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Transposing chunks of heads into different keys is a great way to learn bop lines, and it taught me how the notes relate to the chords etc. I want my value for money.
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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08-08-2023 03:39 AM
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Yea Peter... wasn't really thinking of Christian. More in the direction of guitarist getting their playing together. I think of Rich Stone (video) who was wonderful guitarist. He had technical skills and could cover all the shit many on this forum say is not what one needs to work on.... of course, those views seem to change day to day. I think Stone did work with BH...
Never really liked his phrasing... but still loved his playing etc... and he could cover.
Anyway... personally I dig players who bring more blues, jazz or swingin blues into their playing of bop tunes. And as always... rhythmic feels generally make things happen.
I generally say... you need to be able to subdivide and double time whatever tempo your playing at to be able to create great feels. Just being able to cover 8th notes usually results in that vanilla thing.
I did like that ...play bunch of heads in a row. I always like to see how many heads or phrases of heads I can get into tunes while playing... bop tunes are great. And I guess that would be transposing... but still say don't waste your time doing the 12 keys thing. Why do guitarist approach playing jazz as though they're horn players.
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Right. I think there is a lot of value in the technical practice of moving those heads around and stuff, but this is kind of the most immediately gratifying part of practicing this way. Originally Posted by Reg
If you have a few fingerings for a bebop head, you can quote it in different situations. Which is a blast.
I definitely have a strong and slightly idiosyncratic opinion about transposing. Guitarists tend to ignore transposing because they can just slide something up a fret to transpose it. And while the challenges aren’t nearly those of transposing on a piano or horn, I’m convinced it makes a difference. Wider frets, different action, different string tension against the pick or the left hand. Playing something at the third fret is different than playing it at the fourth, let alone the tenth. It’s small differences but playing at a bebop tempo, it’s more than enough to throw you off balance if you’re in a key you’re not used to.
And if you learn it in more than one position, that’s the hard part. Another key is just a matter of getting fingers used to the different spacing etc.
Anyway … like I said. Maybe that’s an idiosyncratic position, and folks can feel differently about it.
As for the part about folks still getting it together, I guess that’s fair. But I’d just suggest small bites. I think the transposing at all is more important than it being the whole head. I have people the whole head in the original key, in a fingering that makes sense, and then transpose a cool part into other positions and keys. The first bar of Au Privave or Billies Bounce, for example, are great examples of bebop vocabulary that are usually pretty easy for a student to dissect and understand what’s going on.
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There’s something about taking a bit of music and transposing it to several keys that makes me learn it better.
I want to get my moneys worth as I say. If I’ve learned these pieces of music I want to mine them for useful elements. I do the same with Bach.
I don’t generally do it into all twelve, maybe just four keys around the cycle is enough to get the lay of the land. So it’s not really like a horn or piano. OTOH playing it up and down the octave is important too. That’s another area where the guitar really isn’t like a horn or piano.
Obviously this naturally puts the thing into different areas of the neck.
(If you are of the school that hates any high positions on the bottom strings, more keys might be good actually.)
Do it by ear first, then relate to the underlying harmony etc. it’s good stuff.
You could always learn more stuff I suppose and have a similar long term outcome. I’ve heard advice for and against transposition from great players to know it probably doesn’t matter what side of the fence you sit on. I go through phases
if it feels like a challenge it’s probably good practice.
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This is kind of what I do with most tunes. The bop heads are a heavier technical lift so I learn them in different positions, and there’s no real mental lift to the transposition. Just filling in those small technical gaps. But with other tunes, I learn them in the original key, and then take them through the cycle. Just every time I shift gears in what I’m practicing, I switch keys too. Usually only get through a handful, but it’s good to get myself thinking about the actual changes rather than memorizing chord symbols if that makes sense as a distinction. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Here's a few that I enjoy playing along with many of the ones already mentioned:
Lennie's Pennies - Lennie Tristano
Subconscious Lee - Lee Konitz
Marionette - Billie Bauer
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Thought it was strange that I hadn't seen Cherokee mentioned yet, then I remembered how simple the head is. A bop tune with a cool head...
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Cherokee wasn't a bop tune originally. And it was written by a bloke from my hometown, which is pretty far from 52nd Street haha. That said, he did end up New York by the time he recorded this one... Originally Posted by Blackguard53
I love this recording and arrangement... check out the cheeky little guitar break.
This version is much better known, and is probably the one Bird knew. Bit more of a boogie woogie feeling on this.
Couldn't resist sharing the early Bird version as well... Love this recording
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^ Very cool. Funny how Cherokee seems to make "more sense" in its original form, rather like Les Feuilles Mortes. I had no idea Ray Noble was from The Smoke.
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no, Brighton - that’s where I’m from originally Originally Posted by Peter C
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So it turns out that for most of the heads listed so far (if not all) our fellow forum friend Chris Whiteman has a YouTube where he plays the head a speed and half speed. Which once again reminds me I would like to play like Chris when I grow up!
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Recorded in KC in 1941, Parker's 21 I think..... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Some lesser known Monk tunes that I'm a fan of with quite bebop-ish heads.
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Evonce was apparently slang for weed - who knew... Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Eronel was written by Sadique Hakim / Idrees Sulieman & named by the former for the love of his life,
he lost both the tune & the girl. (Lenore Eisner, married a mobster Eronel = Lenore backwards)
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My definition of "bop head" is a "an original done by the late 40's through early 50's bop crowd (especially, Bird, Dizzy, Bud, Monk)". For me, "essential" = "likely to be called". I like the idea of lists based on songs that teach good lessons or give you contrafacts, but for me there's more practical value in focusing on what I'll face in the wild (I'll admit that I don't know all of these as well as I need to).
Billie's Bounce
Straight No Chaser
Ornithology
Anthropology
Donna Lee
Confirmation
Groovin' High
Night in Tunisia
Scrapple from the Apple
Moose the Mooch.
Reg's point above about how nobody rehearses, so you have to either be able to sight read at a level to play these (+ a bunch of others you guys have listed) or memorize them strikes me as spot on. Regarding keys, there's value generally in working on tunes in more than one key. But for these tunes (and the others you guys have listed) specifically it's unlikely for them to be called in anything other than the one standard key (except maybe the blues heads). So it's probably a more efficient use of time to memorize more of these tunes rather than fewer of them in more keys.Last edited by John A.; 08-25-2023 at 03:00 PM.
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I have been on a Moose the Mooche kick the last month. Playing it everyday to memorize the tune. I also try to do what I call a mini chord melody with the tune. Much of it single line but chords where it can fit it. This actually works out to better fingering posibilities as these tunes follow the chords tones and easy to make connections. I tell you the best learning I have done on this tune is Hank Jones recording with the Great Jazz Trio. Hank lays out the tune beautifully.
Another thing I try and do is to play the tune on the bass and lower range of guitar and then move it up octave. Many bop heads with works fine. Especially Au Privave and Joy Spring. Frankly doing these tunes and keeping drilled in my head has done wonders for my playing much better than crazy exercises. I have completely changed my thinking to get out of the mode thought. Just look at the chords and the chord tones.
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