Adam Rogers - Night and Day

[BreckerFan]

So it seems like you’ve been into the Adam Rogers thing pretty deep for a while … any ways you see this stuff coming out in your playing?

Yeah he's a huge inspiration for me, definitely my favorite jazz guitarist. I've tried to incorporate some of his polytonal concepts, although there's still a wealth more I'd like to dig into. I like his control over the shape of his lines, that's always a work in progress for me. I think I've subconsciously stolen some of his rhythmic concepts lol. And I think his sound production has shaped how I want my playing to sound.

[Irishmuso]

My transcription of Rogers on Night and Day from his record Time and the Infinite. This one kicked my butt! I've been working on it for around 8 months and finally got a pretty clean take. There are a wealth of ideas for polytonal substitutions, and working on this has really opened my ears to some new possibilities.

Both the work and your playing are indeed impressive. As a much older - and envious - guitarist, I'd be interested to know what drew you to this style and this particular piece? it's quite a departure from what I personally would gravitate towards or anticipate an audience appreciating. Is this the style that you play when performing live?

[BreckerFan]

Both the work and your playing are indeed impressive. As a much older - and envious - guitarist, I'd be interested to know what drew you to this style and this particular piece? it's quite a departure from what I personally would gravitate towards or anticipate an audience appreciating. Is this the style that you play when performing live?

Thank you! I think that's fair, the chordless trio setting and Rogers' very chromatic stretching of the harmony makes his version somewhat abstract. It's funny to listen to this and compare it to Joe Henderson or Bill Evans, etc. But I really enjoy his outside sound and wanted to try and understand what he was doing. I think this style has informed my playing, although I enjoy playing with a piano player more than trio.

I would also say I've been fortunate enough to see Rogers live in a trio setting and it has a lot more impact in the room. The bass in this recording is mixed a little too low IMO.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah he's a huge inspiration for me, definitely my favorite jazz guitarist. I've tried to incorporate some of his polytonal concepts, although there's still a wealth more I'd like to dig into. I like his control over the shape of his lines, that's always a work in progress for me. I think I've subconsciously stolen some of his rhythmic concepts lol. And I think his sound production has shaped how I want my playing to sound.

Right on. Yeah the pick sound you have sounds a lot like him. Not sure if it’s rest stroke or what but it has that big punchy vibe.

But let me know what you get out of that polytonal stuff. That stuff is so interesting.

[BreckerFan]

Right on. Yeah the pick sound you have sounds a lot like him. Not sure if it’s rest stroke or what but it has that big punchy vibe.

But let me know what you get out of that polytonal stuff. That stuff is so interesting.

Thanks man, I'm not consciously using rest strokes if that's what I'm doing haha.

I should dig back into this one and analyze it, I'm can't remember what polytonal subs he's using here. In general his approach is chromatic alterations to diatonic subs, so like instead of playing an Em7 arpeggio over Cmaj7 he'll play the whole E melodic minor scale, which gives all sorts of cool tensions but still works because it has E and B. He just voice leads it all so well that it doesn't to me have the full crunch of changing and playing on a different key.

[pamosmusic]

Thanks man, I'm not consciously using rest strokes if that's what I'm doing haha.

I should dig back into this one and analyze it, I'm can't remember what polytonal subs he's using here. In general his approach is chromatic alterations to diatonic subs, so like instead of playing an Em7 arpeggio over Cmaj7 he'll play the whole E melodic minor scale, which gives all sorts of cool tensions but still works because it has E and B. He just voice leads it all so well that it doesn't to me have the full crunch of changing and playing on a different key.

Yeah not sure Adam uses rest strokes either … the sound just punches, which is awesome.

and yikes …. I’ve seen some little things of him talking about the polytonality, but never gotten deep enough to see what he actually does. That’s intense.

[BreckerFan]

Ok I was looking back at it and found a juicy one in measures 7-8 of chorus 4 haha

So you can diatonically sub the VI minor over I major (cf all the Benson method controversy haha). Adam does one slight alteration and plays A Dorian, which gives the lydian #11 over C Maj. The specific phrase is:

|B A B C D E G | F# E D

First note is a quarter note and then all 8ths.

Then he does a sub on the sub. Over a minor chord you can play a maj7 arpeggio which gives b5 b7 b9 11 over the minor. He plays a maj7#5 which gives the natural 9. Over the I chord it gives 9, #9/b3, 5, 7. So the phrase in total is

|B A B C D E G| F# E D Eb G B D E|
<---- A Dorian----------><-EbM7#5->

He uses this phrase a couple times in this solo so I think it's probably a precomposed cell that can be applied in a number of ways.

This kind of stuff is definitely a sound you have to be committed to but I really like it.

[pamosmusic]

Ok I was looking back at it and found a juicy one in measures 7-8 of chorus 4 haha

So you can diatonically sub the VI minor over I major (cf all the Benson method controversy haha). Adam does one slight alteration and plays A Dorian, which gives the lydian #11 over C Maj. The specific phrase is:

|B A B C D E G | F# E D

First note is a quarter note and then all 8ths.

Then he does a sub on the sub. Over a minor chord you can play a maj7 arpeggio which gives b5 b7 b9 11 over the minor. He plays a maj7#5 which gives the natural 9. Over the I chord it gives 9, #9/b3, 5, 7. So the phrase in total is

|B A B C D E G| F# E D Eb G B D E|
<---- A Dorian----------><-EbM7#5->

He uses this phrase a couple times in this solo so I think it's probably a precomposed cell that can be applied in a number of ways.

This kind of stuff is definitely a sound you have to be committed to but I really like it.

Dang. Yeah that’s super hip.

I really enjoy these sounds and I’ve heard him talk before about similar things with triads, like chaining together arpeggios (maybe over a C, you could play an E major where the B becomes the leading tone for a C major phrase). So those I can kind of execute (though I still don’t come to them really when I’m just playing) because they’re just these little stabs of polytonality.

But the scale stuff seems wild to me, because I feel like to get the effect you’d have to be able to get most of the scale over the harmony you’re trying to stretch. Like if E melodic minor is the means by which he’s stretching that C major harmony, you’d have to kind of get the B and E to make the guide tone thing work, and also the C# and D# to make the polytonality work. So it becomes kind of a sheets of sound thing and, friend … I just don’t have the chops for it.

Man is it cool though.

[BreckerFan]

The sheets of sound comparison makes sense, he's hugely into Coltrane. But more so the harmonic stuff, rhythmically he's often pretty locked into 8th notes. But that's part of what makes his vocabulary so unique, especially over uptempo stuff his lines are very scalar and directional. He sounds the most to me like Herbie or McCoy in that way, able to truly flow through changes.

Chops wise yeah he's on another level, there's a reason I had to practice this for like 8 months to get a clean take, and you better believe I was holding on for dear life lol.

[pamosmusic]

The sheets of sound comparison makes sense, he's hugely into Coltrane. But more so the harmonic stuff, rhythmically he's often pretty locked into 8th notes. But that's part of what makes his vocabulary so unique, especially over uptempo stuff his lines are very scalar and directional. He sounds the most to me like Herbie or McCoy in that way, able to truly flow through changes.

Ohhhhh yeah good point. All the scalar stuff is very pianistic. I only recently started transcribing pianists because that junk is so hard to play.