"Play Me Something On The Guitar" - What Do You Play?

**goldenwave77** · 12-31-2016, 12:59 PM

Isn't it funny, or ironic? The German club owner who had them working long hours, and popping uppers, in the end created a really good pop band.

Then it turned out that Lennon and McCartney could write material of their own...add in some significant "image" bonus points---the whole Liverpudlian, "scowser", brash outsider image....and a sense of presence in public events--which Brian Epstein harnessed, some monstrous demographic possibilities (large numbers of young people, w/ more money to spend than ever before in history), and we have the makings of the most popular music act in history.

And what did the German club owner get out of this?....nothing, nada, zilch.

Maybe if he'd treated them better---but wait, they might not have become any good, if he was a laid-back kind of guy...letting them play an hr. a night.

Maybe there is something to "tough love"?!

**mrcee** · 12-31-2016, 01:01 PM

Ipanema is a good song to pull out when asked to play something. Most on this forum would rightly think it was over played but your average civilian especially those not of the baby boomer generation tend to be only vaguely familiar with it. They'll often ask "what's the name of that song it sounds familiar." To us it might seem hackneyed and as familiar as a nursery rhyme.

I like to play Nature Boy in this situation. People these days even if they don't know it by it's name or from it's original context recognize it from some movie that was out a few years ago. Maybe Moulin Rouge.

Besame Mucho is another good one for the Latin fans. I think the Beatles did it in their Hamburg days. Most casual listeners that aren't all that steeped in jazz or are actually resistant to it can handle the latin stuff and it's hipper than Hotel Calif or a Beatles tune. For the SRV 12 bar crowd Stormy Monday's a good one and if you use the minor subs like in the Bobby Bland version it can sound uptown and jazzy.

Night in Tunisia can be good but I may or may not skip the interlude. All Blues is a crowd pleaser. So What to if the party's loosened up and can tolerate you being a little out and quartal and you can mash it up with Impressions.

In general, fairly simple tunes with a distinctive melody. I'd probably pass on Donna Lee. In any kind of performance situation it's not a good idea to play very much over your audiences head, although a little bit can show them that you're the boss. A Caribbean musician told me once that it's advantageous for the performers to be higher than the audience even if it was just 6". And always leave your audience, even if it's just one person, wanting more.

**ragman1** · 12-31-2016, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

There is that. Also this: if you can play a familiar tune in time, with a good feel, then you CAN play.

That's just it, they love familiar tunes :-)

But only for encores, otherwise you degrade the performance. Anybody can play old faves and get the audience on their side but that's for pubs, not serious musicians and musicianship.

**lawson-stone** · 12-31-2016, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

That's just it, they love familiar tunes :-)

But only for encores, otherwise you degrade the performance. Anybody can play old faves and get the audience on their side but that's for pubs, not serious musicians and musicianship.

Why?

The jazz greats of previous generations worked with the popular tunes, the tin-pan alley songs, the broadway musicals, of their era. Were they not serious musicians? Was that not serious musicianship?

I also don't know if "anybody can play old faves and get the audience on their side" either. I've seen some faves butchered pretty badly.

And what's really wrong with an audience on your side?

I guess as long as a musician does not complain about not getting gigs, or not making any money, or not being listened to, they can be indifferent or scornful of audiences.

The underlying issue seems, to me, to be whether music is mainly about the player and his/her self-realization, or about a player communicating with an audience to delight, enlighten, and move them.

**mrcee** · 12-31-2016, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

That's just it, they love familiar tunes :-)

But only for encores, otherwise you degrade the performance. Anybody can play old faves and get the audience on their side but that's for pubs, not serious musicians and musicianship.

You're talking about gigs right? and not just the random person maybe at a party that wants to hear you "play something".

There's old faves and then there's old faves. If I had a good gig at a good club with a band that was well rehearsed I wouldn't play too much material like ATTYA, Autumn Leaves, Blue Bossa or All of Me. I'd go a little higher on the food chain and maybe do more stuff like Recordame, You Don't Know What Love Is, Ladybird or 4 on 6 or Epistrophy. One purpose of the artist is to be ahead and above the audience. But sure if it's an old folks home or church picnic pull tunes out of the Jeepers Creepers bag. And actually I've been working on the Jeepers Creepers melody over the Giant Steps changes. Seriously.

And speaking of "previous generations" this is 2017 a Space Odyssey. Jeepers Creepers and the Yellow Submarine ain't gettin' it.

**destinytot** · 12-31-2016, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

The underlying issue seems, to me, to be whether music is mainly about the player and his/her self-realization, or about a player communicating with an audience to delight, enlighten, and move them.

Are those two things necessarily mutually exclusive? Can't the music be about both - and perhaps about more, besides?

And isn't there some kind of 'continuum' as far as 'connection with the audience' goes? Being agreeable is one thing, playing the fool quite another - and I daresay indifference and scorn have proper places, too.

I think there's a point beyond which 'jazz' stops being a spectator sport and becomes an exploration; I'd go so far as to say that listening to 'jazz' can be a transcendental experience.

Participation - active listening - is voluntary, and it requires a level of procedural knowledge. As Earth, Wind & Fire put it: "If you can't understand me, it's your fault."

**lawson-stone** · 12-31-2016, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Are those two things necessarily mutually exclusive? Can't the music be about both - and perhaps about more, besides?

And isn't there some kind of 'continuum' as far as 'connection with the audience' goes? Being agreeable is one thing, playing the fool quite another - and I daresay indifference and scorn have proper places, too.

I think there's a point beyond which 'jazz' stops being a spectator sport and becomes an exploration; I'd go so far as to say that listening to 'jazz' can be a transcendental experience.

Participation - active listening - is voluntary, and it requires a level of procedural knowledge. As Earth, Wind & Fire put it: "If you can't understand me, it's your fault."

I don't think they are at all, as should be plain from all my previous posts on this thread. But when somebody else put up the contrast between what is really "musical" vs. pleasing the audience, they manifested that split themselves. I think I can be equally "musical" playing my own favorite material, that maybe nobody else cares about, or playing something pretty simple to please and even instruct my audience. I think it is both, but some on this thread pitched it as though it had to be a choice.

I do think that I keep playing "my" favorite tunes and styles, and the audience hates it, it's unwise to assume the audience are just philistines who can't see my genius. As the performer, I hope I'm in a position to meet them where they are taste-wise and select tunes that will delight them and satisfy me at the same time.

**lawson-stone** · 12-31-2016, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Are those two things necessarily mutually exclusive? Can't the music be about both - and perhaps about more, besides?

And isn't there some kind of 'continuum' as far as 'connection with the audience' goes? Being agreeable is one thing, playing the fool quite another - and I daresay indifference and scorn have proper places, too.

I think there's a point beyond which 'jazz' stops being a spectator sport and becomes an exploration; I'd go so far as to say that listening to 'jazz' can be a transcendental experience.

Participation - active listening - is voluntary, and it requires a level of procedural knowledge. As Earth, Wind & Fire put it: "If you can't understand me, it's your fault."

It's your last sentence I take issue with.

In jazz, we need NEW LISTENERS and NEW FANS (yes, I'm raising my voice).

For this music to remain influential, we have to be a little bit evangelistic. To do that, we can't blame audiences for ignorance of a type of music performed by people who blame them for not liking it!

If we are going to inspire new audiences on a scale sufficient to keep this music economically viable, so lots of players can make a living doing this, we absolutely have to stop putting down audiences and start learning to MEET them where they are and MOVE them to a place where they will be more delighted by a wider range of music.

This won't happen on the philosophy of "If you can't understand me, it's your fault." We have to attract, engage, inspire, instruct... and to do that, we really have to respect and care for those who hear our music, however shallow we might think their tastes are.

**destinytot** · 12-31-2016, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

For this music to remain influential, we have to be a little bit evangelistic. To do that, we can't blame audiences for ignorance of a type of music performed by people who blame them for not liking it!

I see your point, and I think I agree - as far as talking up the art form.

But I don't think blame comes into it; I think 'benign neglect' covers it for me. That, and a combination of 'trust' and 'hope' - a bit like Little Bo Peep.

**lawson-stone** · 12-31-2016, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

I see your point, and I think I agree - as far as talking up the art form.

But I don't think blame comes into it; I think 'benign neglect' covers it for me. That, and a combination of 'trust' and 'hope' - a bit like Little Bo Peep.

I hear that too. I guess being a teacher and wanting to turn people on to my subject has made me in part, an advocate for the students, who, I have found, will not respond to me looking down on them or scorning them, but who will respond to my respect and connection with whatever they do know, and turning that into a path to them learning more.

Wouldn't it be great if jazz once again became the default musical entertainment in our respective cultures? I mean, turn on AM radio and have a realistic hope of some jazz coming over.

**lawson-stone** · 12-31-2016, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

I see your point, and I think I agree - as far as talking up the art form.

But I don't think blame comes into it; I think 'benign neglect' covers it for me. That, and a combination of 'trust' and 'hope' - a bit like Little Bo Peep.

My reference to "blame" came from your quote from EW&F referring to "fault." that sentence summarizes for me why I actually am not optimistic about jazz ever being more than a niche music. We think others just aren't smart enough or engaged enough to "get" our music.

I hope I'm wrong!

**ragman1** · 12-31-2016, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by mrcee

I wouldn't play too much material like ATTYA, Autumn Leaves, Blue Bossa or All of Me. I'd go a little higher on the food chain and maybe do more stuff like Recordame, You Don't Know What Love Is, Ladybird or 4 on 6 or Epistrophy. One purpose of the artist is to be ahead and above the audience.

Exactly - and then play I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles at the end :-)

**ragman1** · 12-31-2016, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

I don't think it's about not being 'smart' enough. But it may be about not being 'engaged' enough - in the sense of being a committed listener.

Quite. Jazz isn't for a lot of folks any more than finger-in-the-ear folk is. Just the way it is.

**destinytot** · 01-01-2017, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

In jazz, we need NEW LISTENERS and NEW FANS (yes, I'm raising my voice).

For this music to remain influential, we have to be a little bit evangelistic.

Here's what bothers me about the above idea: being 'a little bit evangelistic' seems like becoming 'fishers of fans'.

And unless the invitation to 'play something' - to play 'jazz' - is to be taken as an opportunity to let the merits of this music speak for themselves, 'being a little bit evangelistic' also seems to me like a 'red herring'.

Because playing 'jazz' is what touches, moves, engages and inspires others; and experiencing 'jazz' is what unifies people.

No need for the player to provide explanatory footnotes; playing 'jazz' is what I think the player should be concerned with.

Just as the farmer should be concerned with following the steps of the agricultural cycle, so the player should be concerned with the constant search for musical overtones in the here-and-now - and not emotional ones as a desirable future outcome.

Moreover, 'jazz' subordinates players and listeners alike. And I think it's detrimental to the player's development to seek to touch, move, engage and inspire others through talking about 'jazz' at the expense of playing it; because this subordinates the player to the approval of listeners - who are onlookers.

Talking about 'jazz'can be in the interest of the player who knows whereof they speak - if, that is, they're talking about their own work. And unless they've achieved a formidable level of artistic expression, their authority to represent 'jazz' needs to be questioned.

Artists are rare, singular voices - individuals. I'd rather see more of these than 'NEW LISTENERS and NEW FANS' for 'jazz' - but the slightest indication of anything even remotely 'evangelistic' raises hackles.

**Sam Sherry** · 01-01-2017, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by mooncef

How do you guys (intermediates/advanced beginners) deal with the casual "play me something man !"

Lotta smart people here are over-thinking this question. There is only one answer and it is a beautiful one:

**destinytot** · 01-01-2017, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Lotta smart people here are over-thinking this question. There is only one answer and it is a beautiful one:

Or this one:

Better still:

**Larry Feldman** · 01-01-2017, 08:32 PM

Hmm, I'd agree up to a point. But even Keith Jarrett decided to play standards again because people knew the songs more. Otherwise he wouldn't have bothered, and he was taking the music to another place with that trio

**ronjazz** · 01-01-2017, 08:40 PM

Play what you can play well. If they know it, great, if they don't, they'll like it anyway.

Unless, of course, you suck.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 01-01-2017, 09:29 PM

In addition to some kind of solo guitar /chord melody type thing, just playing a bop head might be cool for the OP'S "playing for a shredder" type moment. Like a chord melody, it kind of falls under the "things you should probably know anyway" category as well. A lot of people who maybe think they know what jazz sounds like aren't as familiar with Bop.

**NSJ** · 01-01-2017, 10:17 PM

I think that I have come to a point in my development that, if someone were to say, "play something", I could probably pick up the guitar and with no preconceived notions of anything and without thinking , Completely and freely play something on a solo basis that the layperson may perceive to be a type of pianistic style guitar playing. It would not be pro level by any means and will never remotely approach Kōln Concert level like EVER, but the days of fumbling and stumbling and thinking about what to do at any given moment are receding into the background. Finally . All that means is I spent a lot of time learning the instrument or trying to with great intent .

Naturally, it would not be Good enough for me. And I have this quirky thing where I can play freely better than I can play on tunes. But that is because I finally understood that I did not know the tune well enough, I only kind of knew it. I think when you really know a tune inside and out, that's most of the battle right there.

So, it's a two-part endeavor: learning the instrument inside and out, learning tunes inside and out. I always try to play a lot of tunes, but the reason I always forget them is that I never learned them inside and out. That is the next step .

**don_oz** · 01-03-2017, 01:43 PM

a 12 bar blues wouldn't go amiss either.

Oz

**Marcus Klossek** · 01-07-2017, 02:51 PM

To me, a Chet Atkins tune is always working in a "play me something" situation. :-)
If you can handle that hybrid picking thing a song like Mr. Sandman is cool
with a steady rhythm, chords and a nice melody on top, doable alone with one guitar.

**Hep To The Jive** · 01-07-2017, 04:35 PM

I observe a funny thing: no matter what and where you play, some smart ass always ask you "to play some Slayer" .

Just happened to me on NYE gig again: big party with dignitaries, classy dressed guests, and we are playing swing/NOLA jazz... Sure enough a coupla visibly buzzed young guys staying right in front, watching me, and when we done, the speech about to start, one is like "hey you gotta play some Slayer!" I actually did (because I'm prepared by now

, for fun and giggles. My bandmates cursed me out quick too.

Learn some Slayer dude, the only thing that shuts them up, trust me!

**grahambop** · 01-08-2017, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

I observe a funny thing: no matter what and where you play, some smart ass always ask you "to play some Slayer" .

Just happened to me on NYE gig again: big party with dignitaries, classy dressed guests, and we are playing swing/NOLA jazz... Sure enough a coupla visibly buzzed young guys staying right in front, watching me, and when we done, the speech about to start, one is like "hey you gotta play some Slayer!" I actually did (because I'm prepared by now

, for fun and giggles. My bandmates cursed me out quick too.

Learn some Slayer dude, the only thing that shuts them up, trust me!

You can always jazz up a Beatles tune so a metal tune might work too:

**Tomcat** · 01-09-2017, 08:44 AM

real challenge is to improvise music on the spot in a way to keep listeners' attention. I find it useful to include this in my practice routine. Small pieces , about a minute is enough. Starting with well known head is also good.
If you are really good at it you improvise a concert in Koln or Bregenz