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I have the opportunity to take lessons with a good jazz teacher - but for years I've struggled with pain.
I get the bad burning and muscle adhesions on the top of my forearm - they begin to affect my ability to use my fingers.
I also have deqervains in my fretting hand/wrist...
Ive done the guitar principles and gone to docs etc - I just cant figure it out. I use as light a string as I can and lower action... I swear Im not pushing hard. What could it be?
I dont warm up as much as I should for one...
You guys ever deal with this?
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05-30-2012 08:22 PM
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There are only a a couple music injury doctors I've heard of you might be lucky if one in your area, if not try a sports injury doctor they deal with similar issues.
Good luck.
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[quote=achase4u;230064 I swear Im not pushing hard. What could it be?
[/quote]
You could be so caught up in playing, you may be fretting harder than you think. Keep in mind, you are pressing the strings against the frets, not the fingerboard.
A teacher I had years ago suggested this exercise when I was fretting harder than needed: play a scale fretting as lightly as possible. Press just behind the fret and TRY to make it buzz. You will be surprised how light a touch you need for a clean tone.
You mentioned that you do not do any warm ups, but try to play a scale slowly using this light touch technique. It may solve the issue.
Good luck and clean tones!Last edited by Alder Statesman; 05-30-2012 at 10:29 PM. Reason: typos, always typos
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Do you always maintain a straight wrist in your fretting hand? Because if not and you often have a bent wrist, then my money is on that being part of the problem.
I believe the Principles advocate a straight wrist, but I can't remember for sure.
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Hey guys -
I will try vigilantly warming up.
I will try the "make it buzz" scales. The single note stuff I'm pretty good at being light, but for whatever reason, chording kills me. Though something about lifting the fingers away from the frets must be hurting my extensor muscles...
I try to keep a straight wrist, but something about some of those chords are just near impossible to do...
I really was in pain Saturday night - I asked my teacher to show me how to play his version of Tequila which I love - well, theres some parts that are a stretch. My thumb seems to have to bend and wrist, too - I dunno how its possible to play!
Can you really comp all these jazz chords without much pressure and with a straight wrist?
Heres my teacher playing Tequila
When he goes from the A7 position with the top A being the melody, then moves to the G7 same shape, but extends up to play the B with the pinky while holding that G7 - its brutal on me.
In fact - I noticed any time I have to reach fingers or spread them, my extensors just hurt.
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Can you guys tell me what you feel in your fretting arm and hand when you play a chord? Like whats relaxed and whats using pressure? Fingers, hand etc?
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You're right, look at classic guitar posture the neck is up the the forearm and wrist are straight up to the neck. In general any drastic bends are bad.
Originally Posted by coolvinny
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All I can say is that I don't have callouses even though I average approximately 3 hours a day of practice (and my time is roughly split between my solid body with 11 flatwounds and my acoustic with 13 bronze strings). I used to have callouses, but I also used to have pain in my arms. Now I have no callouses and no pain. I'm thinking there is a connection. Originally Posted by achase4u
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+1 Originally Posted by Archtop Bill
Many, if not most of us, started out with cheap guitars that were hard to play and developed muscle memory that still has us pressing too hard years later.
Several years ago, I had a conversation with Norman Blake in which he told me that he has tall frets installed on all his guitars. He said that he doesn't want to feel any wood under his fingers when he frets. He has a very relaxed light touch in both hands.
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That gives me hope. Thanks guys.
Maybe this light touch is something I need and just dont realize it... I guess I'll keep trying and try to learn this jazz business!
Now - wheres the lesson that makes me play like Joe Pass :-P
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A bit late for those lessons...they started when you were about 10 years old, and they were 8 - 10 hours a day... Originally Posted by achase4u
I missed them too.
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achase4u ..can u be/or get more detailed about the pain ....Where is it ...does it come and go ...only while playing ...after playing...shoulder ,neck ,back, fingers, hand..tips of ..1 to 10...think about it...describe it ...if u want to correct it ... know it better... communicate it better...even to yourself....is it what or how your doin it....u know Henny Youngmans Joke .. a guy goes to a Doc..and says " it hurts when i do this " Doc replies " Dont Do that! " Kind of thing....
Last edited by Barret; 06-03-2012 at 08:37 AM.
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"A bit late for those lessons...they started when you were about 10 years old, and they were 8 - 10 hours a day...
I missed them too."
lol yes indeed... oh well! Cant do anything about that...
Barret -
The pain is about mid way up my forearm on top where the enxtensors are - allot of time it is up close to the elbow. It comes and goes, usually lasts after playing - and now days it is throughout the day. Key typing and other things aggravate it. Nothing is troubling my neck or shoulders - just that top of the forearm. Also sometimes that muscle between the forefinger and thumb. All of this is on the fretting hand.
Yea - unfortunately the doc's "dont do that" applies to simply playing guitar in their eyes.
One thing that might be contributing is that I cant fully relax playing with a strap - or on my right leg. When I reach for those chords where my hand has to be almost parallel with the fretboard, I think its just turning my arm upside down too much - thus an angled neck in classical position helps.
The other thing is that the thumb muscle gets weak easy - that was a problem long before this. It could be I have compensated by not using the thumb and using the arm to push somehow... I just cant quite figure it out. Right now Im just trying to play what I feel is 'insanely relaxed'
EDIT: I also had this pain just not near as bad, a few years back. I noticed I was holding my wrist concave. Keeping it really straight has to be apriority for me. Perhaps Ive been doing it too convex lately.
Its hard to keep a straight wrist. I want to curve it at times to allow the fingers nice clearance to get those chords but it just must mess my arm up.Last edited by achase4u; 06-03-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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The other pain I have is Dequarvains... its right along the thumb side of the forearm. Also from using the thumb to press. I hardly play enough notes to use the thumb but have been trying to do chords these days which require a little thumb pressure and sometimes a strange position...
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I'd recommend taking at least one week where you don't touch a guitar at all.
When you get back to it, you should warm up. Slowly. Take brakes after 20-3o min. Avoid super hard stretches, there is always more than one way of playing something on the guitar. Do what feels the best for you. I would recommend to see a specialist as well.
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OK ..gettin better ...but ..u didnt rate the pain 1-10 ..1- 20 ....are u right handed or a lefty ....do u play piano ....what kind of guitar do u play exact model ...what is the brand of strings and there gauges ..numbers 1-6st...how long do u practice ...everyday ''' what time ..the truth...do u eat before practicing .....what kind of chair do u sit in ....how high off the floor ...do u use a foot stool....have any back issues...ever?..... how old ....your weight....height.....measure the size if your fingers ...what finger exercises do u '''' what fingers do u favor ....u type???? ....how long each day ?///standard keyboard ....listen ..u have to think of anything that could be agrevating u.....and then u move to ...adjust , change...alter .....correct .....i hope this is not to much for u ....!? Barret
Last edited by Barret; 06-04-2012 at 08:47 AM.
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If you have the guitar in the right position, you can play almost anything with a straight wrist (re: your question about fretting a G with the B on top, etc). Do you use a strap and have the guitar at a 45 degree angle?
Sometimes I move my elbow/arm forward in order to still maintain a straight wrist.
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Thanks for the replies. I'll try to take that week off, then.
Pain these days is only maybe a 2 or 3 at most. Pretty constant though, and it feels like my fingers quit doing what I tell them to do after a while...
I will have to think about that stuff then, Barret...
Ive recently started playing with a strap but I use a footstool now because when the guitar is fully supported by my legs I am most relaxed.... the angle does help the left hand...
hmmmm
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I do type a fair amount but its not my job. My job doesnt hurt it much maybe a little, I make guitar pickups.
I recently bought a microsoft keyboard that is uniquely designed for comfort etc - It still doesnt feel good to type but I have to...
I play a gretsch 5120 with DR pure blues or tite fits for the softer round core - I use 11 gague - 11-50. Lowish action. On my Tele I assembled with custom made neck I use 10 DR round core or others that are 10s and softer...Last edited by achase4u; 06-05-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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a couple of things....how long have u been playing guitar...ive had different types of arm /hand pain for the first 20 years some playing and giging 10 + hours a day ....after the first 20 years that went away ...no kiding ( playin for over 50 years now and still enjoying it).....i have several guitars...( does't everyone ) one is set up for hours of comfortble pracitice...lite strings ...8-42....giging guitar a little heavier set....it takes time to develop muscles...and u need to nurture...your playing style to fit your body type ....know who u are and what your personal limits are....we all have limits.....journal your pain ..study your playing.....keep studying and adjusting ....take responsablity for the pain ..monitor it ...u can and will eventually get it under control ....good luck ...Barret
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Ive played maybe 10 years on any serious level...
Thanks for the encouragement! I need it...
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I'm sure someone has mentioned this somewhere in the forum already, but playing with a strap while sitting and practicing is key. Without a strap soreness or an injury is just waiting to happen. Getting into the perfect position to fret properly on a consistent basis is 1-2-3 with a strap. Adjust the strap so it hangs naturally in the "classical guitar position" (as close as you can). All of my wrist pain went away when I faithfully used the strap at all times (and I'm old). Buy a few straps and have them adjusted and already on ALL of your guitars at ALL times (so you don't blow off using the strap because you don't feel like getting it out, or switching it to another guitar, or just forgetting). It's so important, yet many people don't use one when sitting at home. Originally Posted by achase4u
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Like Barret I've been playing over 50yrs. About 5yrs ago after a lifetime of playing heavy strings ( La Bella 15s my favourite )
my fretting hand became swollen and extremely painful, went to the doctor ( a guitarist ) he said it was the worst case of arthritis he'd seen, I ask if there was a cure, only one he said "what's that? lighter strings! ( seriously ).... I settled for Gibson 9-46 on the LP, and 10-46 on the acoustic. I've never had as much as a twinge since. I developed a lighter touch, and can play longer and faster than I ever did. to get all the tones I need, I play through three Boss pedals a DD7-Harmonist-DS2 into a keyboard amp, or PA. As Birdsong stated a strap is essential. I hope this is helpful?......Light string are better than no strings....L..
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15s?! Holy cow! Was the guitar playing the direct cause of the arthritis? I have always used 10s on the 175, which is why I was so shocked when I started reading this forum a few years ago - seeing that people were using telegraph cables on their guitars Originally Posted by larry graves
. I can see using heavy strings to obtain certain tones during recording sessions (in small doses). But all of the time? Wow. I'm a big strong guy with big hands, and I couldn't imagine playing with strings that heavy all of the time.... my arm would fall off. I get really sore in ALL areas when I decide to play my steel string acoustic for a few hours - which has 11s. Your forearm must have been like Popeye's when you played with the 15s! 
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I use LaBella 15-56 flat wounds on my Heritage Super Eagle and I've never had a problem. The guitar has very smooth action. I play between 2 hours to 6 hours a day depending on gigs. Lighter strings just don't work for me. They sound slappy and thin. Originally Posted by BirdSong
15s?! Holy cow! Was the guitar playing the direct cause of the arthritis? I have always used 10s on the 175, which is why I was so shocked when I started reading this forum a few years ago - seeing that people were using telegraph cables on their guitars. I can see using heavy strings to obtain certain tones during recording sessions (in small doses). But all of the time? Wow. I'm a big strong guy with big hands, and I couldn't imagine playing with strings that heavy all of the time.... my arm would fall off. I get really sore in ALL areas when I decide to play my steel string acoustic for a few hours - which has 11s. Your forearm must have been like Popeye's when you played with the 15s!
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