an artists thought process is.

This. Alternate takes are so informative... What did they like, what ideas were worth developing, what didn’t work. I'm nearly a "completist" re Wes for that reason, and only for a few other artists I really want to study that way: Holdsworth, Ford and Metheny come to mind, Bernstein, Kreisberg and Van Ruller, as well, especially to see how they change tempos, intros, time feel, section arrangements, etc.

In that same vein, it’s instructional for me to see how some more “modern” (or perhaps just more individualistic?) players who use more advanced harmonies approach a standard. John Stowell is a friend of mine whose sense of harmony and line creation is so complex, that it helps me to understand what he’s doing when he is reined in by harmonies I’m more familiar with. Same with Kreisberg and Van Ruller.

The Wes Half Note bootlegs are absolutely a kick. Wes takes some really extended solos and never comes up short.

[daveg]

In the case of the Half Note tracks I do not see how they can be seen as "alternatives" in much the same way as Wes' multiple versions of "Here' that rainy day" or "West coast blues" or " 'Round midnight" etc on different dates with different personnel cannot be classed as "alternatives". They are "Alternatives" only in the sense that they were recorded on different dates with different personnel. How many times did Coltrane record "Impressions" on different dates with different personnel; are they also considered as "alternatives"?

DG

P.S. Please excuse my insistence on the use of the word "Alternative".

Explanation: In both British and American English the adjective alternate means ‘every other or every second’, as in ‘they meet on alternate Sundays’, or ‘(of two things) each following and succeeded by the other in a regular pattern’, as in ‘alternate layers of potato and sauce’. Alternative means ‘available as another possibility or choice’ (‘an alternative take’).