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Also, Is there anything to this Dick Grove stuff? The website seems dated, and there is precious little in way of review of their courses. I think I remember seeing it advertised in Guitar magazines when I was a teenager. I remember because I always thought it said "The Groove School" when I first saw it. LOL........Would have been a better name.
"Hi, I'm Dick Groove, Dean of the GROOVE SCHOOL"
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04-26-2013 12:04 AM
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A late thread weigh in here, good discussion. A lot of good information. Has anyone worked with Modus Novus? I haven't seen it mentioned yet. It's my bible for reading exercises, and small enough that I can carry it everywhere.
It's atonal solfege. The book is organized by intervallic family and has literally hundreds of exercises, small etudes, intervallic combinations, beautiful little pieces culled from classical literature and also written for reading exercise.
It's solfege so there are no guitar specific position cues, it's atonal so it avoids melodic cliches and genre specific phrasing, it's often ametric, with time and meter following the gravity of the phrase, and it's great for putting very different sounds into your ear.
Schoenberg and Bartok chamber music is also very good at the "out of the jazz box" aural and reading workout.
It's not Stella or Giant Steps. It does breathe life into my linear conception each time I work with it.
Just one option to shelve in your information overload.
David
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Thanks for posting and updating your progress. Sounds like improvement, very cool.
Until you get to that nirvana point of sight reading... your going to be able to sight read what you practice sight reading best.
Good luck with your studies
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My two cents on sight reading and reading standard notation in general. I've always been grateful for my classical guitar training as a young teen. And always been sorry I never formally studied piano, because I used to have great problems reading the bass clef. At least that later defect has been remedied as I've worked hard at keyboards over the past decade and especially using Sibelius notation software has helped a lot.
One suggestion for guitar players who want to improve their reading skills would simply be the following. First, get a copy of Segovia's Diatonic Major and Minor Scales. Playing scales now and again is a good warmup and for those who don't feel comfortable correlating notation and notes on the fret board it is a great way to master that problem.
Second, a relatively painless way to learn notation is to start with an edition of Sor's Etudes. One version is beginner, and the second version is more advanced. Carcassi's studies and classical guitar method (Carl Fischer) are also good. The point is that it is all about pattern recognition and correlating the music with the notation. On YT you can probably find someone playing through all these etudes. The editions I have are old. F. Sor Vorbereitende Ubungen, kleine Musikstucke und Etuden and 12 Leichte Etuden aus Op. 60 by Karl Scheit. Another option is to get a good classical method book like one by Christopher Parkening. My first method book was by Richard Pick. Using a metronome at a slow tempo helps with the rhythms. Last word about Sor studies. Andres Segovia's "Studies for the guitar by FSor" contains the more advanced Sor studies including the very beautiful and famous Estudio V.
The point is that these classical studies expose you to patterns that are 'guitaristic'. Learning to read random melodies is harder. Of course, if you studied piano, you are likely pretty good at reading.
For a studio guitarist working on film scores and such, I would think reading is a must. And it does help when you're reading through songs in the Fakebook. And if you enjoy composing or messing with notation software and creating jazz transcriptions, the software and notation reading skills are invaluable.
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I had to take a bit of a break due to Spring training. Played a lot but worked very little on the project. When I came back to the books this past Sunday I felt as though I had not only not regressed, but I actually felt the break has improved my reading. Is this normal?
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Pretty much normal, given that you have the basis of guitar playing down.
There is a folk tale saying I heard [Russian I think] ...which goes something like:
..."In summer you practice your skating and in winter you practice your swimming."
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I have this odd hangup with memorizing things I read. When I learn a song or a lick by ear I have almost simultaneously memorized it as well. I have run across a few things in this project that I really like. But when I try to memorize them I find myself not trusting my memory and trying to look back at the notation.....my memory lapse is almost always at the beginning of a measure when the melody implies a chord change. Idk....maybe I should just record it and then memorize it by ear......lol.
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I remember back in my bass days when bassist Lee Sklar picked up the Toto gig. They told him no charts on stage have to memorize the tunes and offer him charts. Sklar said charts are like heroin with me, once I get them I can never stop. So Lee took a songlist and stack of CDs and learned the whole show.
Originally Posted by mbself
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I know how to read music, but I lack the ability to play unfamiliar music at tempo on first glance. How do I develop this ability?
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Spend 30 minutes a day sight reading, perhaps the three Real Books, pick out the easiest to read tunes. Perhaps Leavitt's Modern Method books. Learn to look ahead and recognize phrases (sort of like reading words instead of letters).
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I just sight-read two tunes (Satin Doll and Solitude)
All I did play and sung the notes as I read them-didn't worry about rhythmic note values.
Is this a good approach?Last edited by Broyale; 07-13-2014 at 11:47 PM.
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Good start.
I really think it comes down to putting in the time. Those that can't sight read don't practice sight reading.
I spent about a year sight reading every day, I sight read everything I could get my hands on. I read through all three real books and a bunch of other stuff. I'd just put a book marker in the books and work my way through. I sight read better than most of the guitarists I know including guitrarists that play much much better than I do. Like I said, for me it was simple putting in a bunch of time. It does become enjoyable when you get to a certain level.
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Well, it's a start, but the flaw in it is that you already know how the tune goes. Sooner or later, you'll need to move on to songs you've never heard before - then you'll REALLY be sight reading. If you have Band in a Box with all the Real Book tunes loaded, you could pick a RB tune you don't know yet and mute the melody track. Try sight reading the first line. Then un-mute the melody track to check your work. Then re-mute and tackle the 2nd line, etc. (Disclaimer: I wish I had more time to take my own advice...)
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Reading is one of those things that has to be done everyday and for sightreading as much new material as possible. Read anything treble clef, at school they said run out of material take what you have and flip it upside down and read it. Like Fep said sightreading is a lot about training your eyes to "See" rhythms like you look at words and read them. Then you start recognizing pitch patterns, chords shapes, scale fragments, etc. All eye training.
Also in beginning separate reading rhythms from pitch, by putting the guitar down and practice reading and clapping the rhythm of the music first. After you have that down, pickup the guitar and read it with pitch. Also there are books of rhythms that are good for working on rhythm. The classic Louis Bellison book and MI's Gary Hess book.
Reading rhythms is the key. In music school they told us if you screw up reading a pitch most likely you'll just add to the harmony, but screw up reading a rhythm and you stand out like a sore thumb.Last edited by docbop; 07-14-2014 at 01:07 AM.
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Not being able to sight-read at camp was a huge embarrassment and the source of a great deal of tension between myself and our combo director. I know my leadsheet symbols fine, but when it came time to do the warmup exercises, I couldn't keep up.
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Tips: Yes. 30 minutes a day. Consistency is very important when trying to learn new tricks. Get a clarinet book. Not etudes, but pieces. When looking at the measure divide it in half - beats 1/2 and 3/4. This simplifies.
Dont start out trying to sight read. You might give up. I teach to separate reading into three basic categories. And practice them one at a time until you come up to speed with each one well enough you can put them all together.
1) the notes and symbols on the page.
2) reading the rhythms
3) finding the location of the notes on the guitar. This is the hardest.
For 1 you can take your clarinet book and drill calling out the notes. Take your time. Also look up every single symbol you don't fully understand. Don't write the letter names in the book!!!!
2 get a good rhythm book or a book of bebop solos. Those are generally rhythmic. Tap out basic rhythms.
3 you go back to the clarinet book. Slowly find the notes on the guitar. Do not play them in rhythm or time. Just locate the notes by playing them when you find them. Don't complicate it by thinking about fingering or positions. Just find the notes.
This is method really helps and works very well in teaching sight reading. Once you've gotten pretty good with 1,2 and 3 you can start putting them together. But generally when a student gets hung up or confused its because one of those three areas is not understood. And then the mind kind of turns off. You either don't know the name of the note, what the symbol is, or you can't understand the rhythm or you don't know immediately where the note is on the guitar.
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Check this out:
Sight Reading: Why and how much you need to work | Jazz Guitar Society
Some other random tips:
1. Separate the bars in two parts, like Henry said. This way you limit possible rhythmic figures and you start to recognize those that appear all the time (f.e. dotted quarter and an eighth note or eighth-quarter-eighth note). This makes rhythmic reading a lot easier.
2. Put on a metronome at a nice slow tempo and just play through the piece. No matter how many mistakes you make, don't stop or repeat a bar. FINISH the piece. Afterwards there is time to check back the parts where you failed.
3. Before you start playing check the piece for complicated parts, like ledger line sections, written out chords, interval skips, strange looking rhythms etc. Also check for any repetitions or key changes.
4. For the note location: Take a simple melody (like a nursery rhyme) and play it in the open position. This means open strings and fret 1,2 ,3 and 4. Then move the same melody to the first position (frets 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5). Now you have to play the former open strings fretted on the lower string. Then move on to the second position (frets 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6). Now you need to fret all the f's that were on the high e-string on the b string 6th fret, and so on. Always just use five adjacent frets. You have all the notes you would need in them. This way you really learn the notes on the fretboard and you start to recognize patterns. F.e. there are only three ways to play the first three notes of a major scale in five frets: 1. all on one string, 2. two on one string an one on the higher string, 3. one on the low string and two on the higher string.
Like all the others said: All you need to do to learn reading is reading.
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Start working through William Leavitt's "Modern Method For Guitar". It will teach you to read from beginner level, but it will also give a comprehensive study of chords, scales and arpeggios, and provide a rock solid basis to your technique and fretboard awareness.
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For clarity: I know how to READ music, the problem is I don't know how to READ unfamiliar music at performance tempo on first glance (sight-reading). Give me a few days with the melody and I will have it down cold, but to expect me to play something with weird syncopated rhythms at 120 bpm in 5/4 time withing 5 minutes of seeing it is asking for trouble.
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Some of the best "reading" practice for me was writing.
For me, there was something about having to figure out how to write down a certain tricky syncopation that made me remember it better the next time I saw it.
It also helped me realize, you do "see these things again." They're everywhere.
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One of the best ways to learn is to use notation software. If you play keyboards, you can enter notes via the USB port, learning to read and write by transcribing known melody lines and chordal harmonies off of the Real Book.
The other way is to buy a classical guitar methodology book, like those written by Christopher Parkening.
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Carol Kaye offers a couple tips on sight reading that have helped me.
First, if the chart is yours, use a pencil to darken / highlight the bar lines at the beginning and ending of sections. This is especially helpful for tunes with long 1st and 2nd endings---your eyes need to know where to go because you don't have time to think about it.
Second, and this sounds weird but she swears it works and she did a lot of sight reading in the studio: when you need to look from the chart to your hand / instrument, mentally circle the spot you're at on the chart so that when you look back at it, your eyes will know where to go. (Again, that may sound odd but she swears it works and that other players who sightread professionally do the same thing.)
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That's the point of my drills. YOu don Originally Posted by Broyale
t know how to sight read music. You know about reading music but it's too slow to be effective. That means you're falling down on one or all three of the basic areas. If you're slow on recognizing the names of the notes - this might surprise you. Pick up a book and just drill calling out the notes, - B, Bb, A, D, Eb, etc. If you hesitate AT ALL = not good. Tap out the rhythms. This is the easiest generally. Or the most fun. Then locate the notes without playing or thinking about the rhythms. Do them all until you can do them without hesitations, or far, far less.
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Also don't play melodies YOU ALREADY KNOW. That's almost like cheating.
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I need to do more of this. I know I do. I know I do. I probably should do this away from the guitar---stick a piece of sheet music in a book that I take to the park to read, take out the sheet music and just read off the notes, then go back to the book, then try another section of music later.... Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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