What happens when guitar players get older...

[john.westhoff]

Although i have been playing guitar since i was 13 it has never been more than juist playing a couple of "cowboy" chords and pentatonic scale forms. The last year or so i've been taking it more seriously, taking lessons from a jazz teacher and studying on the instrument. I am 52 and i guess it should be possible to become a skilled player after all... But i am wondering if "older" players start loosing the ability to play guitar as a result from getting older.

Are there any senior player around here to shed some light on this subject?

P.S. excuse me for my poor English, as a dutchmen it is not my first language...

[yaclaus]

I'm not a senior play, but I've had probably around 5 students of that age. Short answer: you have some cognitive advantages but also some disadvantages with motor memory. However if you put in a big effort I don't think it's a problem at all! My students have full time jobs and kids which to me is the biggest reason why they're not playing extremely well, not their age.

[john.westhoff]

Thanks, i'm aware of the challenges to find practice time when you have a fulltime job and a family... I even try to get some playing and studying done in my luchbreak! I'm wondering if physical problems keep older players from playing en how they prevent this happening. Sort of: "how long will i enjoy my effort..."

[mercosound]

Growing old is definitely not for the faint of heart - I'm looking down the barrel at 66, and it's far different from turning 46... However, I don't think my ability to play guitar has deteriorated as much as say, my vision, or the amount of effort it now seems to take to cut and split a load of firewood, or my patience with paperwork/bookkeeping. I may not play quite as many notes as I once did, but I'm happier with the the ones I choose. Could be lucky though; a buddy of mine from high school played guitar for a living throughout his adult life, but had to stop entirely (for physical reasons) a few years back. On the other hand, Stephane Grappelli's playing at age 80 was better than ever.

One good thing about getting older - you usually don't have to work anymore (or can work significantly less), which leaves a lot more time for playing music.

[goldenwave77]

Casals, the cellist, was active into his 80's.

Artur Rubenstein, the great Romantic piano virtuoso, said he playing got better once he hit 80.

(There was also a guy whose name I can't quite remember...something like Erwin Nieadjihatzi...from maybe Romania, or Hungary, who did some piano recordings when he was almost 90, that received favorable acclaim. This was back in the late 80's I believe.)

These may be outliers--not the typical case, but it certainly is possible, esp. if you're continuing to work new things into your playing. A lot of people say the stuff Barney Kessel did on "Soaring"---which was 1967-ish--when he was about 45, was the best chordal stuff he'd ever done.

Older dogs can still learn new tricks, but it may take a little more effort, and more reinforcement.

[AlsoRan]

If when you say "losing the ability to play" you are talking about physical problems such as wrist and back trouble, I too would like to read what others have to say about it.

[john.westhoff]

Yep, loosing physical ability to play is one of the main questions. I know and see the exceptions mentioned, famous musicians at hige ages, but are they exceptions?

[medblues]

Start eating turmeric like there is no tomorrow :-)

[oldane]

I learned to read music notation when I was around 50 years old and after that I worked my way through Mark Levine's jazz theory book. When I was in my late 50s I began to play rhythm guitar a la Freddie Green which among other things involved using a much higher string action and different chord shapes than I had used before.

One of my favorite classical musicians, violinist Ivry Gitlis, is in his mid 90s and still active - when he's not driving his fast sports cars on the French riviera, a favorite pastime of his.

By all means, get on with it. It's definitely possible. It's a great satisfaction to learn new things.

[mrcee]

I'm 68 and am playing better than ever. I have to take better care of my hands than in the past with warm up routines etc.

[goldenwave77]

And what will you (john.westoff) do with this "knowledge"? How do you know if you're an exception, or one of the many?

IF you can play---then play; if you can't---then you won't.

I think it's possible to overthink this.

And if the answer is not clearcut, as I suspect it is, i.e. some concessions need to be made (more warmup time; less playing at long stretches, etc.), this is going to be extremely individual: Every person will draw the line differently.

[TH]

I look at each stage of my life as having strengths and weaknesses. Of course an impatient 16 year old kid with infinite energy and zero patience will be able to do things unique to that age; that only that balance will tame. Educators have made studies of how learning changes as a process at different ages; who we are as musicians changes too. We retain what we can at each era, mix that with what we are, and if we're honest, what results is maturity.
Look at early Beethoven. Look at late Beethoven. Look at early Jim Hall. Look at late Jim Hall.
I found having so many options and possibilities overwhelming when I was younger. I found losing energy and magically bestowed enthusiasm depressing. I found creating a more informed and integrative synthesis of music and mind the most satisfying revelation, and that came with time.
I met a great alto player, Jimmy Mosher, when I came to this town. He said that you don't even find your voice until you're 40 so don't waste your time trying, just play. I've heard many people say that this was bullshit, but when they got to 40, something AHA! happened and they understood.
There's a tradeoff as one ages. It can be a gain. It can be a loss. If you manage to find the balance of what was, what is and what can be, you're an artist. That's life.

David

[Scotto]

I'm going to see Harold Maybern play in a couple nights. He's the pianist who played with Wes during his tour of Europe. He's almost 90 years old still touring and playing. I think with music as well as art, painting, sculpture etc, you use that part of the brain where creativity comes from which I believe can be a good thing.

[john.westhoff]

And what will you (john.westoff) do with this "knowledge"? How do you know if you're an exception, or one of the many?

IF you can play---then play; if you can't---then you won't.

I think it's possible to overthink this.

And if the answer is not clearcut, as I suspect it is, i.e. some concessions need to be made (more warmup time; less playing at long stretches, etc.), this is going to be extremely individual: Every person will draw the line differently.

I'm interested in the personal experiences of players that are already a little older....

[goldenwave77]

Well, write an article about it, and maybe the AARP magazine will be interested. And I'm not being snide.

They're a pretty well run organization, that has a LOT of marketing clout, as their membership is potentially huge, and many of their members have some disposable income for music hobbying.

My gf likes their magazine and is always reading it, and she is....wait better not mention this in public, or I'll be in trouble, getting towards 60.

[mrcee]

Well, from my experience, my mind is intact and probably the best it's been in a lot of regards. My memory is excellent
(too good actually, there's plenty of things I wish I could forget) but in regards, strictly, to my guitar playing it's all about keeping my hands in good shape with warm ups, self massage, acupressure and various exercises. And not playing for long stretches continuously. I try to play for several hours a day and break it up into 1 or 2 hour sessions with lots of short breaks. On days when I may have some hand or finger pain I'll still play a little. But I'll maybe just play for 2 minutes and then rest for 5, and continue like that for a while. And I've got a policy to quit playing immediately if I ever get any sudden sharp pain and wait a few hours before I continue.

[pkirk]

I'm 56, practice 1 to 2 hours a day. Two experiences that might address the OP's question:

My default is to pick very lightly, with low action. I have found though, that if I dont play for a few days, finger strength and accuracy decreases much more rapidly than it used to, and so I've taken to stringing up my practice guitar with slightly higher gauge strings and slightly higher action, then when I perform with my gigging guitar the guitar feels easier to play.

The other experience is: I was always an OK sight reader but not great. I put in about 1 years effort at sight reading when I was 19, and got ok at it, but over the years I found myself in situations (higher profile gigs, sessions with some of the better local players, sub situations) which I found extremely stressful. At age 53 I told myself I'd dedicate my energy to becoming a good sight reader, and, being an obsessive, I practiced sight reading about 2 hours a day for a year, and about an hour a day in the last year and a half. I'm stunned by how slow it's going. I now sight read much much better and faster than I ever could, and probably could be considered a decent "for a guitarist" sight reader, but at the pace I'm improving it would take another 5 years to get where I thought I could get in one year with focused practice. I may just be mentally deficient, but I think age is the issue.

[kris]

What happens when guitar players get older...

I practise more and more...

[Dennis D]

I'm interested in the personal experiences of players that are already a little older....

" I'm sorry - -what were we talking about again ?? "

" And could you speak up a little, please ? "

Just my two cents - - keep a smile on your face and go from there.

(( All the best from yours truly - - 68 y.o. going on either 80 or 25 - not sure. But what I do know for sure is I've been having fun playing since the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. ))

[MarkRhodes]

Keep playing. Even if it turns out (-in whatever way you deemed best to judge this) that you would have become better if you kept at it when younger, it's a sure bet that the only way to get better from where you are now is to practice and play. A lot. Worrying won't help; practice will. (I say this with love. I'm 58 and often find myself thinking, "If I had known then what I know now, I would've done so and so." But after about 30 seconds of that, I realize the best option available to me now is to practice and play. You certainly won't improve by thinking about reasons age may hinder your playing. Age hinders everything, from getting up in the morning to sleeping through the night, but as the saying goes, "It sure beats the alternative.")

[AlsoRan]

Keep playing. Even if it turns out (-in whatever way you deemed best to judge this) that you would have become better if you kept at it when younger, it's a sure bet that the only way to get better from where you are now is to practice and play. A lot. Worrying won't help; practice will. (I say this with love. I'm 58 and often find myself thinking, "If I had known then what I know now, I would've done so and so." But after about 30 seconds of that, I realize the best option available to me now is to practice and play. You certainly won't improve by thinking about reasons age may hinder your playing. Age hinders everything, from getting up in the morning to sleeping through the night, but as the saying goes, "It sure beats the alternative.")

At 54 years of age, and having been playing for 10 years, I have found that I have to be carefully with my non-guitar activities affecting my hands. I still have not figured out how to lift heavy weights without feeling it later in my wrists, hands, shoulders and forearms.

I know disaster awaits if I don't use good posture and back off with the weightlifting a little.

My eyes have taken a beating. I use glasses to read the music but then when I look back at the guitar, it is magnified too much and causes eyestrain. If I take the glasses off, the fretboard gets a little blurry and I have trouble reading the music.

Mentally, I have some crazy "senior moments" but I also have those in which I digest lots of information the way I did when I was a young technician.

I don't blame you for wanting some "preservation" tips on how to approach aging as a guitarist. Athletes do the same thing.

Finally, warming up is so important. When I bench press with dumbells, I start out with 35 lbs. I get up to 100 lbs. eventually but I always start with light weight and work my way up. I do the same on the guitar or else I get sharp pains in different joints.

Good luck on your particular journey.

[fep]

When it comes to music memory is an issue for me, I'm 59. You remember tunes, scales, chords, arps, etc with,... wait for it, your memory. My memory has never been great and now is a lot worse than that. Now, I think one of the benefits of playing music is exercising my memory. I hope it's good for my brain in general, it certainly couldn't hurt.

As an example, today when registering to a internet site, I was asked as a security question, "What was the name of your 1st grade teacher?". I'm thinking, "What! who could remember that?".

I have a friend who is my age who plays in several classic rock bar bands (gigs about 3 times a week). He knows a couple hundred tunes, chords, lead, melody and lyrics by memory. That's an excellent memory.

I have another friend who is a few years older who gigs in town playing mostly jazz standards. He knows several hundred tunes by memory... chords and melody. That's a good memory but not as impressive as the classic rock guy. I think it's harder to remember lyrics than chords and melody. Remembering chords and melody can get an assist by your "ear memory" (whatever that is, just made the term up, but it definitely is a thing). Remembering lyrics is a horse of another color, I think that is much harder, at least for me.

I don't think it's discussed much, many musicians have excellent memory, at least when it comes to music. Perhaps that is one of the keys to being a good musician.

[mrcee]

I think my memory is good but I'm weak with remembering lyrics. I can be a fair singer at times but could never do it even as a serious hobby because of this. But I'm not interested in lyrics so maybe that's at the root of it. I know people with terrible memories that remember certain things with absolute clarity if it fits something important to them or supports some selfish belief system they may have. So it seems that memory can be selective.

[sgosnell]

I'll be 70 very soon, and I have no issues playing. I have some minor arthritis in my hands, but it's not bad enough to really be a problem. Warming my hands in warm water helps, as they get a little stiff when cold. But otherwise I have no physical problems with playing. I'm not sure I'd want to play Freddie Green's guitar, so I keep my action very low and have no pain. I'm playing a lot more now than I ever have, because work kept me away from it, being away from home more than half the time, and unable to take an instrument with me. Since retirement, my collection has grown as has my time available for playing. I do sometimes go into a room and wonder what I came in for, but that doesn't seem uncommon. Does it?

[goldenwave77]

+1 on "warming the hands" in hot water.

Also, a nylon string cross-over guitar has a different sound but is easy to play with its low string tension.