View Poll Results: Art Blakey said, “Opinions are like assholes, everyone’s got one.” - Do you have one?
- Voters
- 20. You may not vote on this poll
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Yes, but I'd rather keep it to my self
4 20.00% -
Yes, and I will be expressing it in this post
6 30.00% -
Wait, which one do you mean? An asshole or an opinion?
5 25.00% -
Who is this Art Blakey fella'? He sounds strange.
5 25.00%
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Hi all,
Originally Posted by andihopkins
he shows to the audience (a masterclass perhaps) all the differents modes
of the different scales, with their names and possible usage. He seems to
have a very good knowing about harmony and theory.
As for Robert Conti, I've got a book from him and indeed he doesn't give
too much theory stuff but he uses constantly the cycle of fourth and the
"symetry" deriving from the diminished scale (i.e. you can report each kind
of chord position 3 frets away up or down).
So I guess even if they didn't practice exercises or too much theory,
I guess they have some under belt and use it maybe unconsciously ?
Anyway I agree totally it is possible to play without it, as Django, Wes,
and a lot of present gypsy players do.
For Django and Wes, I don't know, it seems they were blessed ! But both
of them were known to be very self-critical and hard at work (is it English
correct ?), so nothing happens without work, as we all know
Have swing
Guelda
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12-17-2008 09:19 AM
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Yep, everybody's got one. Here's mine.
I've played music for almost as long I can remember (50+ years). It took a long time to come to terms with what "jazz" was anyway, compared to blues, rock, pop and >gasp< classical.
I've learned theory every step of the way, except I didn't realize it was theory. I just learned that some things work better than others. I gone through books and videos and picked up something from each of them, but in the final analysis, they just reminded me of what I already knew.
Master the basics (chords, scales, rhythm), master the instrument, and play the music. Then write your own book.
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The football coach at my high school used a modified expression of that.
"Opinions are like as*holes. Everybody has one and they all stink."
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Originally Posted by Drumbler
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Having taught various technical subjects for many years, I have come to the conclusion that there is no single method/explanation that conveys a concept to the entire audience. If everyone gets it immediately then it was very rudimentary. The point of this being is that each of us assimilates information differently and at different rates. To approach jazz or for that matter music in general and advocate a single methodology such as book, audio or video, teacher, self taught or Karmic inspiration is naive. How one learns to hear major, minor, diminished, augmented or altered dominant intervals can vary widely. Hearing itself varies between individuals and changes over time and that affects how we interpret what we hear and attempt to emulate. I have seen some folks hear a complex piece for the first time and immediately be able to play it back - the best of these have all been piano players. Some people can intuitively connect the dots without "knowing" the theory, they can't explain what it is that they just did, but their music demonstrates that they have mastered the theory. We also have preferences to methods of learning, some like to work alone, others with a teacher and others with a group. My two cents - do whatever it takes to digest the material and enjoy it. If you aren't progressing try something else, but keep trying.
tom
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I'll add some more thoughts to this thread: I think it's really good to have a ton of books in different musical styles sitting around. Yesterday, I picked up a book of Flamenco solos I have and enjoyed playing through a few songs. If I didn't have that book, I wouldn't have done it, and I would have missed an opportunity to hear some different sounds for a change. Diversity is important.
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On Musical learning
What does it mean to "learn something" musically, and how does this happen?
Becoming a musician is a process of psycho-acoustical-technical (and physical) training-- of training our minds (our CNS) to hear, and our bodies to be able to do (technique-wise).
What is it not? It is NOT the acquisition of purely mental knowledge (I know this mode or that scale has these notes, etc.): we have to hear these differences, and be able to play them.
(Side note: "Active" learning is a LOT more effective than passive learning. At Harvard Law, everyone took Civil Procedure 1st yr., required course, 600-700 pp. casebook. There was a former student who, with others, constructed detailed outlines, and sold these commercially in every legal bookstore in the country. (Steve Emanuel's "Outline For Civil Procedure", $24.95 back in 1982, a very nice business for him), about 200 pp. long, of dense, but well-organized single space text. In fact, Steve Emanuel had the very same Professor I had. So, all of us in our section,--170 of us, went out and bought their Emanuel's pre-prepared outline. Guess what, we didn't all ace Civil Procedure. We found out that passive learning was not all that effective. In another course (Torts), the professor had never taught the subject before. We were on our own...and we had to do our own outlines. It took me forever to put together-never enough hrs. in the day, but in the end, I learned the material MUCH better for having done this myself...like Bach re-copying musical scores, that he had already.)
Any music book only works insofar as we "work it" into our playing...this takes time. Jack Z. had a great tip when he said if you can't play something all over the fretboard, you don't know it (he's right)...so take a lick, or melody, repeat it everywhere...starting on this finger, that finger, using slides or not...eventually we "get it under our fingers", and hopefully have it in our minds, by this time....this is active learning.
When Conti says the "real action" is "under the fingers", he is right. His approach emphasizes breaking it down physically, repeat it to hear it, and do it...don't memorize intellectually....keep playing and you'll have it "under your fingers"...and you will, or can, learn it, theory-wise as well. You have to be able to play it...but you're also able to understand it. I avoided, didn't take on chord melody for years...too much information...too many choices, and I floundered. Conti's approach (for this melody note for this type of chord, play this grip) helped me to "get airborne"...in the end, I'll supplement it with other stuff, and approaches. I can take on Barry Galbraith's stuff, and am working through the ebook from this site, which lays out and develops systematically, the technique and application of chord melody stuff (also building arrangements and finger-style).
skill isolation and reintegration: Breaking things down is effective to understand, and to drill...but physically, technique TAKES TIME...A friend of mine is a serious classical gtr. hobbyist...and he said to me, the only question is--"Are you better today than you were yesterday?".
So, if a book sits on the shelf...no learning can take place. If we read the book, little learning takes place. If we pick up the book, read it, and then work it into our playing, and maybe come up with our exercises, variations, etc., we'll learn it better.Last edited by goldenwave77; 12-30-2016 at 09:51 AM.
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So, if a book sits on the shelf...no learning can take place. If we read the book, little learning takes place. If we pick up the book, read it, and then work it into our playing, and maybe come up with our exercises, variations, etc., we'll learn it better.
He had an expression that he would repeat periodically re; book learning:
"For every page that you read, you should write 10 of your own".
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Yes ,
Study with books and teachers to get the basic scales and arps
there's only a few notes and chords anyway
its not infinite ....it is very do-able to learn them
But as soon as you can
start to teach yourself
pick a song and work it out by ear ,trial and error , painful at first !
then another song .... a bit easier
then another song .... easier
you get better at hearing the changes
thats it
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Ever wonder how much of the alleged sad state of music (another thread topic) may be the natural result of less learning, playing, and composing by ear, now that we have a generation or so of "music book learnt" people attempting to make music?
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When does academia ever improve any of the arts???
One head, two cabs.
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