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Hi Dave!
I don’t know how I’m getting into being the defender of electric vehicles, I don’t even own one!
That said, I think you’re off on everything you said. None of the people I know have had to upgrade their electrical or spend $4k to charge their cars. A gas powered Honda Accord and a Tesla are only about $10,000 apart, but the Tesla will cost between $15,000 and $20,000 less in fuel over 100,000 miles. Cheaper electrics are already beginning to show up from Volkswagen and others. Maintenance on an electric car is less than gas, not more (not sure where you got the opposite impression.) They have far fewer parts, don’t need oil changes, etc. In fact, they are much cheaper to build too, but the batteries are still what’s expensive.
There have been several articles published recently on how an electric vehicle is significantly cheaper to own over time. I again asked my friend if he was paying a three thousand dollar premium for insurance, and he just looked at me like I was crazy.
I’m sure there will be all kinds of unforeseen negatives to switching to electric cars, just not the ones you bring up. Again, I’m no evangelist. Frankly, if I could never get in a car again I would be truly happy.
As far as being “middle class” transportation, I’m stumped. Average car price (all cars, not just electric) in the US topped $47,000 this year. Median home prices in my city just made $800,000. Who are these people who can afford any of this? Not me, that’s for sure.
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03-16-2022 07:23 PM
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Wow, surprise ... Vancouver has changed a lot since I was there (in spring '79)
EV ... EV ... rings a bell...
FWIW, multi-day road trips are very much a norm here too, in the bigger countries. I think most people stick to the highways for that; we prefer to keep to the smaller and above all toll-free roads. We don't always cover more than what a decent electric car could do with possibly a quick charge in between, but it's also a luxury if you don't have to hunt for a (cheap) fuel station before arriving at destination.
I have no idea about the situation in Paris, but here on my countryside it's a rare event *) to see a Tesla (there are more and more hybrids though). As soon as I enter the Netherlands though it's as if every other employee drives a company Tesla. The country is small enough that the longest A-B trip can probably be taken on a single charge.
*) It was an even rarer event to see an old Cadillac Eldorado convertible (old enough to require leaded fuel) manage to turn into my tiny local gas station, last autumn. It blocked 2 pumps (and could probably have used them, too)
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You can probably find ICE cars that cost a whole lot more than the Tesla (and maybe not guzzle significantly more than the Accord). The fuel price argument is appealing (I haven't verified the calculation), but how many battery packs will the Tesla need over those 100k miles, and how much will that cost (assuming you want to maintain a healthy action radius)?!
Originally Posted by rlrhett
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Which one of us is Dave? Originally Posted by rlrhett
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Wilson 1 is Dave.
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So is he
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Phew! Originally Posted by rlrhett
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RJVB, nice to see another Italian bike enthusiast on the Forum. I've had 3 Guzzi's over the years, a Le Mans 2 (called the CX100 in the States), a Jackal, and a V11 Sport. Also a Moto Morini 3/1/2 Sport (spoke wheels) and a Laverda 750 Sport. Originally Posted by RJVB
Wow, surprise ... Vancouver has changed a lot since I was there (in spring '79)
EV ... EV ... rings a bell...
FWIW, multi-day road trips are very much a norm here too, in the bigger countries. I think most people stick to the highways for that; we prefer to keep to the smaller and above all toll-free roads. We don't always cover more than what a decent electric car could do with possibly a quick charge in between, but it's also a luxury if you don't have to hunt for a (cheap) fuel station before arriving at destination.
I have no idea about the situation in Paris, but here on my countryside it's a rare event *) to see a Tesla (there are more and more hybrids though). As soon as I enter the Netherlands though it's as if every other employee drives a company Tesla. The country is small enough that the longest A-B trip can probably be taken on a single charge.
*) It was an even rarer event to see an old Cadillac Eldorado convertible (old enough to require leaded fuel) manage to turn into my tiny local gas station, last autumn. It blocked 2 pumps (and could probably have used them, too)
I'm in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California and enjoy the twisty backroads these days with my Ducatis: 05 999S and 96 900 SS/SP. Also a BMW K1200 GT in the sable for two-up.
That's my solution: more motorcycles!
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I’ve had a Tesla Model X since 2017. I pay a bit more for insurance than I have in the past, but it’s a more valuable car than any I’ve had before. The maintenance costs in that time have been exactly $80 for a replacement 12v battery which is what powers the electronics. I did have a 50 amp circuit added to my garage for charging, but that was nowhere near $5000. Valuation websites show that it has a trade-in value of about 80% of what I paid for it in 2017 and 90% private party resale before accounting for the tax credit.
And as for batteries needed over 100k mile. One should only need the original one for far more miles than that. The Tesloop taxi service cars were showing about 90% of battery life remaining after 300k and 80% after 400k.
I’ve taken it on cross country road trips and into fairly remote areas (for the eastern seaboard) with no issues. As an added bonus, I was an early enough buyer that I have lifetime free charging on the Tesla Supercharger network, so fuel costs on road trips are $0.Last edited by ThatRhythmMan; 03-17-2022 at 07:09 AM.
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I had a 2007 Norge, which I loved but sold when it became clear I wouldn't be riding her (much) anymore because of a lower back problem. I always wanted a California though... Originally Posted by SierraTango
Any chance you've run across Todd Eagan, the man behind Guzzitech?
I'm guessing that's not 50A over 110V? Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
The installation cost can be limited to the components if you're a bit handy in this department, but what about your energy contract? Here in Europe there can be a hefty increase in how much you pay your electrons depending on how much max. power you need, and in the Netherlands you probably still get taxed if you consume more than a certain amount of energy.
Are we certain those are the same batteries using the same charging logic?The Tesloop taxi service cars were showing about 90% of battery life remaining after 300k and 80% after 400k.
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50A/240V circuit. Where I am in the US the electricity is charged at a flat rate. Originally Posted by RJVB
I'm guessing that's not 50A over 110V? The installation cost can be limited to the components if you're a bit handy in this department, but what about your energy contract? Here in Europe there can be a hefty increase in how much you pay your electrons depending on how much max. power you need, and in the Netherlands you probably still get taxed if you consume more than a certain amount of energy.
Are we certain those are the same batteries using the same charging logic?
Tesloop uses standard Tesla vehicles with standard batteries and charging. There are many, many Tesla drivers with well over 100k miles on their battery packs.
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As for home charging, for the time being we just plug into the normal home electrical outlet ("trickle charging"). We are charging overnight and that is all we need. In our province, there is also a rebate available if you upgrade.
If your electricity utility has lower rates overnight, you can configure your car to just change then.
Our electricity bills haven't gone up by as much as our gasoline bill has gone down, or have you not looked at the pumps recently?
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If America was not held hostage to big oil (Our political system is for all intents and purposes, corrupt, and has been since the beginning of the Republic), we could be investing in the infrastructure to make electric cars the norm in short order. Big solar farms in the Mohave Desert could feed enough electricity into a nationwide grid that could power our electric cars. Add Elon Musk's high speed tunnels into the equation and transport needs could be met with a low carbon footprint and less travel time, which would increase productivity (and happiness). But big Oil (and their totalitarian mid-East partners) keep the money rolling to our lackey politicians and so none of this will be happening for quite some time. Instead, that money will be spent on foreign wars that benefit the military-industrial complex.
It is all pretty easy to see. Follow the money.
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Originally Posted by SierraTango
RJVB, nice to see another Italian bike enthusiast on the Forum. I've had 3 Guzzi's over the years, a Le Mans 2 (called the CX100 in the States), a Jackal, and a V11 Sport. Also a Moto Morini 3/1/2 Sport (spoke wheels) and a Laverda 750 Sport.
I'm in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California and enjoy the twisty backroads these days with my Ducatis: 05 999S and 96 900 SS/SP. Also a BMW K1200 GT in the sable for two-up.
That's my solution: more motorcycles!
Yup! I do the same. My daily commute to and from work is 50 miles (80 km), and when the weather gets nice, out comes ye olde naked sport bike - my Indian FTR1200.
Me on the cold and chilly day in March 2020, when I picked up my new/old stock FTR1200
Electric cars (and motorcycles) are just not practical for me at the present time, due to the weekly mileage I do commuting - especially since I live in an apartment complex, with no electrical outlets, where the vehicles are parked.Last edited by EllenGtrGrl; 03-18-2022 at 10:35 PM.
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It better be. If those 50A are actually required I'd be looking at whatever we can get that's more than 110A/240V (we're currently at 60A because we have all-electric heating and cooking but I have a hunch that might be peanuts on the American scale even after compensation for the voltage difference). Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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hi Ellen Originally Posted by EllenGtrGrl
Yup! I do the same. My daily commute to and from work is 50 miles (80 km), and when the weather gets nice, out comes ye olde naked sport bike - my Indian FTR1200.
Me on the cold and chilly day in March 2020, when I picked up my new/old stock FTR1200
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sorry if I missed a previous answer
My mate is thinking of getting an FTR1200
is it a good bike ? any issues with the battery etc ?
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I live in the Mojave for now. Solar, hydro-electric and water resources are all tied together. There's a big difference between the Mojave and Sonoran Deserts. The Mojave is gravel. Yuma and the southern-most part of California are fertile ancient river beds. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
California is simply too big. It's going to wait until disaster and rely on global entities to solve water issues in the southwest.
That doesn't mean CA is the only one to blame. We all are.
Solar is more efficient in more temperate climates but it's the best option in non-fertile desert. It doesn't look like dams along the Colorado River will be producing hydro-electric power much longer. Maybe 2 years.
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My colleague has an early model S. IIRC, he told me the range has dropped from 280 miles to 240 miles. Hardly any maintenance required so to speak. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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Did you get that in Spirit Lake IA? I've been to the showroom there, not the factory which is across the street. My GF spent much of her high school years in Spirit Lake. Lovely place. Originally Posted by EllenGtrGrl
Yup! I do the same. My daily commute to and from work is 50 miles (80 km), and when the weather gets nice, out comes ye olde naked sport bike - my Indian FTR1200.
Me on the cold and chilly day in March 2020, when I picked up my new/old stock FTR1200
Electric cars (and motorcycles) are just not practical for me at the present time, due to the weekly mileage I do commuting - especially since I live in an apartment complex, with not electrical outlets, where the vehicles are parked.
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OK, rirhett thank you. Originally Posted by rlrhett
I was just reacting to a Wall Street Journal blurb and don't have any real facts myself...good reason to not post in the first place.
As you are right up against it I'll go with your view on this and stand corrected.
I'm sure you know Barry passed in December.
P.M. me when you get a chance...we can catch up.
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Mine's a 2019, I bought as a leftover. The 2022s IMO have worked out a goodly amount of the bugs the 2019s had. Mine was more of a streettracker (though when the original pseudo dirtrack tires go belly up, cheapskate lil' 'ol me will put a set of sport tires on it), the 2022s are mainly street oriented, with sport tires, and a 17 inch front wheel from the get go (mine has a 19 inch front wheel, which makes replacement tires a little slimmer selection-wise). They had issues with the fuel mapping causing surging and stalling, though at the time I bought mine, the latest fuel injection map had solved most of that (though mine has stalled out a couple of times during the past 2 years of riding). I did have battery issues, due to the fact that I am unable to hook up a battery tender (no electrical outlets in the underground parking my apartment building has), so I had 2 batteries call it quits on me. I got fed up with that, so I installed a lithium ion battery in mine (disconnected at the present time due to the cessation of riding due to winter). Originally Posted by pingu
It pulls like a freight train from 4000 rpm to redline (8500 or 9000 rpm - I can't remember). It also handles pretty well, which I like, since my riding is often on the sporty side. I will admit, that a couple of times, I have been on the wrong side of 110 mph (177 kmh), though as a rule, I typically don't do the ton, that often (I'm 58, and frankly, there are too many unpredictable things that can happen, even on an empty back road).
My FTR becomes my main set of wheels during the warm weather.Last edited by EllenGtrGrl; 03-17-2022 at 06:39 PM.
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Nope, I bought my FTR1200 in Muskego, WI (about 10 miles from where I live), which is just over the county line, from Milwaukee County, in Waukesha County, at Indian Motorcycle of Metro Milwaukee. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Last edited by EllenGtrGrl; 03-17-2022 at 06:36 PM.
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Let me add that with all the computer chips, sensors, and control boxes, purchasing a modern car has you considering some sort of car warranty to cover repairs.
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But you can sell all your tools to help pay for it, since you also can't fix anything on them yourself. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Companies increasingly seem to want to sell leaseplans rather than cars; AFAIK those typically include an extended warranty for the usual initial duration (after you're expected to trade in). My car comes from such a scheme, through a dealer specialising in selling this kind of vehicles (for the VAG group). Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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