Chord melody problem

[lawson-stone]

For fun here's Erol Garner himself playing his own tune. I guess he murders it too.

[ragman1]

in my view.

To which view you are fully entitled, Lawson :-)

[lawson-stone]

To which view you are fully entitled, Lawson :-)

That the tune is played by the giants of jazz in a number of ways that go far beyond the murder you accused Yelin of is not a "view" but a fact. Your words against Yelin and his playing of the song were unjust and out of line with the way innumerable jazz players have worked with the song. I'm listening to Oscar Peterson right now, and if I didn't actually know the tune well, I would not be able to separate it from his incredible embellishments and re-harmonizations. But knowing the tune as well as I do, I celebrate his "murder" of it.
He's not murdering it, but as the kids say, he's "killin' it"

[mr. beaumont]

Misty's a lovely melody, but it's also a LONG ASS tune. So you gotta figure out what you're going to do with it in a solo environment...if you play the melody straight through, improvise once through the form, play the melody out at a slow ballad tempo, the tune is like 45 minutes long.

Great ballads for truly playing SLOW are short forms like Blue in Green or Peace.

[AllanAllen]

It's an improvisation on the changes to the tune incorporating some phrases from the melody. Remember, as a jazz player, you will need to play the tune, you will also need to improvise, and as a solo guitarist, that means learning to improvise over a tune in the chord-melody style. Yelin is doing that here and I think it's quite wonderful. Listen to Joe Pass' treatment of the tune on Virtuoso 2 (I think). Play with his treatment of it, which is from his book on chord-solo performances of standards. Yelin is playing strongly in this tradition. Barney Kessel also was a player that maybe some here would accuse of playing "too many chords" but he could harmonize a long, complex melodic line chordally on the guitar just like a pianist would. He does it so fluidly we almost don't realize what an accomplishment it is. Or Wes Montgomery, who would often play a whole chorus of a solo in block-chords.
This is a core skill of the jazz guitarist, especially and particularly those who aspire to be solo performers.

Yeah, I'm not speaking so much to all the chords of it. That's a style choice. But, I didn't even hear the first three notes of the melody. I heard him quote Four clear as day, but not Misty.

If someone put on Ornithology and said it was Charlie Parker playing How High The Moon, I would have the same comment. I don't hear Misty here, at the start, to give me reference.

I put on the Joe Pass version and yeah, he's got the three notes that tell me this is misty. Same with the Erroll Garner clip you posted.

[ragman1]

I did it this way. I like it. If others don't, too bad! It's actually quite fast all things considering. The tune's at the end to save space.

Sorry, Yka59 , it's not a chord melody nor is it After You've Gone. We better get back to that one later. That one I DO play as a happy swing number!

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, I'm not speaking so much to all the chords of it. That's a style choice. But, I didn't even hear the first three notes of the melody. I heard him quote Four clear as day, but not Misty.

If someone put on Ornithology and said it was Charlie Parker playing How High The Moon, I would have the same comment. I don't hear Misty here, at the start, to give me reference.

I put on the Joe Pass version and yeah, he's got the three notes that tell me this is misty. Same with the Erroll Garner clip you posted.

Hmm … I mean again this is not my vibe, but I would clock this as Misty immediately. He does play the “helpless as a kitten” and “hat from my glove” parts verbatim.

Perhaps it’s worth referencing the most famous recording of Body and Soul ever cut in wax?

cursory reference to the melody in the first eight but only cursory and only there.

[lawson-stone]

Yeah, I'm not speaking so much to all the chords of it. That's a style choice. But, I didn't even hear the first three notes of the melody. I heard him quote Four clear as day, but not Misty.

If someone put on Ornithology and said it was Charlie Parker playing How High The Moon, I would have the same comment. I don't hear Misty here, at the start, to give me reference.

I put on the Joe Pass version and yeah, he's got the three notes that tell me this is misty. Same with the Erroll Garner clip you posted.

This is the last time I'm going to say this. It's and IMPROVISATION ON THE CHANGES OF MISTY. It doesn't have to play ANY of the melody. Improvisation is grounded in the changes and may or may not incorporate ideas from the melody. When the melody is so drop-dead familiar and played-into-the-ground as Misty, many players even doing the melody will embellish it almost beyond recognition. The performer will say it's "Misty" because that's the tune they are thinking of in their mind, that's the changes they are using, and likely they are even hoping to bear tribute to the song with some quotations.

[AllanAllen]

This is the last time I'm going to say this. It's and IMPROVISATION ON THE CHANGES OF MISTY. It doesn't have to play ANY of the melody. Improvisation is grounded in the changes and may or may not incorporate ideas from the melody. When the melody is so drop-dead familiar and played-into-the-ground as Misty, many players even doing the melody will embellish it almost beyond recognition. The performer will say it's "Misty" because that's the tune they are thinking of in their mind, that's the changes they are using, and likely they are even hoping to bear tribute to the song with some quotations.

Do you have kids? You know when you give you kid an apple and half way though they're like "I see a brown spot I don't want this anymore" and you say "you can still eat the apple, it's still good." I'm the kid with the spotted apple in this situation. I am aware of that.

Anyway, this has gone on too long and I shouldn't be talking negatively about the choices of someone who can clearly play circles around me.

[Mick-7]

Incidentally, I take it this is designed to be played with a pick. But a lot of chord melody players use their fingers. Playing 5-note chords isn't a very good idea.

The full 6-string Bb69 can be strummed with your thumb but those 5-string ones are a bit much. There'll be an awful lot of strumming sounds going on!

Hear those strumming sounds in the distance? They're getting louder and louder! Hide your guitar, Robert Yelin is coming!!

You can see by the Amazon reviews that close to half of the people who bought this book agree with ragman:

Reviews 1 - Amazon.com

Reviews 2 - Amazon.com

[ragman1]

Ah, ha. Well, there we are. I hope Yka59 takes heed, which I'm sure he will. I only wish I could recommend him a really good book instead but I'm not really up on the subject.

Personally, I think I'd take a trip to a good music store and see which books appealed to me. There are always quite a few if you get the right place.

[lawson-stone]

Do you have kids? You know when you give you kid an apple and half way though they're like "I see a brown spot I don't want this anymore" and you say "you can still eat the apple, it's still good." I'm the kid with the spotted apple in this situation. I am aware of that.

Anyway, this has gone on too long and I shouldn't be talking negatively about the choices of someone who can clearly play circles around me.

I have raised 3 children who, inspite of having me as their dad, have grown into fine adults, married very well, and now i have 8 grandchildren! So you have definitely inspired my empathy!
You can and should question anything you want. I have a gruff side that sometimes responds a little sharply to things I think are obvious, like the nature and history of improvisation. So you just have to take it with a grain of salt. I'm just a middling player like most others here, and you're working hard to grow your playing and that's encouraging to me.
My concern was more with ragman's dismissal of a very fine, reputable player who performed a very nice improvisation inspired by the changes and melodic ideas of "Misty." But rags and I love to spar, and so don't take that too seriously!

[bako]

For the record (as in vinyl) on what became one of the most famous jazz recordings of all time, Coleman H. failed to render the melody clearly. Came out ok despite in my opinion.

[AllanAllen]

I think Coleman Hawkins established it quite nicely and then moved to improv quickly since a side is only a few minutes. I don't need to hear all of the head perfectly as the composer intended, but hearing some of it helps.

[Mick-7]

For the record (as in vinyl) on what became one of the most famous jazz recordings of all time, Coleman H. failed to render the melody clearly. Came out ok despite in my opinion.

'Fox Trot" - that's funny. "Don't let anyone tell you you can't dance to this music, you can! So go ahead and buy the record!"

[mr. beaumont]

For the record (as in vinyl) on what became one of the most famous jazz recordings of all time, Coleman H. failed to render the melody clearly. Came out ok despite in my opinion.

Even at the brighter tempo Hawk took it at, it's still a long tune...2 choruses, 3 minutes. You throw in two heads, maybe a piano solo...that's a damn long foxtrot.

Hawk cut to the chase and got to the jazz

[jameslovestal]

But it's a lovely tune. I don't think he has any feeling for it, he's just playing it as a swing thing.

I can understand a version that put a little bit of gentle swing on it, that would probably work, but this is too far removed from the real feeling of the tune. Not so much misty as fog with strong winds :-)

It's funny how personal preference here is often taken as laying down the law. It's not, it's just a preference, there's nothing to argue about or defend, etc. I prefer Misty as a ballad, obviously others don't mind it with a bit of bounce. That's okay, no problem. Each to their own, I suppose.

There's also a version of Misty by Joscho Stephan on YouTube. I say nothing :-)

Wasn't it you that stated: I don't think he's very good. This is Misty? Poor man's murdering it.

That doesn't sound like just a personal preference.

[ragman1]

Wasn't it you that stated: I don't think he's very good. This is Misty? Poor man's murdering it.

That doesn't sound like just a personal preference.

All right, personal view. I don't think he's very good. And I think he murdered a really nice ballad. Take it or leave it. If you don't agree you don't agree, that's fine. Go and buy all his records :-)

[pamosmusic]

All right, personal view. I don't think he's very good. And I think he murdered a really nice ballad.

Ragman, is this a good time to remind you that you did post your own take for contrast, so this opinion will be taken for precisely what it is?

[pauln]

And I think he murdered a really nice ballad.

Didn't appeal to me, sounded like a goofy caricature of Misty.

The wavering jumpy jerky pace sounded like struggle with physical technique. The reharmonization density felt inappropriate for the introspective mood of the tune. My overall sense was of taking too many liberties with a tune... one or two liberties may be attempted nicely, but this sounded to me like an overloaded tune.

[rpjazzguitar]

Hi. I'm a total beginner for jazz and I can't read music. I use tabs and I'm looking at some good books for standards but the one's I found have a chord for every note? Can anybody tell me what's the idea with this and how are you supposed to read/play this? For me a normal chord melody is a chord a few notes a chord and so on, but... Thanks for your help in advance. Yka

First off, it's not beginner-to-jazz material. Most chord melodies I hear are easier than the one you posted.

If you're going to do it, it's going to be laborious, practicing a few beats, getting that much down and moving on. The portion I looked at was all playable and the tab was consistent with the standard notation.

The "idea" is that it's possible and the arranger found some value in it, either from how it sounds or its value as an exercise, or something.

Every player has to decide how to spend their time. The value I see in a chord melody like this is to recognize that there is harmony in every note and to learn various ways it can be done. You learn chords, you learn how to move smoothly from one chord to the next, and you learn tunes. You also may contribute to your version of something every guitar player has: a shelf of books that weren't as useful as the player hoped.

[Yka59]

First off, it's not beginner-to-jazz material. Most chord melodies I hear are easier than the one you posted.

If you're going to do it, it's going to be laborious, practicing a few beats, getting that much down and moving on. The portion I looked at was all playable and the tab was consistent with the standard notation.

The "idea" is that it's possible and the arranger found some value in it, either from how it sounds or its value as an exercise, or something.

Every player has to decide how to spend their time. The value I see in a chord melody like this is to recognize that there is harmony in every note and to learn various ways it can be done. You learn chords, you learn how to move smoothly from one chord to the next, and you learn tunes. You also may contribute to your version of something every guitar player has: a shelf of books that weren't as useful as the player hoped.

Thank you. I'll try to find something easier to start with. I got totally lost in the previous conversations, maybe it wasn't even ment for my question?

[Bobby Timmons]

Why does everyone want a book? If you're a beginner, don't start with those squirrely advanced arrangements. Simply use a youtube video with tab that's suitable for a beginner.

[ragman1]

Thank you. I'll try to find something easier to start with.

Yes, it would be better. You really need to start with the absolute basics. Chord melody isn't easy and understanding the way chords are used really needs very advanced knowledge.

[Bobby Timmons]

Here's the author of that arrangement. I don't think he's very good. This is Misty? Poor man's murdering it.

My opinion about the debate about this rendition: In general I like to hear the tune. And in general I think it's more appropriate to play to the spirit of the tune rather than turn it into something else - take a ballad and run amok with it in a faster tempo. If you're going to play a faster tempo, why not just use a tune that is already that tempo? It did kind of sound like a caricature of Misty. However, it's not forbidden to do these things and interpret a tune how you want. And it doesn't make him a bad player if he does, he's clearly not.