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I agree. I think that part of it has to do with the tunes. The old guys often played Standards which are great tunes with familiar melodies that are easy grab a hold of. I have no emotional attachment to the new songs. I feel that I am a progressive thinker in music and in life but there is something about those old Standards that is special.
Originally Posted by vladmartino
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07-25-2018 02:44 PM
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This has a very euphoric feeling to me. I love it.
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Partly I think it's because these young jazz musicians aren't usually composers. How can they be expected to compose something that stands up on its own terms without the training or experience? These compositions tend to be vehicles for the improv and technique rather than pieces in themselves. You have to write a lot to write something good... It takes work. You might not need classical chops, but you need to be interested in writing. Originally Posted by Doublea A
Ask any songwriter.
(It's worth saying that jazz musicians are heavily incentivised to record originals because the jazz musician's art - improvisation - is not recognised in copyright law. If I play a gig of originals in the UK, I get paid a bit of extra money through the PRS, for instance.)
It's also about the values of the composition. The musicians who wrote standards were by and large not jazz musicians. They were songwriters. (There are some exceptions (Duke Ellington) of course, and interesting shades of grey (Monk) and I'm not really counting the tradition of contrafact writing here.)
Improvisation can overlap with composition obviously. Sometimes the compositional voice is very different from the improvisational voice.... In most cases of modern players the compositions sound like the improv, which is to say notey and impressive. But songlike? Usually not. There are exceptions!Last edited by christianm77; 07-25-2018 at 03:45 PM.
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Not sure if this counts but I have a big soft spot for EST
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This rocks! But then again, it's a Brazilian band, and Brazilians are not known for Nerd Jazz exactly. Originally Posted by christianm77
Is it ok to use 'Nerd Jazz' as a style label? Pretty much characterize all the modern thing started from Kurt Rosenwinkle till today.
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wow lol, i was afraid to use this "nerd" label , but honestly thats how i felt while listening to it, i would also use academic and chamber like. nothing wrong with that that thoug
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Of course! I can't help but share this but understand, I actually like a bit of nerd jazz from time to time. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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ok there is definitely identifiable emotion in this piece for me! totally different ball game , love it. the sound how lite it is etc, the sound and composition itself lends to much better perception and feel , for me anyways Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Triades is a brilliant composition. It may not sound that hard to play and, in fact, it's not that hard to get close. But, getting all the way there is something else. It is very tough to pick the melody -- it would be far easier fingerstyle (which Chico can do), but the articulation of the notes wouldn't be the same. It is also very difficult to execute some of the passages near the 12th fret cleanly. Reminds me of Wes -- it doesn't sound that hard until you try to play it. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Chico is Brazilian, but studied at Berklee. He is just as good playing Out of Nowhere or a blues in F.
Brazilian jazz has followed a different path from American jazz, at least, on balance. There is plenty of cross-pollination.
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Not sure if this counts as jazz, but honestly I don't care.
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Nah it's fine. Just go DDU. ;-) Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
What? He's mastered both kind of music!He is just as good playing Out of Nowhere or a blues in F.
(I know that's not what you meant :-))
It's still related to songs more to my ear, and vocal music...Brazilian jazz has followed a different path from American jazz, at least, on balance. There is plenty of cross-pollination.
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Quite different vibe, but not 'academic' to my ears in any way.
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Wow that hit the spot! Pent up energy..hot ! Originally Posted by christianm77
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Some of the "contemporary jazz" posted on this thread has been very interesting and beautiful. Some, like the video originally posted feels like work to listen to. I suppose it has less to do with a particular style as it does with musicality. Good is good no matter what the style. Unlistenable music is bad no matter how advanced the player's technique.
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I agree. I'm most of us would rather listen to a great delta blues player pour out their soul on a 3 string guitar if it was really happening, but technique doesn't have to deny soul or vibe in music (just ask Coltrane.) Originally Posted by rlrhett
The problem is more that technique, once acquired is a convenient thing to rest on... Once craft is acquired you have to go beyond it...
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Both kinds. Country, and, Western. Originally Posted by christianm77
It's curious that Americans really don't sound Brazilian when they try to play Brazilian music. There's an accent, and the usual explanation is that we Americans didn't grow up with those rhythms.
Yet, when I've heard Brazilian bands break into swing (usually as a kind of joke), they sound authentic.
To my ear the difference between Brazilian jazz and American jazz is in the flow of the harmony. The Brazilians always seem to have smooth flow -- nothing jagged to the ear -- even while the chords are moving through outer space (compared to the chord progressions we're accustomed to in standards). That, and the music is usually rhythmic, often to the point of being danceable.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 07-25-2018 at 05:32 PM.
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They play upbeats, which is nice.
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Here's another "modern" player that doesn't suck at music, while we're sharing clips. In fact Rotem is probably my favorite guy from the "Too-Cool"-Nerd (TCN) jazz scene. What I like about Rotem is that he doesn't try as hard to sound cool as some of these other guys (I won't name names), and he has a great sense of humor in his playing.
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One approach to comping samba on guitar is to play all upbeats.
That statement is true but insufficient.
The upbeats have to be phrased or articulated, or something, just right, or the music won't swing. When you hit it, when you release it, where it sits in the frequency spectrum -- if you don't get that all perfect, the upbeats sound bad. Don't ask me how I know this.
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That's the difference between really playing upbeats and merely understanding them on an intellectual level. Different feels & placements of course... but it's true of US swing too. Merely playing the upbeat metronomically is a start .... but not enough to swing.... Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Exactly. And yet, in years of study in various situations, I have rarely heard much instruction about the difference between playing something "correctly" and making the same thing swing. Originally Posted by christianm77
When a student talks about wanting to improve time, the usual prescription is practice with a metronome, but that's no guarantee either. I can't recall hearing very much useful about improving feel. Well, maybe the suggestion to put the 'nome on 2 & 4. Also, the suggestion to take up drums, although there are drummers who can play but don't have great feel.
What I have been doing recently is playing along with videos where the guitarist has great time feel and I can see and hear exactly what he's doing. Then, if I remind myself every time I pick up the guitar, I spend a higher percentage of the time playing on the better side of my ability. But, it's still easier in practice than in a group, where I have to account for multiple takes on the feel at once.
We don't talk that much about it, but it has always seemed to me that a great player can make a single note sound good -- with great time.
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