Practice Time: Hands on the guitar vs hands on the computer

**henryrobinett** · 06-05-2015, 02:51 PM

There are negative aspects to some forms of obsession. I don't THINK I've had those. I live life and partake in my family and do vacations and have other interests. I've just always been organized. I've treated it like a job. I booked my time. I punched the clock. I figured and assumed it was my responsibility. I figured being a musician was a big deal. I never had a lot of respect for those guys who play around and live loose. Guys who play and do drugs, womanize and lived like life was a constant party because "I'm a musician." I thought of being a musician as meaning you respected yourself and worked hard even when many in society didn't.

So I worked hard to feel good about MYSELF. Less to prove anything to anyone else. But of course, there's that too.

**Jonah** · 06-05-2015, 03:31 PM

Obsession is part of art if we consider it as spritual tool...

that's why I talked about choices...

choosing is very human.

you can choose to do this or that... but you cannot choose obsessions.. it's those who obsess - they choose you

But as Ingmar Bergan said: I am obsessed with plenty of demons but I learnt to make them work for my benifit...

TH · 06-05-2015, 10:00 PM

Maybe obsession, addiction, endorphin possession all have a role in why we do things, how we willingly come to change our routines to favour activities that give us a rush. Maybe that's why watching music on YouTube clips can be a ready surrogate for the feeling of being in the driver's seat. Or maybe many people don't connect those scales with anything that actually gives a feeling of joy.

It was mentioned by pushkar000 early on in this discussion that jazz is a community activity. I think he's on to something there. Having some kind of feedback, some kind of reward, some kind of metric for one's hard work could be really important. I wonder how difficult it is to find others to work with at the entry level. I know that there's a huge difference in running scales because you think your teacher thinks you should and hearing your playing, even during practicing, as something you would be sharing with others.

Heh, now I'm thinking of a circle of guitar owners sitting in a circle, a table of cookies and a coffee machine at the end of the room. "Hello. My name is ****** and I can't practice." and then after the introductions, we all play a tune. That'd work.
It really should be easier to do something this simple. Why can't Guitar Center have a practice night?

Just thinking...
David

**henryrobinett** · 06-05-2015, 10:10 PM

The question might as well be why do some people choose to excel? Why is it important to be competent? Why do some people want to be among the best? And is there something wrong with that? It could be. But not necessarily. When is competition harmful? If you try and destroy your competition or you can't acknowledge them, or have delusions? And who is to say you're delusional? Some psychiatric numbskull who doesn't know anything about guitar, jazz, music or the given profession?

No. You know. If it's unhealthy you will suffer the consequences eventually.

TH · 06-05-2015, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

The question might as well be why do some people choose to excel? Why is it important to be competent? Why do some people want to be among the best? And U.S. There something wrong with that? It could be. But not necessarily. When is competition harmful? If you try and destroy your competition or you can acknowledge them, or have delusions? And who is to say you're delusional? Some psychiatric numbskull who doesn't know anything about guitar, jazz, music or the given profession?

No. You know. If it's unhealthy you will suffer the consequences eventually.

And maybe there's no place in our lives of routine for autonomous sources of artistic accomplishment and the joy that comes from that. Not even being the best, necessarily. I count among my friends some of the acknowledged best in the field, and y'know something I've noticed? They honestly never counted "being the best in the world" as an aspiration. I honestly think it was finding the joy of doing something soully their own, that they could pour themselves into and call their own. They found a true love in something that was as close as an instrument in their hands. They are not geniuses or natural born guitar Gods, they just found the connexion with something they made.
But to the uninspired, unmotivated and unapplied outsider, that life can appear jealously obsessive-or worse: unattainable. To the starved, a simple balanced meal can be called gluttony.

If music be the food of love, play on -Shakespeare.

Take away the label, close the DSM-5, suspend the speculation and stop talking somebody else's accomplishments. There's music to be made.
David

**henryrobinett** · 06-05-2015, 11:23 PM

Very well said. I will add that few people will ever admit their secret desire to be the best. That's the little voice inside that urges them on. Those words that must never be spoken, but those words that push you. And then you change or justify, knowing that there can never be a best. Learning that as soon as u try to be the best that puts every other as a hostile contender to the throne. You can't hear others because you're in a contest. Then you realize how silly it is so you adjust and readjust your goals into more manageable and realistic ones.

**henryrobinett** · 06-06-2015, 01:54 AM

Lol. Well in just thinking I can only know myself and extrapolate from there. Do I have an obsessive personality? No. Have I obsessed on a couple of things in my life for a time? Yes, I suppose. My wife. A few women for a time before and music of course. But I'm not even sure that was obsession. Maybe it was a lifelong pronounced work ethic. But the word itself has taken on psychiatric definitions which may or may not be germane or accurate as to what in referring to.

I believe one is or can be in control. Obsession is not an autonomous response mechanism. Music does not choose the person. The person or child chooses art. He is drawn to it. He falls in love with it. He finds a passion. He decides to do it. At some point, perhaps from the opinion of others who don't, he does it "obsessively." He excels. He good. He's brilliant. He's criticized by envious toads. He works harder.

He finds this obsession. A being creates obsession after all. Remember obsess is only a verb.

It's what a person does.

TH · 06-06-2015, 07:30 AM

50 words for snow. One word as Obsession. Perhaps there's a semantic issue here. Babel was a deeper curse than we would ever really know. And how many of the distinctions of definition actually keep us from realizing meaning? Ha, I wonder if Wittgenstein or Saussaure ever found comfort in making music.
David

**matt.guitarteacher** · 06-06-2015, 08:13 AM

Talking to non-musicians, I always hear the phrase "I wish I had your gift". Kind of insulting really because it implies that it's not about all the work that's been put in, but just something you "receive". On the contrary, I think the real "gift" is just the love of playing. I kind of HAVE to play.

I understand it's a choice, but I never had to MAKE myself practice the way others think that maybe they should do. It's usually more like pulling myself away from playing to do "real-life" things.

I wouldn't know re. gear obsessions etc. , but I would imagine it's just easier to obsess over something more concrete, tangible, doable , than to actually go into the practice room if it's not your natural space.

I would imagine modern technology just makes it a little more evident . Maybe just amplifies the bell curve slightly. For real musicians, I think the practice room (or playing with others or whatever) IS the obsession.

TH · 06-06-2015, 09:00 AM

To a player, practice is satisfaction. It's the act of learning to love playing. If you never break the surface, it's a chore. Maybe that's the issue.
Is the constant craving for satisfaction an obsession? Is love an obsession? You bet
David

**matt.guitarteacher** · 06-06-2015, 12:12 PM

Yeah. I don't teach on the level you guys do. A lot of beginners. The kind of motivation to put yourself away with an instrument, paint brush, or whatever for hours at a time is much rarer in the general population than I would think you'd find on a forum of jazz players.

I do a lot of talking to private students about practice mindset etc. Adult students are the most difficult in terms of mindset.

I think most people have weird assumptions about things like steady gradual progress...., picking up where you left off.... , working in a real regimented analytical way etc. that aren't always practical.

The mind of the practicing artist is a unique thing. It's not as quantifiable and measurable as a lot of other things which are easier to sell as a book or DVD. That's probably cynical, but I think there's some truth there as well. Things like scales in every position and chords etc. are just easier to get a handle on regardless of where you're at. I'm sure it's the same with YouTube "research", gear etc.

**pamosmusic** · 06-06-2015, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

I do a lot of talking to private students about practice mindset etc. Adult students are the most difficult in terms of mindset.

I wasn't going to say it but - yea. Bear in mind that this is coming from a young whippersnapper but it's VERY difficult for people to be beginners at something after they've been conditioned as high achievers. Generally the more accomplished an adult beginner is in other areas of their life the harder it is for them to accept that they're starting at zero (or close to it or whatever) with a guitar. The tendency is to spend time doing the things theyre exceptional at - reading, researching, thinking critically, analyzing the situation, etc to make their practice as efficient as possible **when they get to it**

young beginners don't have the same problem all the time. I started when I was fourteen ... Most fourteen year olds suck at just about everything so sucking at guitar for a while is no biggie as long as there's some kind of slow progress or something to show for the effort. Even starting young though - by that point I was accustomed to A's in school and being good at sports and stuff so it was (is) hard for me to take myself back to zero on something. Same is still true when I start working on new material that's not there.

these are just observations and are by no means set in stone. Tons of adults are totally down to pick up new stuff. It has more to do with being conditioned to expect proficiency when you do something. Adults are just a little more likely to fall into that category.

TH · 06-06-2015, 01:37 PM

Young guitarists approach the instrument believing that they can and will be that guitar god. Adults have been living their lives getting to know their limits and separating the fantastic accomplishments of gods from the mundane and arduous task of being adults. Unfortunately the more you come to worship guitar gods and learning you do not possess super powers, the more one learns to feel unworthy. Imagination grows with practice. Possibility clarifies persistence. Adults can become experts at limits. Tough handicap in a new skill.
David

**princeplanet** · 06-07-2015, 11:38 AM

Practice vs reading threads on this Forum? I don't wanna choose, so I do both, and yes, sometimes at the same time !

..... I thought all you guys do that as well, otherwise, how the hell would we find time to practice?

**lessofapaul** · 06-07-2015, 05:13 PM

IMHO there are three things to practice when one studies an instrument; timing, technique and tone. All have to be practiced equally for one to be considered "good". We all know that guy who has a $5000 guitar, a $4000 amp, $75 cables, $56 strings, and a $37 pick; yet he can't play "happy birthday" to save his life.
Equipment is only half of the tone equation and its the only easy part of playing.
So that is why people spend HOURS scouring craigslist for that missing piece in their equation. Sometimes getting something new can really encouraging practice, but mostly its short lived.