Productive sight reading practice

[BWV]

Big believer in the idea of not practicing mistakes when it comes to learning to play something, and thinking how to apply that idea to improve my sight reading.

also, for an amateur whose goal is to get better and not to get studio gigs or whatever where I need to read something perfectly at first take, what do sight reading skills matter? Should the strategy to be able to maybe:

a) sing the melody and perhaps other lines
b) note the basic harmonic outline
c) then do a first read at as slow a tempo that I can play it without mistakes?

[nbevan3]

Good question and I am interested in the answers also

[rpjazzguitar]

I think the challenging part is to nail the rhythms. You can do that without the guitar in your hands. Just sing the rhythms. Make sure you get them right, even if that takes entering them in notation software to hear the playback.

Another issue, often glossed over, is to articulate each note as well as possible. So, you're thinking about sloppy vs precise.

Now, I know that, at first, finding the notes seems more challenging, but that part is finite. Sooner or later you'll know where the notes are.

After that, there are technical issues with fingering and picking which get involved when you try to play really fast lines.

In reading pro level big band charts, it isn't common, in my experience, to see a line that's really difficult to play, at least, once you know what it's supposed to sound like. (Amateur charts are often worse). Usually the challenge is in counting it correctly and putting the notes where they belong in time.

[Christian Miller]

- Become comfortable with making mistakes. Keep it moving. Don’t lose your place.
- Read shapes not individual notes
- Rhythm before pitch
- Also practice slowly and correctly AS WELL
- Try not to learn the music


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[Christian Miller]

Hierarchy of sight reading
1) knowing where you are
2) counting tacet bars
3) playing correct rhythms
4) pitch accuracy

I think for classical, dynamics is super important. No one wants to be playing their head off in a pianissimo passage.

Basically, the stuff that’s more prioritised on the list is the stuff that’s more likely to be very very noticeable for the whole ensemble. Coming in in the wrong place, making a car crash out of endings etc.


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[BWV]

1) knowing where you are
2) counting tacet bars
3) playing correct rhythms
4) pitch accuracy
- Become comfortable with making mistakes. Keep it moving. Don’t lose your place.
- Read shapes not individual notes
- Rhythm before pitch
- Also practice slowly and correctly AS WELL
- Try not to learn the music

for practice, think isolating each and practicing separately would be good (and some like rpjazzguitar's point on rhythm or knowing where you are in the piece) can be done without an instrument.

Disagree about the mistakes part, its true in actual ensemble situations, but to my OP, I think in practicing sight reading to improve, perhaps its best to start with what you can get correct and slowly work up from that

[Christian Miller]

for practice, think isolating each and practicing separately would be good (and some like rpjazzguitar's point on rhythm or knowing where you are in the piece) can be done without an instrument.

This is often a very good idea in practice.

Disagree about the mistakes part, its true in actual ensemble situations, but to my OP, I think in practicing sight reading to improve, perhaps its best to start with what you can get correct and slowly work up from that

Depends

In the real world you are going to find situations where you can’t read everything. Learning how to deal that is IMO part of the gig. I call it ‘sink or swim’ practice. Do your best, try to not go to pieces, keep your eye moving, keep going, don’t lose the beat.

Otoh yes you do want to read slowly at first as well. Your ‘zero mistakes’ tempo maybe agonisingly slow at first.

In the end the only way to learn to sight read is to read A LOT.

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[Irishmuso]

-Keep it moving. Don’t lose your place.

Sage advice as usual. When you're playing with other, more practised readers, you gotta keep up and know where you are in the score.

[James W]

In the end the only way to learn to sight read is to read A LOT.

This is it, y'see. To sight read a lot, you need a lot of sight-reading material. I have a couple of books intended for classical guitar sight-reading and they were good, but I got through them in under a month.

Any recommendations? I used to have William Leavitt's Modern Method for guitar, which with all three volumes together, makes for a nicely ample amount of reading practice (I should probably buy it again lol).

I do have lots of scores knocking about, including most of Haydn's and all of Mozart's and Beethoven's string quartets, which could probably be used.

[bediles]

This is it, y'see. To sight read a lot, you need a lot of sight-reading material. I have a couple of books intended for classical guitar sight-reading and they were good, but I got through them in under a month.

Any recommendations? I used to have William Leavitt's Modern Method for guitar, which with all three volumes together, makes for a nicely ample amount of reading practice (I should probably buy it again lol).

I do have lots of scores knocking about, including most of Haydn's and all of Mozart's and Beethoven's string quartets, which could probably be used.

Omnibooks? Use IMSLP to get free stuff...violin partitas, bach... prob stick w single line

[BWV]

I am currently working through this. Mostly all first position and 2-part textures, its Bach so you still find surprising passages that make it more challenging than reading similar textures from 18th/19th century lute or guitar composers.

[James W]

Omnibooks? Use IMSLP to get free stuff...violin partitas, bach... prob stick w single line

I have a (hard) copy of Bach's sonatas and partitas for solo violin. Yeah omnibooks sound good ... that's another thing I used to have, the Joe Pass Omnibook...

Actually also have a fair amount of classical guitar music e.g. lots of Sor.

[bediles]

I have a (hard) copy of Bach's sonatas and partitas for solo violin. Yeah omnibooks sound good ... that's another thing I used to have, the Joe Pass Omnibook...

Actually also have a fair amount of classical guitar music e.g. lots of Sor.

Depends on your level. Start with music you have the ability to read and play. Maybe that's taking something harder at a slower tempo or reading book one classical guit. I don't think you have to worry too much about what you read as long as you follow the steps outlined above.. don't stop, put a metronome on etc.

Even if you don't follow the prescribed steps you'll still get better at reading.

Mistakes are all part of it (to the OP)

[Christian Miller]

This is it, y'see. To sight read a lot, you need a lot of sight-reading material. I have a couple of books intended for classical guitar sight-reading and they were good, but I got through them in under a month.

Any recommendations? I used to have William Leavitt's Modern Method for guitar, which with all three volumes together, makes for a nicely ample amount of reading practice (I should probably buy it again lol).

I do have lots of scores knocking about, including most of Haydn's and all of Mozart's and Beethoven's string quartets, which could probably be used.

Adam Levy’s sight reading for jazz guitar


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[Christian Miller]

For my own practice I like
Real books
Omnibook
Jimmy Raney’s Aebersold
(For jazz)


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[pamosmusic]

For my own practice I like
Real books
Omnibook
Jimmy Raney’s Aebersold
(For jazz)


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Omnibooks especially. Classical stuff can be good for reading but if rhythm is sort of the first and most important part of the reading, it’s worth mentioning how different reading jazz rhythms can be from reading classical rhythms.

You could reading an entire Bach partita and not see a fair number of the more common jazz syncopations. And if you did see them, they’d be more likely sixteenth note equivalents

[bediles]

Just to add, if you have trouble reading rhythms, I'd work on that outside of your sight reading practice so you can chunk rhythmic cells together. That way, when you sight read the rhythmic aspect is internalized (to a point at least) so you're not searching for notes and interpreting rhythms at the same time.

You can even do a pass of just clapping or scatting the rhythms before reading.

[rpjazzguitar]

Omnibooks especially. Classical stuff can be good for reading but if rhythm is sort of the first and most important part of the reading, it’s worth mentioning how different reading jazz rhythms can be from reading classical rhythms.

You could reading an entire Bach partita and not see a fair number of the more common jazz syncopations. And if you did see them, they’d be more likely sixteenth note equivalents

Excellent point. If your goal includes reading syncopated lines like you see in just about every big band chart, then you have to practice that kind of material. As great as Bach and the Omnibook are, they don't get you there.

[rpjazzguitar]

This is it, y'see. To sight read a lot, you need a lot of sight-reading material. I have a couple of books intended for classical guitar sight-reading and they were good, but I got through them in under a month.

Any recommendations? I used to have William Leavitt's Modern Method for guitar, which with all three volumes together, makes for a nicely ample amount of reading practice (I should probably buy it again lol).

I do have lots of scores knocking about, including most of Haydn's and all of Mozart's and Beethoven's string quartets, which could probably be used.

Like everything else, it depends on your current level and your goal.

For someone who can read in the first position, say, and wants to expand, I like Rhythms Complete by Colin and Bower. Read it all, and then read it all an octave higher. I'm pretty confident that this is a good recommendation. I'm less certain about where to go next.

Maybe some Lenny Niehus books? RB heads? I've never enjoyed practicing from the Omnibook, but maybe if you use backing tracks and go slow it would be great. OTOH, it's not heavily syncopated and doesn't put you in all the keys.

If you can get into a reading band, especially where the guitar plays lines with the horns, you quickly find out if you can actually read and you have plenty of material to work on.

[pamosmusic]

Excellent point. If your goal includes reading syncopated lines like you see in just about every big band chart, then you have to practice that kind of material. As great as Bach and the Omnibook are, they don't get you there.

Omnibook isn’t bad. Probably somewhat fewer syncopations, and lots more notes, but if you did a lot of reading from it, you’d probably get what you need. Wouldn’t be terribly efficient though.

It does have the added benefit of being ridiculously low in the register, which is great practice for the 90% of big band charts where the arranger forgets to bump the guitar part up to the transposed octave.

[James W]

What's 'The Omnibook'?

I thought there were many different Omnibooks...

[rpjazzguitar]

What's 'The Omnibook'?

I thought there were many different Omnibooks...

I was referring to the Charlie Parker omnibook.

[rpjazzguitar]

Omnibook isn’t bad. Probably somewhat fewer syncopations, and lots more notes, but if you did a lot of reading from it, you’d probably get what you need. Wouldn’t be terribly efficient though.

It does have the added benefit of being ridiculously low in the register, which is great practice for the 90% of big band charts where the arranger forgets to bump the guitar part up to the transposed octave.

In many cases, I can't tell which octave the arranger meant. So I pick whatever seems to sound best. I've never once had a complaint, including when the arranger was in the room.

[pamosmusic]

I was referring to the Charlie Parker omnibook.

The OG …

… but yeah I also have Sonny Rollins, Coltrane, and Bud Powell.

My gut says the Sonny Rollins one might be good for this kind of thing. Lots more varied rhythms and syncopations.

[Christian Miller]

Bellson modern reading text for rhythm


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