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Physical attractiveness is very imprtant in some genres like American Idol type instant stars.
Then you have people like downright homely Ed Sheeran who seem to make it without being good looking.
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12-11-2018 08:18 AM
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Chops are totally secondary, and have been for a long time. Quincy Jones called Paul McCartney a lousy bass player, and by the standards he was used to, he's probably right. But think Ron Carter vs. Paul McCartney - who's the better player, and who is a household name? Paul must have done something right.
If you "only" play well, anybody who plays just as well can and will replace you (can't get Ron Carter, use Christian McBride). As an artist, you need to offer something unique, and put your personality in it (however much that is a projected, ideal personality). This is probably where the true "chops" lie - in the technical proficiency to stage yourself.
Or to put it differently - the man who knows how will always have a job. The man who knows why will always be his boss. The same is true for women, of course.
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I think the technique/guitar hero thing ducked out quite a bit in the 90's.
In the 2000's for over a decade there's was probably at least a decade of rock and heavy rock players trying up each others chops. Wrapping their mind around the speed of things(essentially playing simple shit really fast) and being utterly clueless about the 'feel' of something.
Current state of the industry now, I just don't think anyone cares. Nothing that impressive when you can see videos of 12 year olds from every part of the world nail fast rock stuff.....guitar, drums. All of it.
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Well a lot of the Beatles era I love is them trying to get the Motown sound, and failing because they weren't massively swinging jazz musicians and church raised singers from Detroit.
But then to hear Americans raving about the special sound the British bands of that era had - well clearly that's a thing.
I mean, their time feel is somewhat stodgy English, and I have to say as an exemplar of stodgy English time feel you have to born in that tradition.
Anyway this thread kind of is talking about an era that is ancient history. I mean, even 10 years ago is ancient history in the music biz. Technology has moved the goalposts not just over the past 10 years, but for the entire lifetime of the business... I mean we can go back to the invention of the printing press....
Seems today there's a lot of activity outside the traditional music biz channels. Take Joe Bonnamassa. He's packing out the auditoriums. He's not on the trad music business radar, yet in a very real sense he's 'made it'. Prob not the greatest blues player i the world (I like his playing) but he got the business right.
So I have to quote Robert Fripp (slightly paraphrased no doubt, I've been thinking of this quote for 25 years):
'amateur musicians think about music, professional musicians think about business. If you want only to think about music, stay amateur, but if you want to serve music, this is the price we pay for the privilege.'
Never heard it said better.
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Originally Posted by DS71
It's all a bit backing tracks and clinics - not my bag, I'd rather be in a vibey pub any day - but it is an industry... They get endorsements, etc, etc.... Not mainstream, but there isn't really a mainstream now. These players get a lot of hits, too.
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Originally Posted by rpguitar
You see I am a manager in a big corporation (one in top 3 in industry on global level) of course I am not top.. but level is enough to see all the methods from inside.
I believe that real business is where the owner or a shareholder is... when it is their money they risk.
You see I am not talking about business talents like Ford -whatever personality he was - he business was his blood and sweat...
I am talking about other guys...
the managers that are employed on salary... In corporations it is much more like a political party: intrigues, manipulations, declarations, positioning youself.
From some level they become almost unsinkable... they make mistakes and almost always it is enough for them to appologoze and take a half-year vacation and oops CFO that was accused in inproper behaviour is aleady a CEO next year...
they migrate from company to company... invent new products and conceptions that will be forgotten after they leave the company...
And they pretend... pretend confident, pretend serious, pretenf firm, pretend worried and responsive, they pretend so much that they begin to believe in it. Most of them are also pushed from above...
They spend huge amounts of money for business trips and dinners that will have almost no benifite and they try to save every cent when it concerns the improvement of the conditions for their employees.
trial period for them is usually about 2 years and even if they were not extremely succeful they will get a valuable experience in CV.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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By way of an explanation why chops are only part of the package, I just found this:
So, broadly speaking, what exactly was [DJ] Steve Angello doing? An artist does two things. One is the work. This can manifest as an idea, song, text, painting, mix, performance...I can go on and on. And the edge cases here can be fun. Air can be work (Duchamp, Air de Paris), or work can be work (Mierle Laderman Ukeles’ artist residency at New York’s Department of Sanitation), or lack of work can be the work (Nam June Paik, Zen for Film). I love this kinda stuff.
The other thing an artist does is showbiz. Showbiz is anything that happens once the work "leaves the studio." These two sides of an artist form something like a mobius strip—they are related and continuous, and also completely dependent on each other. So when considering an artist broadly, one needs to take both things into account.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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Originally Posted by Little JayOriginally Posted by JonahOriginally Posted by joe2758Originally Posted by JonahOriginally Posted by MarkRhodesOriginally Posted by DrumblerOriginally Posted by ronjazzOriginally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandlesOriginally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Originally Posted by DS71
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Originally Posted by docsteve
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Let's face it, American rock bands sucked (with a very few exceptions) from 60's to late 70's, when Ramones and Van Halen show that Americans can rock too. Then it all changed.
But God bless 'stodgy time feel'!
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by docsteve
Also monster players often have monster egos, and that comes out in their music, which is a turn off, not to mention being a ruining factor for their careers.
Case in point, just watched a documentary on Jimmy Rosenberg, called Jon And Jimmy. Highly recommended on why monstrous players can have a hard time making it sometimes.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
It's the way that music was refracted through an alien culture.
And then sold to white middle America, and refracted again lol.
There's a danger in getting thing too right. After all, Clapton might have been a purist, but it didn't stop him using new types of gear for new sounds... And playing with a jazz based rhythm section lol.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Last edited by guitarbuddy; 12-11-2018 at 07:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by docsteve
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Check out his alternate career choice at 4.58... hilarious!
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Seeing Jimmy Bruno like this is depressing.
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Originally Posted by guitarbuddy
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Drumbler
Not everyone successful is attractive, though. The more you can do on your own, the less you may need looks. I don't think anyone has ever considered Abraham Lincoln to be among the most attractive US presidents, but he is widely considered one of the greatest. (It helps to write well...)
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
It's off topic of the thread, but to give Brits most of the credit overlooks some legendary American bands. Doors, CCR, Beach Boys, Fleetwood Mac, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful dead, CSN&Y, Allman Bros just to name a few.
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