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hi everyone,
been a little while since ive been on the forum. i need some personal advice. yeah, i could go to a therapist, but i want to talk to my fellow musicians (besides, therapy has only been so helpful). im 36 years old, single, no wife or kids (responsibilities).
i've been playing guitar since i was 12 (1999). i think around the age of 13, i remember thinking 'i can do this', as in, 'i can do this professionally.'
by the time i graduated high school, i was outplaying my teachers...but, were they really even good? maybe not by todays standards. but i do know, that at least three or four high school teachers told me i should study music. i also had a chemistry teacher introduce me to pat metheny which really changed everything.
as an example of my ability around that time, here is a guitar solo i wrote on top of some very weird chords, in a weird tuning i came up with. this was something i recorded when i was 17, in 2005.
i think by today's standards, it may not be very good technically. but keep in mind this was before the age of youtube viral videos or all the ubiquitous music learning there is now. it was also all based off my ear knowledge - i knew 0 (absolutely 0) music theory at that time. if i had to analyze those chords now under, i probably could, but may be a waste of time.
anyway, after i graduated high school in 2005, i had a lot of pressure from my family to study medicine - like insane. and (maybe) the problem was, i was very good academically. i had a deep identity crisis that never really resolved. i would be in classes constantly thinking of music. i couldn't focus. eventually (its a long story), i went into psychology. things were not good at home. my father had passed a year before. i was a wreck emotionally, mentally, physically, and spiritually.
i ended up getting a degree in psychology, didnt want to be a counsellor, went into IT, and ive been working in IT for the last decade. i thought 'i need a profession that can pay the bills and allow me to work on my music in my spare time.' i was deeply fearful of 'failing', and more importantly, being broke. after all i already dropped out of a coveted science program to study 'arts' - which i never thought i'd do in a million years and my family thought i was crazy for.
when i had spare time, i would procrastinate like crazy. i think part of this is to do with too much computer time and bad perfectionism. don't get me wrong, i was constantly writing snippets on the guitar - searching for bandmates, playing in bands, writing songs. but it never really went anywhere. i developed a unique rock guitar style, but could never find a singer or etc.
i think in hindsight, i was too scared to fully gamble on myself. i remember so many times in my 20s thinking i should go to music school - just to be around other musicians and to get better.
a few years ago, i, by life circumstances, started singing, and i had an aha moment. i thought, 'maybe i dont need to keep hunting for others to do music with, i can do this all on my own.' so for the past few years ive been working (very, very sporadically) on an album.
thing is, my progress is so slow. i think a lot of it is because i have a full-time job in IT, so the screentime/sitting in a chair all day, becomes a bit much. i have seeked out advice, and of course everyone has a different opinion. but i know this forum has some really good players, and also, some very wise individuals.
i've been saving up money, that should (based on my rent amount right now), would allow me to quit for 2 years. now, if i work part-time, i won't have to dip into my savings (ideal). ill probably have to take a 'dead end job', but that is not the purpose here.
the purpose would be to able to focus my best hours of the day on working and finishing off my album, but also, going back to my love of transcribing guitar solos and guitar parts, i really want to see what i am capable of. is this crazy? i feel like this is my last chance, and im getting older. i feel like if im going to fail, it better happen ASAP.
i've blown 17 years of my life, doing stuff, that i didn't really want to be doing. now i can see in myself, even as writing this, that having not dedicated or committed myself to music whole-heartedly, has led me in directions i did not want to go - or directions that felt no sense of purpose.
im wondering if anyone else here has been through such a thing, and whether anyone has some advice. thank you. and apologies for the length.Last edited by jaguarguitar; 07-09-2023 at 07:08 PM.
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07-09-2023 06:06 PM
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Hi Jaguar,
Welcome back to the Forum!
I'm a musician and a psychologist (I think there are a few of us here!); although I don't really give advice to people, I guess I have some thoughts/questions ...
First, I'm just trying to understand your "question," so to speak: are you asking us if you should take two years off work in order to finish a solo album and transcribe some guitar parts ... with the intention of leaving your IT work and being a "full-time, professional musician?" Is that right? [And do you have any more recent recordings you can share with us?]
Thanks!
Marc
[there's always the "rich and famous contract!"]
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hi Marc!
Originally Posted by marcwhy
Hi Jaguar,
Welcome back to the Forum!
I'm a musician and a psychologist (I think there are a few of us here!); although I don't really give advice to people, I guess I have some thoughts/questions ...
First, I'm just trying to understand your "question," so to speak: are you asking us if you should take two years off work in order to finish a solo album and transcribe some guitar parts ... with the intention of leaving your IT work and being a "full-time, professional musician?" Is that right? [And do you have any more recent recordings you can share with us?]
Thanks!
Marc
[there's always the "rich and famous contract!"]
nice to meet you - interesting (and LOL to that Muppet video if only it was that easy lol!).
i actually kind of came full circle regarding psychology and was thinking about doing an MA in counselling (i think that would be more fulfilling than my current day job, but thats another story...dont want to chase another mountain top at this time).
thanks for reading my post. i think, its such a big decision, i really want other people's perspectives on it. i.e. if they've ever left a dayjob to focus on their 'craft' etc. i think i read about a famous player (was it w. marsalis?) that even quit playing music just to focus on improving his playing.
more concrete questions i guess:
- is it worth taking time off to do a project like this, and if anyone has done it - was it worth it?
- music school vs working on my own music. sometimes i go back and forth in my mind about going to music school, vs just working creatively on my own music. i want to do both, but music school is expensive and the time + money - wonder if thats better to just hone in on my own music, and fill in missing pieces with private lessons.
- just really want other perspectives on it (and actually, im glad you asked for more recent recordings). i think part of my weakness is to work on my self-discipline in the evenings to work on my music (like wes montgomery did). i think the issue i have in this situation is the amount of screentime - im doing this stuff on my own, not working with other musicians. i prefer it this way but it comes at a cost at tons of screen time and stress.
to be honest, i dont even care about making money at it this point (i havent so far!), i really just want more time for myself to focus on finishing the album to the best of my ability... i want to leave something behind, i dont know how to explain that.
the other thing is, i want to get really good on guitar. i dont feel im good enough, but sometimes, i think im okay...for the kind of music i make. but other times i want to get really good. but i think the 'getting good' is almost secondary to finishing the album stuff, because im good enough, for that stuff im writing currently. but if i got better, i think future songs could be better/more creative.
im afraid to share the first song i've been toiling over on and off, the last year. its almost done from a recording standpoint, but i need to re-cut the vocals (im taking vocal lessons) - needs a few harmonies, my voice in the cut below is pretty bad too. also an earlier version of this was much better-ly mixed, so i will do that at the end. but you can get an idea, i did everything you here:
but i would say, its not even the 'best' song of mine, i have other better tunes , i think the one above came out quite 80s which wasn't my intention, it just did though. here's some other samples of other songs im planning (procrastinating) to finish off - i think i have over 250 things on my hard drive that could be turned into full songs.
- fairly old but still something i will use.
- this one, im cutting out the first 30 seconds. i also wrote two other guitar parts, which makes it much better, and i have the lyrics partially done.
i know these are more 'rock' or 'indie rock'? - but i even have one song that is full on bossa nova. i have a scratch recording of it, but im scared to upload it because its a poor recording.
other thing is, i did the drums and other stuff - but i think for future songs, id outsource the drums. i programmed them to a T, but it was very painful to do this. i hope that makes sense, Marc!
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I have a full time job, 2 kids (5 and 7) and I’m married. 8-9pm is generally my concentration time. I go out to jams when I can, sometimes it’s 3x a week, sometimes it’s once in a blue moon. I don’t drink so I can be out at midnight and still be up to let the chickens out of the coop at sunrise, oh yeah, I also live on a hobby farm.
My point is, if you want to make it happen you’ll make it happen. Wes Montgomery never quit his job.
The tunes are cool, don’t be so embarrassed about them. Be more positive when you present them, the way you’re doing it now, you’re setting yourself up for criticism. And not the thoughtful constructive kind.
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hi Allan,
thanks for your feedback, i will try to be more positive, but its kind of hard because they aren't where i want them to be, yet, anyway. im probably my own worst critic, but also, im open to criticism. id rather release nothing, than to release garbage. i suppose, i can only do what i can do at the end of the day.
you know, i thought that about Wes as well - he never quit his job, plus he had a wife and kids (responsibility!). but i feel that was a more fun time to make music - playing clubs with friends and family.
i have 0 music connections and i dont even know how to go about doing that. unless i put a band together or something. part of my goal with finishing this album was that i thought, if the tunes are good enough, it might 'entice' someone to want to work with me further.
but something else i was thinking too...was Wes ever really intending to get 'big'? or was he just enjoying learning and playing so much, and that was his only focus - and the success was a mere byproduct/fluke? do you know what i mean?
all of wes jobs from what i read were physical labour of some sort. ive had labour type jobs before, its a catch 22. you feel really tired at the end of the day, but also that you actually did something. now days after work, i did something, but it was all mental work.
maybe these are just excuses. as you said, it i really want it to happen, ill find a way, right?
i think part of my conundrum or issue (or 1st world problem) is i make music at the same desk, i work at - in my living room. i think that is really affecting my productivity. trying to figure out if there is a better solution. i wish i could afford a bigger place, but rent is stupid expensive where i live.
i fear im making more excuses anyway. thanks for your input.
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I haven't listened to your music yet, but I will say: don't quit your day job! The economic situation is dire all over the world. You are going to want that salary coming in every month.
Also, if you quit your job, are you going to have the motivation to finish your record? And if you finish it, is anybody going to want to buy it? Are people even buying records nowadays, or just clicking on viral videos?
I'm sure you can finish your record on your evenings and weekends. And since you are at it and don't have responsibilities, I would recommend getting a teacher. You are at an age where you are mature enough to be able to take full advantage of lessons. Not like when I took lessons in my teens -- my teacher wanted to lay the modal on me while I just wanted to ROCK OUT!!!
And since you are asking for life advice: hit the gym. And get yourself a nice girl.
All the best, we are pulling for you!!!!!
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thanks howzabopping! yeah, i do exercise quite a bit. finding a nice girl in 2023, well, thats a little trickier
and yeah, ive been thinking about what you said regarding the economic situation. and once album is done, still takes time + money to promote.
yeah, i am looking for a teacher locally actually. ive been on truefire on and off - its good.
i think, i need to be more disciplined about how i spend my free time, its the only way.
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My life -in music and work- resembles much of yours. I believed from a young age I was "put here" to play music, professionally. I might have been, I'll never know now that's for sure. I can't give you specific advise on what I think you should do, but as I read your post, and reflected back on my life, a few thoughts came up...
Is 36 too late? It's never too late to follow a passion. However, your "fear of being broke" is your achilles heal. The professional musicians who made it did not worry about "being broke". They continued following their passion because they simply couldn't do anything else. If I had it to do all over again, I would likely have moved to Nashville in my mid 20's and made a real go of it. In my case, I did not, because I had already met the woman I was to marry, and she never would have followed me. I do not regret that decision. But if I had been "single, no kids", I would have gone. And been broke. For a long time, no doubt.
You're either ALL IN, or you're out (a hobbyist). There really is no in-between. And if you're all in, you will likely be jumping out of the airplane hoping the parachute opens. But the catch is- you don't care: you're jumping, regardless. Without that kind of wanton passion and confidence, it is my belief you (this is the general, "everyone" you) will not succeed. You have to be prepared to burn bridges, lose touch with your former life, and be "poor", quite possibly forever.
Now, all that being said- the big question is "do you need MUSIC, to save your life?"
I thought I did. Then at about 26-28, I dropped out of "trying to make it", married the woman I loved, and started building a life together. Can't do both. Had to choose. I decided I "didn't need music to save my life", and actually wrote myself a letter with that title. Several years passed (8 maybe?), and I had been so busy with "building the new life" (which included a job I was not fond of, but I was grateful to have a job) that the passion for music (playing it, not listening to it- I ALWAYS was a fan) died down. But it did resurface, in a huge way. Turns out I DID need music to "save my life", just not in the way I thought I did.
Playing music, creating music, IS one of my inherent purposes. Selling that music to others in exchange for a living is not. I don't regret not chasing the dream, because then I would not have the wonderful souls I have in my life now. But there will always be a part of me that wonders "what if..." Maybe I'll find out in the next life.
Rather than my music being directed outwards (being a "professional"), it has been directed inwards... it's more of a therapy, joy, meditation for me. It is an emotional outlet, and I am in a fun cover band with friends, we have a great time, something else I am grateful for.
The 2 things that really stick in my mind are:
1) if you were really meant to do this thing, you would have been DOING IT already, come hell or high water, damn the torpedoes! (so perhaps your subconscious is trying to tell you something)
2) you obviously need to still find joy in the music that you so love; you might have to redefine what that joy actually is.
Going any deeper than that, we really enter the realm of philosophy; happiness, contentment, living in the moment, gratefulness, etc.
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Another thing: you dont need to be the greatest guitarist in the world to make good music. I'm listening to "date i share this" at the moment and it is a good, albeit a bit old-fashioned song. If you want to go into that direction, remember that songwriting and producing are also skills that need to be honed, and that most great instrumentalists were / are not great songwriters and vice versa.
Re what Ruger said: He's got a great point, but remember there is a wide range between "mere hobbyist" and "all-out artist". You can play at a professional level without pursuing an all-consuming artistic desire. Lots of wedding musicians, studio musicians and sidemen do so and make a living from it. Why not get out and start something, and see where it leads you? Maybe that would take the edge off your anxiety.
To put it bluntly: if your artistic desire were all-consuming, it would consume all other pursuits. Since it isn't, it's probably better to define a realistic goal and then pursue it, like record an album's worth of tunes and bring them out on Bandcamp; or find a band to play your compositions; or become the world's fastest guitar player, or whatever floats your boat. However, since you write that you can't even decide which kind of music to focus on, I feel you should not give up your day job until you found the one thing that is really worth pursuing, if only for the next couple of months.
Finally, I've been there, too. I hang out on this forum and can play jazz well enough to impress non-jazzers, but I can do the same with fingerstyle and classical guitar. I'm 57 now and still working to get a thing together that combines my skills and interests and is worth listening to. At least, I have a feeling that I roughly know what I can do and what I can't. Now, to find the time...
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I've done manual labor jobs, you have a romanticized idea of what it is. It's easier doing computer work, trust me. Originally Posted by jaguarguitar
But I do have a follow up question, where do you live and what are your actual goals? You don't even need a song to post a craigslist ad so you are ahead there. Put your tune on soundcloud and put the link in your ad, if anyone likes it they'll contact you. You could also try going to local jam nights if you have them. Keep jam night simple, you'll find people as talented as yourself and others who just bought a bass. In my area jam nights are for meeting people and socializing, not a cutting session, or competition. Your area might be different.
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Well, I got bad news for you, i like all the clips you posted, so that probably means there's no market for this music
Joking aside, I would not quit your day job unless you're sure going back will be a certain thing.
I also think your guitar skills are fine for the music you're making, more than adequate. So I think you need to fine tune your goals before embarking on this journey.
Also, I wonder if maybe you have too much free time already? I'm a teacher, and I remember my summers before I was married with kids...the freedom was maddening.
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No one ever knows what another person should do…. sometimes with extremes we might have an insight. (Of course we should create just societal structures. I not holding my breath for that though).
I do think that there is a truth in the idea that if you have to do something, then you do it no matter what.
Even through abject poverty, I kept working on music as my primary focus. Even after I lost my ability to play guitar, I keep working on music as my primary focus. Even through an emotional abusive relationship, I keep working on music as my primary focus.
I did stop at one point. My CTS was so frustrating that I just started to do art. I worked at that in the same way as music.
I did end up back with music. I can not remember what shifted me back.
Why do I have to do this… F’ if I know why.
I have made so little money.
Then again money certainly does not bring happiness. Status is so inane. People with money (and even with high status positions) can be so limited in their world view, and so unable to have empathy.
Their are so many more things in life that are important then work, class, and money.
However I have almost always had low hours, and low pay employment. I would hate to only have fellow musicians as my peer group. So many are so insular in their outlook. Better to have a job, where I can talk to normal people. Maybe, the jobs I have had included more interesting peers… now I am rambling.
Everyone has their own path… good, bad, or ugly. Who knows.
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You have to learn to love cold food, late nights, long drives, bad hours, unappreciative crowds, and bad pay. Once you have a handle on those things we can discuss the negative side of pursuing a career in music.
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I gave it a go in my early 20s, was a work-a-day musician hustling a passable living playing in a wedding band, doing club dates, big band gigs, and teaching, and had a small studio to record music, originals with a singer and a couple of projects with independent filmmakers.
By my early 30s realized the lifestyle wasn’t for me. Sold all my gear to raise some funds and spent many years traveling and studying, eventually marrying and settling down.
Picked up the guitar again, got me more gear, and enjoy playing at jam sessions.
Now 60, no regrets, but also no advice, except maybe to follow your heart.
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I'm listening to Dare I Share This at the moment, I really like it. I think you are not a guitarist but rather a guitarist/songwriter.
I need shelter, and food, and want friends, a wife, financial security, and to play music (and I'm probably forgetting some things). That's what makes me happy. As far as music goes, I get the most enjoyment from writing, producing, and recording songs. Musically I identify as a songwriter. Financially, I had a career that wasn't music. I'm retired and waste a lot of time which I think is a problem. I'm 65 and life is pretty good.
My work life was fine, but it was just for the money. I find happiness elsewhere.
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I did struggle playing music for a few years and I can relate to what you wrote. I didn't love "cold food, late nights, long drives, bad hours, unappreciative crowds, and bad pay". There are much easier ways to make a living. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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"I've done manual labor jobs, you have a romanticized idea of what it is. It's easier doing computer work, trust me.
But I do have a follow up question, where do you live and what are your actual goals? You don't even need a song to post a craigslist ad so you are ahead there. Put your tune on soundcloud and put the link in your ad, if anyone likes it they'll contact you. You could also try going to local jam nights if you have them. Keep jam night simple, you'll find people as talented as yourself and others who just bought a bass. In my area jam nights are for meeting people and socializing, not a cutting session, or competition. Your area might be different."
thanks for replying. ill keep in mind what you said about local jam night. specificaly the socializing minus competition part you mention...it might help.
i have done physical labour jobs before as well - but depends how physical we are talking i.e. landscaping vs cargo handling at an airport. ive done both.
to be honest, i think i preferred the cargo handling over the desk work. computer work (im in IT specifically) isn't easy. putting out fires, configuring stuff, looking at lines of code, project deadlines, its a different kind of fatigue. the biggest thing is the screen time for me. i suffer from a rare form of visual migraine where i lose my vision, and a big trigger is copious amounts of screen time. i have some things in place to mitigate, but its aa definite trigger. it might be why i hate working in IT now. i need to change something there.
i live in Canada, Vancouver. its so damn expensive here - which is part of why i feel kind of stuck in IT. i've looked at moving to a cheaper place, the only place really is Alberta....Prince Edward Island, but its so far from my family, i just have my mom and two brothers. i lived in Toronto before that - i was in some bands there, but it never really went anywhere. but i wish i made better use when I was in Toronto - i found a barry harris study group - then the pandemic happened, and i moved back to Vancouver.
i did the craigslist thing from the age of 19 to 28, im done with jamming with flaky musicians, playing pay to play, i just dont want to do it anymore. craigslist could be useful in the future - but only i think, after im done recording like 10 songs 'professionally' and a decent portfolio to show, if that makes sense. im not averse to jamming, i just want to be focused. i feel like the musicians i met never have the same drive as i do.
what i DO want to do is:
1 - record albums and make my own original music i am proud of. i dont want to gig that music until i feel really capable with my voice (or a singer likes it enough that they'd want to sing it). i have a hard time listening to my voice.
2 - i dont know if something like this exists, but it would be nice to 'apprentice' with better players? i think thats part of how Benson got so good (nevermind he was a freak anyway)... find some people that maybe play in cafes (i know one place in particular) - its like an upscale restaurant and they play jazz tunes. even if i could sit in with them and play rhythm just to get a feel, and build up from there, i think that is probably the best way to improve. but playing with people that are much better from a guitar standpoint.
3 - kind of related to #2, but become a better guitarist. i dont know how to improvise, i know things more intuitively on guitar but i really suck. i really just want to get better as a musician. ive transcribed some Metheny stuff, but i really want to do more of it.
sometimes i want to learn drums, play keyboards...i kind futz around my way, i wouldn't call it playing) and sing much better, so its kind of hard to just narrow to 1 specific thing...
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Being obsessed about a dream can be annoying. Yet it can be fun.. so, there's a balance.
Is it healthy and worth it? Is it something that is unique in some way? <-- imho, this is the key
of a healthy long-term obsession for artsy people (all kinds). That's how some people
can follow the strange path of creating stuff without caring too much about... buying a new car
every 5 years or something. Or having enough money to pay rent every month. Or eat meat every
day. Just got to find the proper balance so the life would generally feel good.
Anyway. I found that when waking up 8 hours before work, I can put those fresh hours
on my own stuff(the music obsession) and go to work happy cuz my own thing is done.
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I'd recommend trying to free up more time for yourself, but not quitting day work completely. It sounds like you definitely have music to offer. But even if you didn't have music good enough to offer, I think it's still worth it if you really want to pursue music at a higher level. Music is very important to me and I'm just a hobbyist. But yeah it seems like music is important to you so I think you should try to make more time for it. Just don't quit work completely and piss away your savings. Maybe it will be possible for you to make money at music. Last piece of advice is look into investing as a way to passively grow your wealth since you have savings.
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everyone here has written such useful wonderful comments, THANK YOU. i will respond to these all shortly...
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Having read and listened (carefully and sympathetically), I'm replying because I like what I've heard, I feel for the OP, and I wish to see him persevere, prosper and prevail.
I believe that being prepared/ready is vital, because it enables us to navigate a safe path in our relationship to matters tangential to music - including money.
I also believe that misunderstanding is inevitable, and I'm planning my route and proceeding on tip-toe:
Step 1. reduce my own story to one word
Step 2. expand a little on my story
Step 3. convey advice by repeating other people's words and ideas
(I'll post this comment now, and I'll go through those steps in an edit later today.)
Edit:
Step 1: Bliss.
Step 2: I remember distinctly the moment when it first dawned on me that I didn't know the difference between what I wanted and what I needed. Admittedly, the idea of discovery and adventure (and what Keats called 'negative capability') appeal to me, but the idea of living in a garret definitely does not. On the other hand, living in the Mediterranean elegance of a Spanish slow city is my cup of tea, and so is gigging twice a week playing music I love with people whose company I treasure. Is that bliss? Not at all.
'Bliss' is my domestic life - and it's what makes me dare to say 'no' to (what I'll call) clowns in the 'music business'.
I find that well-paid gigs exist, but I'm very boundaried now. I always do my best to provide a professional service at events and functions. I don't hustle gigs, but I do get called. I suppose I've made some good connections.
I certainly don't consider myself an 'artist', but - while I do understand that I get booked as entertainment - neither do I think of myself as an 'entertainer'.
By contrast, I think the OP is an artist.
Step 3:
a. "Muddy water. Let settle. Becomes clear." (Lao Tzu)
b. A man cries out to G-d, "I've got no life. Only drudgery and a miserable existence. Look - I only have $20 in my pocket." G-d replies, "You've got $20? Give me the $20 and I'll give you a life."
So the guy hands over the $20 and says, "Now I won't have money to put gas in the car." G-d replies, "You've got a car? Give me the car and the $20, and I'll give you a life."
So the guy hands over the car and says, "Now I won't be able to get to work." G-d replies, "You've got a job? Give me the job, the car and the $20, and I'll give you a life."
So the guy hands over the job and says, "Now I won't be able to pay the mortgage." G-d replies, "You've got a house? Give me the house, the job, the car and the $20, and I'll give you a life."
So the guy hands over the house and says, "Now I won't have a home for my family." G-d replies, "You've got a family? Give me your family, the house, the job, the car and the $20, and I'll give you a life."
So the guy hands over his family...
G-d replies, "Here's a family, a house, a job, a car and $20 - and here's your life." (Rabbi Manis Friedman)
c. A woman is cheated on by her husband. She's devastated. She hears that there's a wise monk who lives high up on a mountain. She decides to consult him.
After a few days' travelling, she meets the wise monk. "I spent my whole life with him, my youth was dedicated to taking care of him. And now he has left me for another woman. I don't know what to do."
The monk gives her a cookie and asks her to eat it. After she finishes eating, he asks, "Was the cookie delicious?"
"Yes," she answers.
"Do you want another one?"
"Sure".
The monk looks her in the eye and says, "Do you see the problem now?"
The woman thinks for a while, and then slowly begins to speak. "I guess human nature is greedy. You get one, then you want more, maybe a new one, a bigger one. It's never enough. And nothing lasts forever. Everything is finite. We should be aware of this and not be disappointed."
The monk shakes his head. "No. I mean you eat too many biscuits." (My mate Dave)
Take action. Godspeed.Last edited by DestinyT; 07-11-2023 at 10:42 AM.
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Interesting thread with some sound advice.
As a lifelong music student and guitar lover, I struggled with the intense desire to become the next EVH, SRV or RF, but perservered through 3 plus decades of a career in an industry that could only be more removed from music by leaving the planet. It was only a means to an end. Retirement has allowed me to pursue my dream of being a master guitarist, which so far is still just a dream. But I am working on it harder than ever before!
During my working years, there were 1000's of hours of practice and rehearsals, 1000's of miles, 100's of bar gigs, in fun bands. I soooo wanted to quit the job and study and play full time. But it was only a fantasy. Common sense prevailed and through gritted teeth, I rode it out to the end.
It's a tired cliche but those working years passed in a blink, even though sometimes it seemed the torment would never end. But it was just a job that bought me the freedom to live on my own terms.
What I did come to realize is that my dream had no end date. But the job did.
Someone recently shared this link with me. Funny and true! Security and the chance to pursure your dreams is all anyone needs.
OP, good luck with your dreams. Just be aware it doesn't have to be an either/or choice. I'm off to practice. Have a gig next Sat nite.
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I also suffer from aural migraines. I have screen limiting apps on my phone and basically shut off my computer after work and don't come back. For me music is something that happens away from screens. Originally Posted by jaguarguitar
Anyway, your goal list.
1. Get 1 song done and then start looking for a group. The song will be a demo in the end and the band will sound nothing like it, so don't worry about perfection. Don't worry about your voice, you'll have to learn how to sing with a band after you learn how to sing in your room so you might as well learn both at the same time.
2. Go to jams and find people to pick up sideman gigs with. Get a facebook account and search out blues and jazz jams. Horn players show up to blues jams.
3. This will come by going to jams and hopefully getting some paying gigs.
Also, some real talk. You are in your 30's. You aren't going to find peers ready to go all in practicing twice a week and gigging Tuesday nights. If you go looking for people with open availability you are going to be inundated by flakes, blowhards, alcoholics, drug addicts who can't play a note until they get high and then can't think of anything to play because they got too high... you get my point. It's tough, but you can find people if you don't quit.
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It has already been said, but to pile on:
Filmmaking is not the same as the movie business.
Painting is not the same as showing.
Making art is not the same as the business of art.
Be wary of taking your passion and turning into your job. Particularly when the job pays very little, opportunities are near non-existent, and you are going to be putting yourself at the wrong end of a very unbalance power dynamic.
Want to take two years of “me” time to explore your personal passion? If you think you can swing it, why not?
COVID was that for me. I wrote a novel, studied Barry Harris, and spent every day with my daughter. Wonderful! Irreplaceable. A true gift. But don’t confuse that with trying to make a living in the music industry.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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hello everyone,
i wanted to make sure i wrote to everyone's comments, and i was a little swamped the past two weeks. the GOOD news is i basically, finally, finished the damn song.
the version i posted was close, but there were a few guitar parts missing towards the end, i finally sat down and did it on the weekend. i feel a big sense of relief. i have literally procrastinated that sh** for what...almost a year, i can't believe it. and it was about 45 seconds worth of music. insanity.
theres STILL a few things left to do, so technically its not done, but it basically is..if that makes sense.
a couple vocal overdubs, and recutting the vocals in some months need to be re-done, but im not worried about that because its just a re-do no more 'composition' or writing...but the stressful part of the guitar work is over with. and you know, its not so bad.
i built this up in my mind that i couldnt do it because i wanted to make it perfect...but i can only do my best.
i think, i have a love/hate relationship with daws. but literally, whats so hard about it? you literally just select the loop, record, and let it loop record. not hard. but i think its getting the 'right ideas', thats the part i didnt want to **** up. the actual music...sitting in my bed feeling nothing is good enough...cognitive distortion!
im not sure if it helped but i started doing EFT tapping. the day i did the recording (this past saturday), the hours before i was very stressed about some situation at work, and i was overthinking A LOT as usual, into a frenzy...so i did some EFT tapping, im not sure if that worked but i realized that i was blowing so much energy on things i dont even care about, or even matter in my life. none of that sh** matters to me. the only damn thing i care about is music. my whole world revolves around it. im not sure if that is healthy.
all this wasted energy could just go to being frustrated with music. if im going to be frustrated with something, might as be the work into something i care about. that is a good frustration to deal with, something you care about. another thing is ive been reading this book the war of art, and the ideas and concepts are in the back of my mind, and it helps. i told myself i just need to work on it - it doesnt matter if it takes 1000 takes or 10 takes but i dont need to care about the 'end result' just engage in the process, and whatever will come, will come, and whats needed will show itself with effort.
regarding the comments everyone made, there were so many, i couldnt keep up in terms of getting to them all.
i dont have a smartphone so it takes some time. sorry.
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howzabopping: "dont quit your day job!"
i thought ALOT about what you said this past 2 weeks. the past decade I've work in IT, in a boom economy. i havent worked through a recession. i have a govt job, which has its own issues (red tape and cranky gov't workers).
BUT, i had tried looking for another job the past couple months because things got toxic at work,
and its the first time i have a bit of trouble getting call backs. coupled with what you said, now is not
a good time to ditch, anyway.
the other thing is, i DO HAVE TIME. i SQUANDER IT. before/if i quit, i am going to do my damndest to GET DISCIPLINED. this is the only shi* that matters. i should focus all my other waking hours on music, or at least consistently. even 2 hours a day consistently would pay dividends. consistency.
howzabopping: "are people even buying records, viral videos"
you are right, right now though, i don't care too much about all that. i just want to make music i am proud of that is tasteful, and good. i can worry about the marketing stuff later, but i have to happy with my 'product.'
howzabopping: "find a nice girl"
you know, i watched this documentary about prince with his first producer chris moon. basically, he said he kind of wished he had prince meet a nice girl instead of getting the fame and success, because Prince was never happy even when he became 'successful' he was still damn lonely. and then you know what?
i watched ANOTHER video regarding Vanilla Ice. we all know the story. you know what brought him out of the gutter? a nice woman and having some kids.
it makes me wonder...what is more rewarding? pursuit to the death of an ambitious goal, or just having a family? it keeps coming up in my life recently...my best friend keeps saying that to me, the people around me...is it wrong im not doing that? im worried having a family would distract me from my selfish pursuits...
here are the two documentaries (they are short) in case you are interested:
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ruger9:
"professional musicians who made it did not worry about "being broke"
agreed. im planning to take keys, drums, singing lessons for the next year. i think if you become more confidence from competence its easier to take risks.
"You're either ALL IN, or you're out (a hobbyist). There really is no in-between."
i sort of agree with this. the thing is, i dont want to be a hobbyist. whenever people tell me 'yeah thats a good hobby' in my heart and mind is 'this is NOT just a hobby this is everything to me.' I think you can go all-in but still have a day job - but day job has to be something not all consuming... Wes Montgomery did this (worked during day, played at night). but he wasn't working some white-collar high powered' job, just anything to put food on the table, me think.
""do you need MUSIC, to save your life?""
i dont need it to save my life? i dont know, its all i know so i cant conceive of life without it. i think without music for me, there is nothing...actually, now that you say that, i think i need it to save my life.
part of the reason i started singing so late in life (30), was because i never felt i had a voice. i went through a mental health episode some years ago (when i was 30), and one time instead of just noodling on the guitar, i started singing, and it just came naturally without force...it was very therapeutic for me. i find being creative helps me deal with my emotions. sometimes it can
be emotional, but im old enough now to know when to take a break. its a tightrope.
"married the woman I loved, and started building a life together"
I keep thinking of Wes man. he had what, 5, 6 kids? i think you can still do both, its just harder. eventually it took a toll on Wes' health though...
"1) if you were really meant to do this thing, you would have been DOING IT already, come hell or high water, damn the torpedoes! (so perhaps your subconscious is trying to tell you something)"
i thought of this as well, but i have to believe its still possible. i think my subconscious is just trying to help me break free from all the programming.
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docsteve
thank for your comment and for listening.
no desire to be a wedding musician, but studio musician is enticing but i've heard thats hard to do even now days. good point.
"since you write that you can't even decide which kind of music to focus on"
i dont think i said that? i think i meant that i just write songs in different genres, its just how it comes out (i.e. rock, bossa nova or the like).
you know actually, i think its consumming enough that it makes me depressed not being able to do it because of trying to 'pay the rent' or being overly concerned about that. maybe thats an excuse. maybe its worth just taking some job as a waiter and focusing on music during the day or something, i mean i could do it for a couple years and i could always go back to IT, i have a skill at least.
thanks for your comments.
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mr.beaumont
thanks for your comment. its okay if theres no market for it, i just want to make music im proud of that will outlast me. so i dont give a shi* (well thats partially a lie), i mean i am writing some semblance of pop, not math rock, so obviously i take what a listener would think, into mind...but, overall, i wouldnt want to denigrate the music for sake of pop appeal, if that makes sense (sorry no twerking rock here...wait...twerking rock. that could be IT!)
regarding free time, i think yes and no. between full time work, taking care of my cats, music, boxing, running...i dont know man, i feel like my hands are full. but the only thing is, i dont have a sense of discipline...as much as i need anyway.
i wish sometimes i could afford my house but everything here is so expensive. last week, my mom left the house to visit my brother, so the house was empty with just me (i rent the ground level from her). you know what i started immediately thinking? how can i turn this place into a studio..i'd put a drum kit here...leave the mics over there, always ready to go...etc....i digress...
i think more than anything i just blow too much time on youtube, procrastinating...but its getting better...sort of.
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st.bede
good points. i think even for me i never stopped doing it, ive had every reason to quit. either i was in bands, or listening to music every day, thinking about music, but really just procrastinating my own music if that makes sense...maybe putting too much pressure on myself to do something 'great.'. that desire to be good...
i have made 0 money from music. well except that one high school show....but yeah. hah.
thanks for your perspective.
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dawgbone
i dont care for cold food and late nights without a product i believe, which is what im working on. if i showed a bunch of songs to some friends and they wanted to dog it out playing stages across the country, maybe im crazy enough i'd do it. but im not at that stage yet...and i think now to promote music, you can do a lot online.
have anyone here heard of seasick steve? man, that guy is impressive and he must be in his 60s. and he does all analog recording i believe.
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jazzpadd
thanks for the advice and encouragement
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fep:
yeah i think that makes sense, perhaps more songwriter/guitarist than purely guitarist. i played/sequenced all the instruments in that song so i guess that makes sense.
its a tough thing and theres no one right way. i think as humans we always see the grass as greener on the other side.
pro musician: i want a regular job that just pays the bills and doesnt consume me and do my art the way i want it
hobby musician w/ day job: i wish i could be a pro musician
enlightenend individual: im thankful for what i have???
you can still develop discipline and spend time on things you care about. we all dont kno how much time we have left on Earth...
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emanresu
its good advice, i think similar to tim ferris 4 hour workweek? i gotta ditch IT somehow man. if i was to work in a DAW for 4 hours before going to my actual IT job, i will barely be able to focus on my work
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Jimmy Smith
yes. i might need another job of some sort...something not so consumming mentally. thanks for saying that. thanks again.
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DestinyT
thanks a lot. i googled negative capability, it makes sense. when you called me an 'artist' that felt good, haha...but i feel like a bit of an imposter at this point. what true artist has no body of work...but i promised that is going to change.
you gave awesome advice in part 3. if i understood correctly, we already have everything we need. right?
the monk story, i get it. you know even money wise, i have enough if i was to leave now and just focus on music for a bit. it wouldnt be wise, but theres this gnawing feeling in the back of my head...what if i had 6 months to live? is this how i would be living it? doing some job i dont care about for money i dont even use? maybe this is the mindset of a selfish person. i have everything that i need...right?
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guitlifer
i feel you man, i understand exactly what you feel. the crazy thing is i wonder if the very iconic nature of the music biz has bred a generation musicians that dont feel good enough because they diddnt get the genetic luck and lottery that EVH or whoever else had.
i think my geneartion (late 80s) do have a bit of a complex. when i look at my brothers (70s generation), they seem to just be happy go lucky, focused on conventional collared jobs (whether white or blue). my generation seems to tend towards not feeling like we 'made it' whatever that means...entitlement perhaps? i dont know.
its interesting to see how you feel having 'gritted teeth.' i feel like im gritting teeth in my job, especially when its stressful. not to mention dealing with aholes in the office, of which there are plenty...not that the music biz is better or anything. maybe im just being unrealistic as you said 'a fantasy'. again, comes back at looking at our 'heros' whose own lives in fact, were often in shambles.
which brings me full circle to the vanilla ice and prince story. what is it about having a family that stabilizes a man? a sense of purpose? you know, again, Wes had that down before becoming 'big' i bet he didnt even care about being 'successful'? he just enjoyed playing, im going to guess. he dedicated himself.
thanks for your input, hope your gig went well.
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AllanAllen
yeah, im trying to figure out if i should record on RTR but its madness based on the music im doing. i mean its possible but id have to look at getting hardware...i dont know enough about sequencers and smpte to mess with that right now...
- 1 song done (basically)...good idea.
- 2 i think this is a good idea. i will try that.
- 3 yes
i wont quit. too late to quit...this is my mission.
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rlrhett
i dont think im looking to turn my passion into my job? i dont know its hard to say. i really just want to make music i feel proud of and have people listen to it. im not too concerned if its in my life time, or later.
has anyone heard of babik reinhardt? django's grandson or son, i believe. anyway, this masterpiece...and it has what, 1000 views. i dont believe its a well known song.
but its a masterpiece in my opinion... this is what i want to do - not necessarily that style i mean, but this kind of commitment.
you are right about 'living' in the music industry. its a trap...you're right. thank your for your input.
in a way, maybe ive got it made? i could do IT contracts 6 months - a year at a time, and take a year off work on music, something
like this. at least until i need to 'settle down'.
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