Tapping feet and time feel

[PatrickWD]

Hi!

Lately i have focused a bit more on improving my time feel.

There a lot of interesting videos on youtube with interesting advice on the subject.

One video i saw recently was a masterclass with Hal Galper where he advices people to tap their feet on 1 and 3, and essentially feel a swing song in "half time".

This is something i have only done on very up tempo swing before, but now i have tried it on medium tempo swing as well.
It does feel different and evens out the swing feel a bit i find.

I usually have the metronome on 2 and 4, but now i try to feel the song in half time and have the metronome on the "and" of every beat.

Looking at videos of some of my favourite players, John Scofield and Jonathan Kreisberg i see they rarely tap their feet at all.


I find it really hard to play without tapping my feet at all. Probably out of habit.


So i'm wondering:

How many of you guys here tap their feet on every beat in a medium swing tempo, like 160 bpm?

How many does not tap their feet at all?

[2bornot2bop]

Interesting. My first piano teacher told me to never tap my feet. It didn’t take. Whatever works for you is the right thing to do.

[pamosmusic]

I don’t tap my foot, but I feel like it’s always good to put the beat in your body somehow.

[James W]

I tap my foot when starting practising a phrase/lick/bebop head, but depending how long it is, may not continue to tap my foot to the end.

[pamosmusic]

I usually do a weird awkward bob or nod or something.

[rpjazzguitar]

I've made a point of looking at players' feet to see tapping patterns.

Good players do it a lot of different ways.

In 4/4, variously:

Tapping every quarter note. I know one pro pianist who will tap quarters even at blistering tempos.

Quarters, but alternating feet.

Heel and toe on quarters.

2 4

1 3

Just 1, at fast tempos.

Not tapping at all (quite common in the horns)

Feet move, but not in time. More randomly, or so it seems when I watch it. I think this one is done by people who don't have great time. Not that common.

And, as a slight hijack, the count-in matters.

Chart says cut time. Some count in 4 some count in 2. Sometimes somebody will start at half or double the correct tempo. Some will explain the count by counting and singing the first phrase.

Some count 1 2 3 and don't say 4. Just three beats to assimilate the tempo. I prefer more syllables in tempo in the count.

One view is that all count-ins should be 2 bars, including the pickup notes. That works pretty well in 4/4, but can be a little tough in 3/4 with a long pickup.

Odd meters are a different topic. How to tap in 7/4? I like 1 3 5 7 1 3 5 etc. Which means the transition from 7 to 1 is double speed. How about fast 6/8? Count six or count two? Mostly I see 2. But, if you tap in two and the melody is broken into eighth notes you have to be careful.

One of my teachers used the expression "good foot". Meaning, I think, rock steady tempo in the foot. That guy, who plays Carnegie Hall every year, also counsels that you have to move your body somehow to play your best.

[Peter C]

I didn't know that I tapped my feet until I did a few videos for this forum a while back. It just happens, or not.

[PatrickWD]

Interesting!

Seems like there's a lot variations here.

I have always tapped my feet in all my 25 years of playing. Not usually as a conscious thing, but it just happens. Even when listening to music.

When working on time feel this seems to be worth some experimenting. It does seem like it has an effect on how i play, but that might just be because it's a habit to tap my feet on every beat in 4/4 swing, so it feels weird not to in the beginning.


When playing odd meters i usually tap my feet according to the sub devision of the song. So in 7/8 it might be on 1 4 6 if the groove is 3+2+2. 6/8 is usually on 1 and 4.

[Tal_175]

I like taping my foot on 1 and 3 especially when I do this particular exercise. The exercise is soloing based on the changes of a tune without a metronome or a backing track, just my taping my foot on 1 and 3. I do this for several choruses while playing the changes and being aware of where I'm in the tune at all times. The goal is to get into a good groove and gradually get more adventurous with the rhythmic content of the lines. Once I feel I'm locked in, I introduce chord stabs and chordal phrases. I even stop playing and just tap my foot at times while the tune is still going in my imagination, and then merge back with it.

I think this is a good way practice a tune to play it in a combo setting because even when you're playing with others, you have to be able to trust your own time feel and also know where you are in the tune even if everybody else screws up.

[Litterick]

I can't. Tapping is just not in me.

[rpjazzguitar]

Another point about tapping.

When I'm reading, especially tricky stuff, like odd meters or really unusual rhythms, it seems to help to think carefully about how I'm going to tap my foot. Sometimes, for example, in 2/4, I tap eighths. But then, if the feel or time signature changes I have to remember that I'm tapping eighths, not quarters. It's possible to get confused.

I have no idea if this is a common problem.

[Alter]

At fast temps, I've found it useful to tap only on one, as it offers stability. (Lots of players do it). Usually I do 2 and 4, or all beats sometimes. I try to tap according to the pulse I'm after, but also keep track of the bars (or four bars) by moving the upper body back and forth sometimes..

If you play two or three set jazz gigs, it can actually be tiring for your feet to tap all night, so not tapping is a nice habit to have!

[bediles]

1 and 3 when it gets fast

[mr. beaumont]

I squidge my toes inside my shoe. You wouldn't see it, but it's there.
Faster it goes, fewer the squidges. Maybe just the one.

Style matters too, re: 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. Stomping at the Savoy, 2 and 4. Cherokee at 300bpm? 1 and 3. Or just the 1.

[hotpepper01]

I play bigbands only. I find it usefull to move my RH hand up and down as soon as the conductor provides the tempo of a song when counting off prior to starting the tune. A bit like James Chirillo does. Do I tap my LH foot? Sure, but not allways. The hardest thing I find is timing those long rests, say 16-32 measures. Those I count in measures with the fingers of my left hand. Very visual to the public , but I do not want to get lost in feeling instead of counting. A good steady BPM keeping and listening drummer and bass player are a blessing, so I can "lock into" A clear conductor is a gift as well. Above certain tempo's I only count the 1 and play in 2 to a bar instead of the regular 4 to a bar. At present, 260+ BPM with chord changes within a bar is the utmost I (senior) am able to handle. Of course some can do much better...

[pamosmusic]

I think some context for the Galper thing.

When he mentions the tapping on 1 and 3, he says it in the context of creating more rhythmic interest and forward motion in a line, and he says it’s good to do at any tempo.

One example he mentions is that most people sound kind of stale trying to play eighth note lines at 180, but play double time and triplet lines on a ballad at 90. He says he thinks folk think better at slower tempos, even if they’re actually playing just as fast. Not sure if that’s true overall, but it’s definitely true for me.

So something I think might be relevant to that is that feeling a tune in 2 has some implications for how I think about changes. No matter the tempo, if I see two chords in a bar, it’s probably 80/20 that I’ll try to play them both. If I see three or four in a bar, I’m almost instinctively going to streamline them. So I think there’s something there when I start feeling a tune in 2. I end up feeling a little freer to float over some of the changes. Nothing crazy, but if a tune is flying by with chords every two beats, when I feel it in two, that’ll start feeling like a chord on every beat and I’ll start streamlining stuff without really thinking too hard about it. I don’t mean I ignore the changes but just like … that 1 6 2 5 is just 1 and 5 now. Oh that Ab7 going down to G7 is just embellishment. That kind of thing.

[BreckerFan]

I don't tap my foot, but I weirdly and subconsciously keep time with my picking hand on a muted string during any rests, even if just a couple beats of rest.