-
What's really important to you with guitar videos? I am trying to figure out how to increase my engagement, while still providing worthwhile content to my fans and audience. I was watching a video the other day about "how to make guitar videos the right way".
In the video, the producer states that 85% of people who scroll through video thumbnails don't even listen to the audio of the video.
His work looks super clean and there's an emphasis on presentation in order to bring people in and provide something that is entertaining as well as informative.
I wonder how much the demographic matters for the kinds of instructional things I'm doing?
Ultimately, it would be nice to derive some type of revenue from my videos, either in the way of pull through sales for my books, or private lessons, or some future product offering.
Currently, my videos seem to have no effect on sales of my books.
The market is super saturated now but I know of guys making a great living through youtube engagement ads and such.
Thoughts?
-
08-14-2023 05:04 PM
-
My thoughts? Who exactly is making a great living off engagement ads? What is a great living?
Originally Posted by jzucker
Are you sure the living isn’t from something else?
For example, the Open Studio guys have an entire online school that’s the real revenue stream, the youtube content is the advertisement.
-
My suggestion is to contact Jake Reichbart, who posts around here sometimes. He has well over 500 (!!!) performance youtube videos (probably closer to 600 by now) and 200+ download lesson videos for sale on his site: DVDs/downloadable guitar lessons
Youtube: Jake Reichbart - YouTube
He also has a couple of performance CDs and two books with Hal Leonard, and a long term restaurant solo guitar gig among others.
With all that, he would seem to be a good resource for experience. I have exchanged emails with him as well as having purchased many of his lessons. He is a really nice guy and might be willing to provide some advice.
Tony
-
This is my (I guess, somewhat limited) experience too. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
It’s really difficult to get a satisfying standalone lesson in that super watchable length of time (I’m sure there are dissertations on ideal video length). When you make something easily digestible, you almost necessarily sacrifice context and depth. So at the point you’re making videos to provide all that scaffolding. At that point, you’re basically designing a course of study anyway.
EDIT: To Allen’s point, I think the example everyone here will think of pretty immediately is Jens Larsen. He has hundreds of these bite sized videos on YouTube and Instagram and I’m 100% sure he makes some ad revenue, but he also has other things on his site and a Patreon with 1200 monthly subscribers. So if you’re looking for that kind of thing — miscellaneous lessons for a somewhat niche audience (jazz nerds with the chops to digest your material) a Sheets of Sound Patreon might be the move.
-
I hated that video. The presenter talked as if he were holding the viewer hostage. He had no humour and a monotonous voice. He was in my face. And all those cuts were annoying: like almost everybody who makes instruction videos, he prefers to cut and splice, rather than rehearsing and delivering (compare and contrast Mary Spender).
If you type 'jazz guitar' into your browser of choice, and choose the video results, most of the top results will be Jens Larsen's lessons. And no wonder: he talks as if he is your friend, he is lively, and he is fun. He tells you upfront what he will teach in the lesson and why it matters. He has an interesting voice. He talks in complete sentences.
As for your videos, Jack, I find the many pictures on the wall behind you distracting. A small number of large and distant objects (such as the amps in Beato's studio) make a more effective background. Darkness can be your friend.
-
I think it’s good advice that should be easy to action. I do clean my room, haha, but I think I could do more with the second step. As for the third, I think lighting would tie everything together - I don’t tend to use it myself, but I could… Originally Posted by jzucker
-
I notice that Jens does what the terribly serious monotone djent guy says to do as well.
tbh I’m kind of conflicted that YouTube has pushed me into the ‘tutorial’ zone. And yet this seems to be what the platform likes; it’s what commenters expect.
Thoughts on YouTube, acknowledging the fact that you have more subs than me anyway so what do I know…
- YouTube is primarily a platform for discussion, video essays and tutorial content.
- it’s a lot of work to do it even as badly as I do it
- it’s really changed in the past ten years.
- I know some fantastic musicians who go nowhere on YouTube. It doesn’t matter if you are playing with Ari Hoenig or whatever. No one cares. These days you have to learn the platform and put in the time.
- people can be really horrible in the comments. Often pro players even can be unprepared for the level of internet ‘discourse’ lol
- when it comes to clickbait titles there’s a trade off between how well you want a video to do, and how much crap you are prepared to take from random people. There’s a lot of angry people out there.
- sub 10k monetisation is pocket money
- people don’t want playing up front - they want to be told what the lesson will teach them in the first 10s, playing can come after that as an interlude
- there is a strong demand for what you and I would regard as really basic material. The majority of viewers on YouTube jazz guitar content watchers aren’t confident playing changes for example, let alone looking for advanced quartal concepts etc. Jens nails the tone and level of his vids. I think a lot of people who watch his stuff are more jazz-curious than self described jazz players.
- no one watches videos about time feel or sight reading. Unfortunately.
- I notice that Rotem Sivan who made some very good videos on more advanced jazz concepts has pivoted to general YouTube genres like ‘react’ and ‘five levels’ with general guitar (non jazz) content. I think he topped out with high level jazz stuff.
- YouTube is its own culture, full of genres of video, memes and semi-memes based around thumbnails etc. Jens uses this stuff..
- it helps to ground the video with a known face. Pat Metheny, Barry harris, whoever. Do a Barry video, double the views atm. It’s a trend.
- outside of jazz students and musicians with a jazz background, not that many people interested in jazz guitar actually know anything much about the contemporary jazz scene. I think these days it’s more my job introduce modern players to the audience than expect people to have heard of Lage Lund etc.
- music theory podcasts do better than playing. Gear videos too. Ikr?
- work out why you might want to do this deeply daft thing week in week out.
- every platform is it’s own genre. Instagram is a totally different thing. People watch playing on Insta, but it needs to be the right sort of playing. Anyway I know much less about Insta.
- title and thumbnail is as important as content and requires as much creativity and thought. A good video with a boring title and thumbnail goes nowhere.Last edited by Christian Miller; 08-15-2023 at 06:20 AM.
-
When it comes to tutorials, I prefer straight to point, no random chat, don't care about humor (unless it's really good) - not clicking for comedy.
Skip when: blabs a lot, makes stupid jokes, presents themself smarter than they are and tends to whine.
-
I'm a huge fan of Jens Larsen's channel. But I also regularly watch plenty of other channels with less fancy production values. For me, it doesn't matter too much, once I get to know the presenter and decide I like their content. (I actually find too many of those YouTube memes a little irritating, to be honest.)
It's interesting to look at Jens' earliest videos. Back then, the production values were lower, he comes off as a bit awkward and stiff, and the content was considerably more advanced. It's great to see how he's grown in confidence and popularity, and I'm sure it's no coincidence that most of his videos now cater to the beginner and intermediate jazz guitarists. There are just more of us out there than there are people able to benefit from more advanced stuff.
-
Exactly. So YouTube is for him a job. Part of his extended teaching practice (and obviously a shopfront for paid for lessons etc.) Originally Posted by CliffR
I know people seem to think youtube is some sort of grift, and I’ve even heard Jen’s name come up in this light but it’s nonsense. Good, concise videos take a lot of work to put together. And do these people think Jens would be voluntarily making his nth video on basic jazz voicings if he wasn’t taking it seriously as a gig?
People should give it a go to find out…
I’m … struggling .. with the whole thing tbh. I started YT with zero expectations and it would be great to recapture that state. I don’t want YT to be my job - it’s a notoriously unaccountable platform for a start. But if you have a regular upload schedule as I do, it can feel that way anyway. (The best way is to shoot a load of vids in one day and space them out.)
For now, I’ll continue to use it the way I do, and try not to get hung up about growing the channel. I love it that there’s a few people who get something from my content.
-
Hate his stuff or not, he has 50,000 subscribers and 16k views on that video so he's actually making money on his videos. But yeah, we appeal to a different demographic. I realize my photos are distracting but they are my artwork so I'm hesitant to give that up in order to not distract people but maybe I need to make a tough choice...
Originally Posted by Litterick
-
For me this is maybe not the right outlook.** Originally Posted by jzucker
Subjective might actually be the better way to look at this. What do you like about this video other than the metrics? What do you want to emulate? Anything?
I’m going to be blunt and say I don’t really love Jens’s content. I find it useful in some contexts, but it’s not really my cup of tea. I’m speaking purely subjectively, so that’s not to take away from what he’s doing, because there’s a lot of utility in it and a lot of people get something out of it. But it’s not really what I like watching — which would beg the question … should his be my model, simply because of the engagement? Or would I want to create something different enough from his that his model wouldn’t really apply?
So I think you might want to start from a different place. What are you hoping to make? What *kind* of engagement do you want long term? Students? Subscribers to a course? Just viewers and ad revenue? What’s the content you want to produce, and how do you see yourself producing it?
** No one knows me and no one should, so what the heck do I know.
-
All excellent points. I like Jen's stuff. My son was advising me to ditch my artwork behind me because he thought people would scroll past it but - damn - it's my artwork and inspiration. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
And, realistically - I'm never going to have 1,000,000 subscribers and 50k hits on a video. It's just not my demographic. I'd be happy if folks were interested in my lessons and it worked as a vehicle for people to study with me. So far, not much luck though.
-
Since the paintings are your work, you could make them more prominent in your videos — as a reflection of your personality and a bonus for the viewer. Originally Posted by jzucker
I suspect anyone who offers advanced tutorials will struggle to find an audience. Everybody seems to want easy fixes to common problems.
-
If the artwork is important, you just have to think outside the box. What if you’re in front of a white wall and hang a different photograph behind you each time? And it’s just there. You don’t comment or anything. But in the description you just say what it is and why you like it. For people who don’t care, it’s not overwhelming and demanding attention. For folks who do care, it becomes sort of a weird interesting Zucker Quirk. And it’s still a part of your process. Originally Posted by jzucker
I don’t know. There are ways to keep things that are important to you without sacrificing the experience for the viewer.
-
I think this is part of what Christian was driving at. If you really want to do the engagement things, half of it is science, and half of it is spaghetti against the wall.
-
i don't think it's half spaghetti. I think if you follow his guidelines, are young, attractive and are even a moderate player, you can be VERY successful. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
-
I would say it’s a good to find your own voice on YT. I don’t think it guarantees massive success but it will make it more rewarding and people like a personality. Hmmm, a bit like jazz?
-
Have you done a video about your artwork and how it inspires you?
-
Hmm maybe. Not sure though. To keep bringing it back to Jens, there are formulaic things he’s doing and doing well, and I’m sure that stuff is visible in his metrics. But he’s also very good at what he does. And I don’t mean playing the guitar. He’s very good at choosing content, at packaging the content in a coherent way, at curating it, etc. I also take for granted some times how funny he is, in his own way. So that’s all stuff that relies as much on a personal perspective and on the idiosyncrasies of one’s outlook. Originally Posted by jzucker
To your point, I do think all those things are more important than his skill as a player or how revolutionary the content itself is. But I think it’s easy to overlook how much skill and thought can go into things like that.
And again that’s coming from someone who doesn’t particularly love the content itself.
-
This is all not to say that you’re asking wrong questions or shouldn’t be doing this … but I think there’s something interesting and unique in the Sheets of Sound stuff and I’d be interested to see where someone gets with that? as a starting point.
-
I have absolutely no idea tbh. I’ve tried a lot of stuff to boost ratings, but ultimately I’m a middle aged schlub no one has heard of who makes extremely niche videos. What do I expect? Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I tried more polish and scripting and all that happened is my videos came out less often and less people watched my channel. my best performing videos are often those that take the least thought and effort. It’s easy to over think things.
Some of these channels; there are almost semi lifestyle channels. The Janek thing. I think young people are looking for role models or parasocial stuff even. Work out, practice, be your best self. I don’t appeal to that demographic by and large haha.
But there’s one guy with 213k subs who is in his 50s and delivers dry lectures on classical harmony in front of a whiteboard.
I enjoy that about YT
-
No but I should. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
I may be an exception but the very thing that YT'ers need to do ( keep releasing content) is the very thing that puts me off. I watched a Jens Larsen video about which first 5 solos to Transcribe. It was very good. I've taken it to heart and have completed one solo, completed two choruses of another ( for which there are six choruses altogether), am working on my speed to have any chance of keeping up with George Benson on another, etc. By the time I've completed the work outlined in this video Jens will have released about 52 more videos... It's just overwhelming. My instinct is to avoid such tsunamis. So I prefer books. My favourite all time YTer was/is a photographer who put out just a few brilliant videos a year. One could watch, learn, take on board some ideas, try them out, read a few of the recommended books or look up the recommended photographers and not feel rushed that within a few days there would be something else to focus on (excuse the pun). I doubt he made much money from YT though, so maybe not a very helpful answer.
-
My take on YouTube vids...
keep them short and focused
too much talking is the kiss of death.
Reply With Quote
Electrical buzzing advice sought please
Today, 02:35 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos