Does anybody really play bebop these days?

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Is there any jazz club where musicians only play be-bop?

Depends on how many drinks it sells, but I’m guessing probably not

[thelostboss]

You need the right gear to play bebop.

Attachment 101238

AAAhhhh . . . . . . you mean a Saxophone?!?!

[AaronMColeman]

And I'm sure you all drink sparkling wine unless it comes from a specific region in France?

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

And I'm sure you all drink sparkling wine unless it comes from a specific region in France?

Nope, both France and Cali for moi. Cali is improving.

[sgcim]

does Django have anything to do with be-bop?

Not rhythmically.

[rpjazzguitar]

Anytime there isn't a standardized definition of a term, the thread lengthens.

I've never heard anybody say "let's play a bebop tune". I have heard "bop tune".

On those rare occasions I hear the word "bebop" it refers to the music made in that era.

Every jazz player I know has played bop tunes. In fact, most seem to be able to play Donna Lee at the drop of a hat. Not a joke.

The music is descended from the bebop guys.

Is it bebop? Give me an agreed-upon definition of the word.

[ragman1]

most seem to be able to play Donna Lee at the drop of a hat. Not a joke.

It is when I do it

[lawson-stone]

It is when I do it

I'm pioneering the "Donna Lee as a Bossa Ballad" approach to the tune

[st.bede]

Music itself is constantly changing. Inherent is the fact that no two performances are exactly the same, of any piece of music. That inherency is so profoundly enmeshed in the art form itself, as to make a definitional aspect. (That sounds like a circular argument. I have to think about that). I would argue, due to that quality, the argument for bebop as fixed in a historical moment is problematic.

If you need, I can come up with a counter argument. I would probably employ notions of phenomenology, negation of negation (thesis, anti-thesie, synthesis… I thought that might work above but it seemed problematic), and zeitgeist…

(a lot of this has been already said… but I paid so much to be able to use these words…)

[RLetson]

Not rhythmically.

Well, not in 1936 or so. But there's something going on by 1947:

Or 1953:

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

That first one sounded like it was influenced a little bit by Salt Peanuts.

Most people change with the times. Django was something else.

[Cunamara]

According to the biographies, Django heard the first bebop recordings of the day pretty quickly. And liked what he heard, adapted what he could. His post-Quintet stuff- especially his amplified later things with the Steimer pickup- are different

[ragman1]

Does anybody really play bebop these days?

Not really, no. I think we'd like it to be so but, actually, no. Bebop proper went out in the 50's. Everything from there on became variations on bebop or simply bore a similarity to it. Certainly what the 'modern' players of today are playing isn't bebop.

It's all very well trying to stress that all this guitar playing has its roots in bebop, which is partially true, but because it's similar to it doesn't make it bebop. That's like saying we're still speaking Chaucherian English because there's a root similarity.

In any case, there's only so many ways of playing lines. There are only so many notes, only so many chromaticisms, only so many chordal sounds if a tune is going to be held together. On that level you may as well say that bebop was still the folk music or church music that preceded it. There's nothing new under the sun.

Doubtless there are people who still play bebop, or what passes for it these days, but they're an anachronism, keeping something they like alive. But the same could be said of anything kept alive by die-hards after its time has passed.

About the only thing that really broke the mold was the blues. and that was never bebop.

[thelostboss]

Well MacSparky seems to think there are and I quote:

"There are some remarkable contemporary jazz artists making traditional bebop jazz these days. One of my favorites is the Yayennings Quartet."


Jazz Friday - Yayennings, Vol. 2 - MacSparky

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Does anybody really play bebop these days?

Not really, no. I think we'd like it to be so but, actually, no. Bebop proper went out in the 50's. Everything from there on became variations on bebop or simply bore a similarity to it. Certainly what the 'modern' players of today are playing isn't bebop.

It's all very well trying to stress that all this guitar playing has its roots in bebop, which is partially true, but because it's similar to it doesn't make it bebop. That's like saying we're still speaking Chaucherian English because there's a root similarity.

In any case, there's only so many ways of playing lines. There are only so many notes, only so many chromaticisms, only so many chordal sounds if a tune is going to be held together. On that level you may as well say that bebop was still the folk music or church music that preceded it. There's nothing new under the sun.

Doubtless there are people who still play bebop, or what passes for it these days, but they're an anachronism, keeping something they like alive. But the same could be said of anything kept alive by die-hards after its time has passed.

About the only thing that really broke the mold was the blues. and that was never bebop.

It must take an awful lot of effort to be an expert on American music from across the pond.

[Litterick]

Incoming

[ragman1]

Well MacSparky seems to think there are and I quote:

"There are some remarkable contemporary jazz artists making traditional bebop jazz these days. One of my favorites is the Yayennings Quartet."


Jazz Friday - Yayennings, Vol. 2 - MacSparky

Interesting that MacSparky specifies 'traditional' bebop. Yayennings Vol. 2 is on YouTube, by the way. It seems that all the tracks are written by the band, though, not taken from the period. I'm not quite sure where that leaves the discussion but it's not bad music.

Also, interestingly, the quartet is sax, trumpet, bass and drums. No keys or guitar which means no chords in the background or solos although they play across each other. So, again, there's a sort of wondering about what the style actually is. With me, anyhow.

[DestinyT]

I'd argue no...I think bebop, that word, is as much a time and a place as it is a style. Bebop is a certain group of people. Bebop was made to keep the squares out. Nobody today can play bebop, we weren't there. We weren't part of the club. Lots of great living players weren't either.

People today play bop, or bop influenced music. It's an important distinction, I think, not just semantics. Thoughts?

I think so, too - and I find the above observations to be helpful, because they help me identify with greater precision the elements of the music (and culture) which matter to me. Admittedly, these evolve. (Currently, the verb ' to groove' is my main focus - though I apply it to all ?feels.)

I find the observation about 'keeping the squares out' particularly helpful. Sad, too.

[mr. beaumont]

That first one sounded like it was influenced a little bit by Salt Peanuts.

Most people change with the times. Django was something else.

When I listen to Django's writing, I hear him and Monk as kindred spirits.

[Guy In Lyon]

"Bebop" died in the 70s. It's playing is purely nostalgic.
It's good, just nothing more than, let's say, Dixieland.

[Guy In Lyon]

And I'm sure you all drink sparkling wine unless it comes from a specific region in France?

If you use the phrase "you all" then you probably think any sparkling wine is "champagne."

[coyote-1]

Does anybody really play bebop these days?

About the only thing that really broke the mold was the blues. and that was never bebop.

Yet bebop is clearly derived from the blues. Sub a vi7 for a IV, drop a ii > V7 to get back to I, and you’ve got Rhythm changes and the majority of other progressions over which the bebop guys played their solos. Now drop a Coltrane bIII or something in there, and if you can hang with it deploying the same tools they did you’re definitely playing bebop.

That you’re not doing it 78 years ago is irrelevant. Whether an audience exists for it is a different question. But for those of us who earned a living gigging and have given that up, the joy of (attempting to) play bebop far outweighs the sadness of the dwindling audience.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

If you play a bebop tune, you’re playing bebop.

If you play a Renaissance tune you’re playing Renaissance. If you play it romantically, that’s on you.

[ragman1]

Yet bebop is clearly derived from the blues.

No, it's derived from swing, Harlem 1920's. That's not to say it didn't use aspects of blues but there were other forms of swing too.

Just a moment...

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

"Bebop" died in the 70s. It's playing is purely nostalgic.
It's good, just nothing more than, let's say, Dixieland.

70s? I thought Miles killed it in ‘59.

and of course Diz lived until ‘93, Joe Pass ‘94, and Oscar Peterson 2007. What were THOSE guys playing after 1979? Cannonball, Phil Woods,,,,,,,,,,,,