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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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04-14-2018 01:46 PM
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^^^
Rockstar is a blues to me.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
The theme in the chorus is a sharp contrast to the rest of the song.
The chorus starts with- "Cocaine on the table..."
He's talking to a friend.
"Dude your girlfriend is a groupie...
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
Except.. this kind of rap is good in my book:
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
No leaders, no genres.
It's the new music business.
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He wrote good music once upon a time. It'd be nice if he showed the young'uns how it's done by pumping out some vibrant new stuff, instead of touring on 40-year-old hits. When's the last time he really moved the needle on songwriting? The mid-70s?
Love his old music, don't care for his old attitude.
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A bad Elton John/Bernie Taupin song sung by a young singer would probably be better than what's out there now in pop.
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Different era when developing songwriters had support from record companies and publishers. Elton and his peers didn't have to scrub toilets and then find the time to work on their craft.
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I've been Feeling Whitney lately;
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I think the collaboration with Leon Russell (2010's "The Union") was very good.
Here's "Hey, Ahab," an Elton John / Bernie Taupin tune.
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
No, he had some big hits in the 80's and 90's too.
Most composers hit a wall at some point, even when its "adult" music like classical or jazz. And when the music you write is targeted to the young (like almost all pop and especially rock), it probably gets even more difficult to identify with, when you're not so young anymore...
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
Whatever it is, it's been decades since a new song of his moved me to plunk down ducats.
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I thought there were some excellent numbers on his noughties albums, "Songs from the West Coast" and "Captain and the Kid". Sure, Elton's voice isn't as flexible as it once was but when he puts in an effort, the songwriting and playing skills are still there.
It's pretty hard for any performer to avoid their back catalogue (Bowie tried for a period and soon succumbed). Elton strikes me as someone with very catholic music tastes and a voracious appetite for discovering new music and artists. So rather than a case of "get off my lawn", I interpret his comments as more an indication of a deeper malaise in the industry.
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A few people ----not calling anyone out; this is a more general point----have suggested that Elton wrote some good songs way back when but hasn't been so hot lately, so who does he think he is talking about what songwriters today should be doing.
I call this the "Lately" perspective. In short, you haven't done anything lately so who cares what you think?
I prefer the "Ever" perspective. If you've ever done something great---such as write a great song, or more especially, an album's worth of great songs---I think you know a lot more about songwriting than everyone who is more "with it" now but who hasn't done anything great himself (or herself). Like an old golfer who won major championships in his day: he can't play like that anymore but he knows the game better than any amateur watching it, and better than most young pros playing it. Writing music / songs is a skill; being young is happenstance.
I don't think Elton is always right. (I don't think anyone is always right.) But I think he has earned the right to speak as someone who knows what it is like to write a great song and make a great record. He also knows what it is like to do lasting work; he's done a lot of it. Those who have done neither but dismiss him as 'old man yelling at cloud' sound strange to me.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I'm not a huge fan of modern music, but even less am I a fan of any argument from authority. Groundbreaking four decades ago doesn't mean brilliant today.
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Pop is headed in the right direction with Post Malone, Lil Dicky and Cardi B. Malone is the one who can change things as far as more conventional songwriting. Some people say they're going to learn guitar after hearing 'Feeling Whitney'.
Elton John is a great singer. He's entitled to some old man rants and so is Quincy Jones.
Pop is weird. It shouldn't be formulaic.
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Yep, when it comes to hip hop there is no shortage of inspiring guitar work. Lil Dicky, Lil Wayne, which one? Dont matter, they all can be guitar gods.
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I think Elton is still writing some great tunes.
Post Malone? Not for me.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Awesome - my hero! Move over Wes and George. Thanks so much for that clip!
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
For the new blood Post Malone is up and coming. I mean Russel Malone was good no doubt about it, but Post Malone is whats up!
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Genre haters...
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Genre is just the French word for style.
I didn't see style or skill in that guitar playing. And no "hate" necessary. (the most overused word in America).
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
You see this as an argument from authority ("I'm the boss and I say so.") I see it as a matter of competence. Elton John is actually a very good songwriter. He knows how to do that. I don't expect the judgment of people who haven't written a bunch of good songs to be as good as that as someone who has. (Judgment about songwriting.)
Competent people have their limitations, of course, but so does everyone else. Given that we are ALL limited, there's a prima facie case to make for the heuristic of giving more weight to the judgments of competent people than those who are incompetent or whose competence is unknown. This is why serious music students want to study with great teachers. It's possible that some unknown player is great and a great teacher too, but the odds are long against that. (And if the person is truly a great player and teacher, word will get around. And that word will matter to the extent that those spreading it are seen as competent.)
Vintage fuzz on "space" transistors
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