Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 40 of 40
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Not a wonderful world- why Louis Armstrong was hated by so many

    Interesting reading. Not comforting, but informative, none-the-less.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    I remember the criticism of Louis as an "Uncle Tom", etc. It bugged me then and bugs me now, but less so.

    Louis was a revolutionary figure in the history of jazz. What did people expect, for him to keep reinventing it? Louis never lost the sense that being an entertainer meant you entertained people. He was incredibly good at that.

    None of the critics of his sides with Bing will ever do anything as perfect as this:



    I have two words for 'em: f*ck off.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    The Terry Teachout Bio " Pops " should be required reading in US schools.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    The Terry Teachout Bio " Pops " should be required reading in US schools.
    I haven't read that one. Just placed a hold on it at my local library.
    I follow Teachout on Twitter. Interesting guy. (Can't believe how many movies he seems to watch Every Day.)

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Yes, these sad products of a 'wasteland of a later career':





  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Who has any right to judge the decisions an African American made in the 20s or 30s to get by? Quite a difference even between then and the 50s, let alone today.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    One dimensional article like most things in the Guardian these days.

    The truth is .... complex

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    I didn’t think it was necessaily under-complex, but sometimes ill-informed. Calling Armstrong the greatest pop star of the 40‘s is certainly exaggerated, and promptly devalued by stories of the racism the „biggest pop star“ had to endure. And Dizzy‘s relationship wirh Pops was certainly more complex.


    Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Teachout also wrote a one-act play called "Satchmo at the Waldorf." I've neither read nor seen it staged.

    Here's a snippet from one staging of it. (It is not only a one-act play, it is a one-actor play.)






  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    The article is a book review.

    The book may be creditable but the review doesn't constructively speculate on Louis Armstrong in any way,
    in my opinion.

    For instance, in the third paragraph Armstrong's switch a more 'popular' style in the mid-30's is cited.

    No mention here of the lip injury from the same period that is widely believed to have
    permanently impaired Armstrong's great physical virtuosity on the horn.

    Irresponsible to leave this out and while discussing a great artist "selling out" this way, even in a review.

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    boo to the naysayers...pops was king...wynton marsalis' fave!

    a humble giant..outside his modest corona, queens nyc home...still doin good work



    cheers

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    ps- another "wasteland...later career" classic...bah





    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 12-17-2020 at 03:29 PM. Reason: ...

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    ^^

    here, here. the man practically invented jazz!
    even if had only done this the jazz world should be grateful


  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    What a tough position he was in, given the times. So many factors working against him. Would be an interesting read to see how he navigated this extremely tough course. Probably not for the faint of heart.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    miles with respect



    cheers

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    If your going to criticize, please put your life's accomplishments on a giant screen for the rest of the world to mock, criticize, judge, make fun of and grind to a pulp.

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by BWV
    Who has any right to judge the decisions an African American made in the 20s or 30s to get by? Quite a difference even between then and the 50s, let alone today.
    Looks like a few African Americans feel they have such a right.

    Here is what the fine actress Hattie McDaniel had to say on the topic:

    McDaniel wrote that the film industry had become a better place for black workers in the course of her career, and that black actors had gained recognition for their work. “I’d rather play a maid than be one,” she frequently said, according to Seth Abramovitch for Hollywood Reporter.

    Of winning the Oscar, she wrote:

    My own people were especially happy. They felt that in honoring me, Hollywood had honored the entire race. That was the way I wanted it. This was too big a moment for my personal back-slapping. I wanted this occasion to prove an inspiration to Negro youth for many years to come.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Good excerpt here from
    The Entertainer | The New Yorker


    What Gillespie’s and Davis’s judgments miss is that jollity can be a form of strength. Armstrong couldn’t imagine letting anyone, as he once said when dressing down a sideman, “fuck with my hustle.” Some have understood this partially, supposing that Armstrong was studiously putting on a brave face; Ralph Ellison said that he was wearing a defensive “mask,” with “sophistication and taste hiding behind clowning and crude manners.” Teachout, similarly, concludes that he “returned love for hatred and sought salvation in work.” But nothing Armstrong ever said or wrote suggests that he was hiding behind anything—“Look, you don’t pose never!” he told an interviewer—nor was there any perceptible space in a joyous soul such as his for anything so gloomy as a quest for “salvation.” To read him as defensively fashioning what we now call a “black identity” is presentist. Ellison came closer to understanding the essence of Armstrong when, in another context, he asked if it was possible for a people to “live and develop for over three hundred years simply by reacting?” Armstrong was, in his way, more advanced than those whose ethnic identities are radicalized by circumstance. His strength was that he did not react. Armstrong’s voluminous writings—which include two autobiographies and enough letters to constitute a de-facto lifetime journal—are a key to his uncontrived, comfortable essence. “My whole life has been happiness,” he wrote to a friend. “I love everybody.”

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Pops was a human, though extremely talented, like the rest of us. He had his faults, but achieved the pinnacle of success and influence despite having to fight against an unjust society his entire life.

    I think the details of his life, as with any history, are important, but sometimes you just get tired of arguments pro and con someone and want to listen to some good music.

    I love this video. You can tell the Danes had no idea what just hit them, but I'm sure they were enthralled by it.


  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    The Terry Teachout Bio " Pops " should be required reading in US schools.
    I haven't read that one, but Louis' 1st autobiography was awesome, and I'm halfway though his 2nd one (more about his adult life) and it is also great.

    Actually, just last night I read several pages he wrote on "swing" (what he calls original New Orleans Jazz) and commercial swing that started coming in the mid 30's.... it would have fit right into one of the "what IS jazz REALLY?" discussions here LOL...

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    The author must feel the same way about BB King....


    There's a good book, if anyone is interested, about what these artists went through on the "chitlin' circuit"...

    Amazon.com

    Interestingly, Louis does not talk much about the racism struggles in his autobiographies. It's as if he takes a "aw, they don't know no better" attitude, which is extremely generous and gracious on his part.

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Teachout's biography is a great one--truly of the standout (teachout?) musical biographs of our times.

    I would rank it up there with Guralnick's bio of Elvis and Sam Phillips, as well as Miles' autobiography. Required reading.

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit
    No mention here of the lip injury from the same period that is widely believed to have
    permanently impaired Armstrong's great physical virtuosity on the horn.
    His lips gave him a lot of trouble over the years. One fellow musician said they were hard as a piece of wood. I've read he sometimes removed the calluses with a razor blade.

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9
    There's a good book, if anyone is interested, about what these artists went through on the "chitlin' circuit"...

    Amazon.com

    .
    Thanks for the tip! I've put it on my list of things to read.

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    Not a wonderful world- why Louis Armstrong was hated by so many

    Interesting reading. Not comforting, but informative, none-the-less.
    Saw that too... Humphrey Lyttelton - Wikipedia who played with him a few times, & with whom he stayed at least once said Armstrong did what it took to survive. Before West End Blues got me I heard this (via a J Geils band cover featuring the brecker brothers among others...)


  27. #26

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dot75

    Heard this, 'Cakewalkin' Babies' and Hooker's original 'Boogie Chillen' for the first time as a teen.

    Back then I had to wait for miracles to be revealed on the radio.

    I was fortunate to witness a bit of the end of the Trad Jazz Revival.

    Thanks for reminding me.

  28. #27

    User Info Menu

    a latter day louie A classic

    dukes- solitude



    cheers

  29. #28

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    His lips gave him a lot of trouble over the years. One fellow musician said they were hard as a piece of wood. I've read he sometimes removed the calluses with a razor blade.
    I accidentally clicked an article in a medical website showing pictures of the modern procedure to correct this...is it 'bad technique' ?

    playing too much ? I don't know any trumpet players any more - Looks horrific...

    Humphrey Lyttleton (^^) on first meeting Armstrong, was handed a tin of lip balm, 'let me lay some cream on ya'.

    Lytleton said it ruined his playing for a couple of years...

  30. #29

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dot75
    I accidentally clicked an article in a medical website showing pictures of the modern procedure to correct this...is it 'bad technique' ?

    playing too much ? I don't know any trumpet players any more - Looks horrific...

    Humphrey Lyttleton (^^) on first meeting Armstrong, was handed a tin of lip balm, 'let me lay some cream on ya'.

    Lytleton said it ruined his playing for a couple of years...
    Prolly cause it had some Swiss Kriss in it LOL! that would change anybody up.

    It’s weird the occupational hazards of musicians...lip sores, calluses, bad teeth, subcutaneous emphysema for horn blowers...performing is a precarious life for sure!

  31. #30

    User Info Menu

    Pianist Hal Galper says "musicians are athletes of the small muscles."

    Stan Getz grew up playing from an early age and his physiognomy developed accordingly.
    This allowed him to employ a 'double-lip' embouchure and use a 'heavy set-up,' that is, reed & mouthpiece.
    This translates to "impossible for mere mortals."
    Being able to perform physically (not to mention musically) in an extreme way allowed him become "The Sound."

    Studio great Wayne Bergeron had force injury problems in his youth.
    He says Maynard (in who's outfit he played) had the high notes at fourteen; a natural.

    Pops hurt himself and the world was reduced.

    This stuff is the source of endless talk and effort today with horn students.

    Here is Adam Rapa making seem easy. Sure.


  32. #31

    User Info Menu

    Love this duet with Ella on "Stompin' At The Savoy." The ending improv is classic. Never hear this without feeling happy.


  33. #32

    User Info Menu

    ^ your man herb ellis really wailin on that one!!

    great band


    Louis Armstrong – vocals; trumpet
    Ella Fitzgerald – vocals
    Oscar Peterson – piano
    Herb Ellis – guitar
    Ray Brown – bass
    Louie Bellson – drums


    cheers

  34. #33

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit
    Pianist Hal Galper says "musicians are athletes of the small muscles."

    Stan Getz grew up playing from an early age and his physiognomy developed accordingly.
    This allowed him to employ a 'double-lip' embouchure and use a 'heavy set-up,' that is, reed & mouthpiece.
    This translates to "impossible for mere mortals."
    Being able to perform physically (not to mention musically) in an extreme way allowed him become "The Sound."

    Studio great Wayne Bergeron had force injury problems in his youth.
    He says Maynard (in who's outfit he played) had the high notes at fourteen; a natural.

    Pops hurt himself and the world was reduced.

    This stuff is the source of endless talk and effort today with horn students.

    Here is Adam Rapa making seem easy. Sure.

    There's a video of Tommy Emmanuel's welcome to Berklee speech when he shows the students his hands, which are very different after years of playing chords with his thumb over the neck.

    Denis DiBlasio's youtube chanel has some great Maynard Ferguson stories...

  35. #34

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dot75
    There's a video of Tommy Emmanuel's welcome to Berklee speech when he shows the students his hands, which are very different after years of playing chords with his thumb over the neck.

    Denis DiBlasio's youtube chanel has some great Maynard Ferguson stories...
    11 months ago...

    Louis Armstrong Article-4bb70055-0528-4242-8bd5-789ea844ef68-jpeg

  36. #35

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dot75

    Humphrey Lyttleton (^^) on first meeting Armstrong, was handed a tin of lip balm, 'let me lay some cream on ya'.

    Lytleton said it ruined his playing for a couple of years...
    From the New York Times:

    In the mid-1930s, during an extended tour of Europe, Louis Armstrong found himself in Germany with a split lip, a fairly common injury for him. But by luck, he had recently made the acquaintance of Franz Schuritz, a trombonist who also happened to be the inventor of Ansatz-Crème, an invigorating lip balm. Armstrong was an immediate and lifelong convert.... By the mid-1950s, Ansatz-Crème was endorsed by Armstrong and the tins were rebranded with his name getting top billing.


    What does (^^) mean? I have a great admiration for Humphrey Lyttelton.

  37. #36

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dot75
    Humphrey Lyttleton (^^) on first meeting Armstrong, was handed a tin of lip balm, 'let me lay some cream on ya'.

    Lytleton said it ruined his playing for a couple of years...
    are you sure it was lip balm?

    Louis Armstrong and the Great Swiss Kriss Evacuation | David Boles, Blogs

  38. #37

    User Info Menu

    dot75,

    Thank you mucho for the 'hedzup' on Denis DiBlasio.

    Found this searching him on youtube, a recent interview with "the Jazz Video Guy."


  39. #38

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Well Humph thought it was....maybe he got the wrong end of the stick (yes. that was intended) & mis applied it (!?)

    Heard it from the man himself - A band I was in shared a stage with him at a a gig once & I thanked him for his Radio Prog

    - almost the only place to hear jazz in the UK pre internet.

  40. #39

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick


    From the New York Times:

    In the mid-1930s, during an extended tour of Europe, Louis Armstrong found himself in Germany with a split lip, a fairly common injury for him. But by luck, he had recently made the acquaintance of Franz Schuritz, a trombonist who also happened to be the inventor of Ansatz-Crème, an invigorating lip balm. Armstrong was an immediate and lifelong convert.... By the mid-1950s, Ansatz-Crème was endorsed by Armstrong and the tins were rebranded with his name getting top billing.


    What does (^^) mean? I have a great admiration for Humphrey Lyttelton.
    I'n not sure I'd want my lips 'Invigorating' but I'll ask the internet what's in it...

    Me too, ^^ was referencing my previous post in case any unfortunate forum members don't know him...

  41. #40

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit
    dot75,

    Thank you mucho for the 'hedzup' on Denis DiBlasio.

    Found this searching him on youtube, a recent interview with "the Jazz Video Guy."

    There's some great content - not least the stories about life on the road...

    I found him via a forum link to his video extolling Jerry Coker's books - a study group I didn't join