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I just got back from a big band rehearsal with a band I regularly play with, and was surprised to see a younger looking guy on bass, instead of the ugly old guy we usually have. It turned out that the guy thought he could play bass with a big band, even though he couldn't read bass clef!
The whole night was a complete disaster.
He didn't play any right notes, because he thought there would be chord symbols instead of notes. Some of the guys knew him because they played in some band that plays catered affairs with him, and said he was a good guitarist.I told them that that had nothing to do with reading a bass part in a modern big band.
I brought two charts that I had recently written, and was looking forward to hearing them played for the first time, but I kept them in my folder I told the leader to not call me if he was going to use this guy as a sub.
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09-19-2023 01:13 AM
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My bass teacher , a long time friend gave me an earful when I started lessons . " Nothing worse than a frustrated guitar player who can't get a gig and decides Bass is an easy way out." My nephew , a fellow Luthier and pro bass player was equally forceful about NOT approaching it like a guitar. Fortunately my first instruments were drum and viola so I had a grasp of groove and playing fretless.
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And yet we should have an advantage. When I play bass, I just try to play it as I like it played for me. There’s an old saying that criminals make the best judges
Originally Posted by Greywolf
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I find bass to be the most natural , instinctual instrument I play . I feel blessed to have enjoyed music from all sides for 60 years. Drums, Viola-Violin, Guitar, Bass,Mandolin, Conga's , Lutherie , Sound/recording engineer and talent scout.
Every day is another chance to grow and learn from so many inspiring people.
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yeah an E Bass is a similar looking thing to an E Guitar ….
But it’s a completely different
instrument ….
for me Bass is the most important role in a band ….
It controls everything
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...for better or worse! Originally Posted by pingu
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Hopefully the young guy will realize he should learn to read bass clef.
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Are you gonna fire him?
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Controversial take, it’s not rocket science. Just walk 1 3 5 7 arpeggios, hit the root on the one and sometimes also the two, you’ll be so solid people will love you.
I bet he would have been fine with a chord chart.
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Oh man, please tell me you’re joking! Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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It's true, bass really isn't rocket science. The dude might want to be able to read tho before trying for big band lol.
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Do all bass players read music well?
However, if a good guitarist takes up playing the bass, he should not embarrass himself.
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Yeah, you're right; if he had a chord chart it would've been alright, but we weren't playing swing dance music, we were playing modern jazz charts by Thad Jones, etc..., and the way the modern arrangers voice the chords, the bass is the only one playing the root. All the other guys, even the bass trombone and the baritone sax, are playing other notes in the chord, so without the bass playing the root, it sounds like crap, because Thad is using at least three or four chord changes each measure, so the bass player can't get away with R,3, 5, 7 anymore like he could in the music of Glen Miller, Benny Goodman, and all the swing bands of the 30s and 40s. One measure had EIGHT different chords in it, and it wasn't just a chromatic thing! Originally Posted by AllanAllen
To make matters worse, the leader called "Tip Toe" which is famous for having a soli section where the whole band drops out, and it's just the trombones and the bass playing a very difficult bebop solo with no one behind them.
The bass player laid out, didn't play one note, while my friend, a young sax player was yelling at him "Letter G!" and the bass player was just ignoring him.
I thought he didn't have the chops to play it, because it's mostly 16th notes, and it was written for Richard Davis to play.
We didn't have any breaks, cause the leader wanted to go home early, so I didn't know that the bass player couldn't read bass clef until the end of the rehearsal. Otherwise, I would have played bass (I can read bass clef,) and he could've played guitar, but he was set up on the other side of the room, so I didn't get a chance to speak to him at all.
He was just subbing for the regular bass player, so the regular guy should be back next time.
To make matters worse, the regular piano player wasn't there either, and the sub couldn't read piano music either, just changes, so I was getting it from both sides.
I should have known there was something different about him when I pulled up in the parking lot, and he was getting something to drink from his car.
I said something like, "This rain is a bitch", and he just stared back at me, like a zombie. Then I walked into the country club to set up, and the zombie walks over to the piano. I thought, 'this is gonna be a long night'.
His changes sounded like twelve-tone music harmonies!
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It's not my band. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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It might have just been a semantics problem. I mean, if you don't read bass clef, and there are no written chords, you're really @#$__@$ for the gig, you can only try playing by ear? Good luck with that with a modern big bang..
I've played bass one full season in a ten horn ensemble, but I was writing half the charts, so no real problem in reading even though my bass clef sight reading is pretty weak.
If you love Joe Pass sooner or later you can practice and become competent at playing bass lines, but it's a different instrument, you have to by careful not to stress your hands. And at some point you realize that you can't even miss a beat the whole night, or the whole thing falls apart! That was the most difficult thing for me. But it's a great feeling to be part of the rhythm section and get to drive the music that way. I do miss it..!
For most music styles, bass is the center of the groove, it can really make or break the whole band..Last edited by Alter; 09-21-2023 at 06:01 AM.
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I learned the double bass at a music school, but I wouldn't be able to play the musical parts today in a modern big band.
I haven't practiced the double bass for 45 years, although I like this instrument very much.
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I enjoy playing bass but wouldn’t inflict it on paying customers…
it’s a lot of power and responsibility
Ive never had too much trouble with bass clef, but I’d say my reading lags behind my treble clef reading (mostly just cos of muscle memory). I like to read through the sher real books. They sometimes have written bass lines .
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Actually the other week the big band I play in couldn’t find a bass player, so it was me and drums for the first half and a pianist joined us for the second (he was all over the bass)
was a learning process haha
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Indeed - it's a very different instrument, starting with the basics of the note. Most guitar players who dabble in bass pluck notes as though they were playing a guitar solo. They sustain some of them too long and cut many so short that it sounds like slap bass without the slap. They tend to play with the beat a bit, leading or trailing it in an attempt to add the kind of expression that makes a guitar line sound so good. Unfortunately, it just makes the beat feel uneven or irregular. This is also true for dynamics - expressive ups and downs are rarely appropriate unless the whole band is doing it together. Originally Posted by Alter
It's not easy to sustain the beat through an entire tune if you're not used to doing it, especially when the chart has much of the band playing around the beat whle the bassist and drummer (plus rhythm guitar if present) are maintaining it. Extensions rarely sound good in a bass line, and the upper reaches of the fingerboard have to be used judiciously except during solos. The bass either makes a band sound tight and together or it muddies the pocket if there's even the slightest bit of slop. Playing bass well in any ensemble is not easy. It takes restraint, physical strength, great timing, good taste, and a lot more. I do not take bass players for granted - the good ones are great and the less-than-good ones are barnacles on the band's hull.
I learned all this the hard way many years ago from my mates in the band with which I was playing at least 2 weddings & Bar Mitzvahs every week. The above is just a small part of the crticism I got from them when I volunteered to play bass on a wedding gig because our regular bass player got sick and no same day replacement could be found. I had a P-bass and had been playing with it for a few years at home - "how hard can it be?" I found out.
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So I guess like everything it depends on the tune and the gig. But generally, the bass is about foundation for everyone else. So you could walk basic chords and ignore #11s. But then a gig like OPs comes along and you can’t anymore. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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The few times I got my hands around a bass I always enjoyed playing. The feeling of digging in to those thick bass strings is unmatched... though I still got my hands tied trying to get around with the guitar and stuff. I'm content with my 10 string, no more instruments for me
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I don’t think that’s quite what he meant. Bass is about linking up the chords more than it is about arpeggiating the one you’re on. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Not that I’m any good at it.
Though I’ve found myself in a few situations recently where I’m leading pretty young kids in bands and bass is kind of the tops for leading kids in a band. You can control so many different aspects of what’s going on depending on what you need. So that’s been fun.
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I LOVE playing bass, it's fun and beautiful. But I only play bass solo, not with other instruments. It's a pleasure I reserve for myself alone (to keep it a pleasure! ) in my music room when the mood strikes me. I wouldn't pretend to be a bass player by any stretch. But while you're reading, here's a terrible old bass joke
Kid: I want to sign up for bass lessons!
Teacher: Fine, I'm free we can start now with the notes on the first 5 frets of the E string
(next day) Teacher: Today we'll look at the notes on the first 5 frets of the A string.
(next day) Student doesn't show up
(next day) Teacher: Where were you yesterday? Student: I had a gig!
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Bass not being rocket science... maybe not but it's every bit as difficult as being a guitar player. I'd rather listen to a band with a poor guitar player than a poor bass player that is for sure
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I have a bass but don't play well.
Though I love to hear good bass playing (-we all know Carol Kaye is a hero of mine), when I take up the bass it's just to give some bottom to a demo. Better bass playing would be a big plus, but my demos aren't of my bass playing. ;o)
Ironically, Carol Kaye began her studio career as a guitarist. One day the bassist didn't show and she gave it a shot. She fell in love with it and felt she was more creative with it. (But she's no slouch on the guitar by any means.)
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