The "Must know chord grips" for jazz guitar players (that are NOT drop 2/3)

[Christian Miller]

Oh big ones for ‘basic B’

6 x 6 5 4 for Bbsus
6 x 6 5 3 for Bb9

Good to sub for a ii V

Also

6 x 6 4 4 for susb9
6 x 6 4 3 for 7b9

For minor


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[Christian Miller]

Great topics you've been posting recently, Jeff like this one and the internalising changes thread.

It helps to know some closed-position voicings. Using 'G' as a reference, a common and very comfortable one is xx5432 for Gmaj7 (I first came across that in George Harrison's "I'd Have You Anytime").

Drop 2 & 4 are less user friendly but they can be useful for solo playing and final cadences of a tune (Gmaj7 = 35x47x).

An often preferable substitute for middle string set drop 2s is to remove the 5th and double either the root or 3rd (Gmaj7 = x10,9,11,8 or x10,9,11,12x).

G9sus4 = 3x321x (or F/G to those of a denominational persuasion) is pretty essential. Extend this to G13b9 (3x3100) and we're starting to move into the area of open strings. Many of these are non-invertible and key specific and are particularly prevalent in Brazilian guitar-based music. Am9 = x05500 is a "must know chord grip" but how about the x42100 C#m7 that Jobim employs in "Triste"?

I kind of think of Brazilian Bossa chords as a separate but overlapping world of its own. A lot of this is shaped around what works best on an old school nylon string guitar of course. Open strings, lower positions (much is the time), sharp keys.

Of course those annoying horns insist on playing Triste in Bb so I can’t be like x06600


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[Christian Miller]

Hahahhaaha … I absolutely call it the denominator too.

for the record it’s the bass note … but denominator sounds way better.

It’s important we use long words so that people will think we are clever


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[Tal_175]

Oh big ones for ‘basic B’

6 x 6 5 4 for Bbsus
6 x 6 5 3 for Bb9

Good to sub for a ii V

Also

6 x 6 4 4 for susb9
6 x 6 4 3 for 7b9

For minor


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I hate to be the drop police but these are all drop 3, right?

[JazzPadd]

Lotsa great grips here, many of which I use, too. For some reason, I’ve developed a thing for chords with 2nds in them. For example, one grip I use is XX553X for Am7, EbMaj7, AbMaj7, BbMaj7. Moving the note on the 4th string up a half step is another I like that works for Bb7 and others. Minor 2nds, too, when reachable up the neck, e.g. XX10107X for Ab7, which I like to use on Freddie the Freeloader with the b7 on top, or by using open strings, such as XX403X for GMaj7, CMaj7 and Em7. All of these grips, of course, depend on the context.

[supersoul]

Lotsa great grips here, many of which I use, too. For some reason, I’ve developed a thing for chords with 2nds in them. For example, one grip I use is XX553X for Am7, EbMaj7, AbMaj7, BbMaj7. Moving the note on the 4th string up a half step is another I like that works for Bb7 and others. Minor 2nds, too, when reachable up the neck, e.g. XX10107X for Ab7, which I like to use on Freddie the Freeloader with the b7 on top, or by using open strings, such as XX403X for GMaj7, CMaj7 and Em7. All of these grips, of course, depend on the context.

The end turnaround for "Beatrice" is Gm7 GbM7 Fm7 GbM7
which works nicely as
3x331x
2x331x
1x331x
2x331x

[pamosmusic]

I hate to be the drop police but these are all drop 3, right?

Sort of typical rules for chord voicing are that the root can be replaced with the 9 (which usually results in some other chord … e.g. raising the root of the major 7 to a 9 leaves you with a minor 7), the third can be replaced with the 11 to make a sus chord, the fifth can be replaced with the 6 or an appropriate 11 for the chord type, and the 7 can be replaced with the 6.

So if you take those into account, really almost anything is some kind of drop. Theres that sheet of voicing types Ben Monder gives to people and I believe he claims it covers all playable four-note chords. Not sure that’s true, but I’d probably trust him. And his definition of playable will also be on the outer limit

[Tal_175]

Sort of typical rules for chord voicing are that the root can be replaced with the 9 (which usually results in some other chord … e.g. raising the root of the major 7 to a 9 leaves you with a minor 7), the third can be replaced with the 11 to make a sus chord, the fifth can be replaced with the 6 or an appropriate 11 for the chord type, and the 7 can be replaced with the 6.

What chord tones you include is a quite separate notion from drop voicings. You seem to be thinking of drop type chord as necessarily constituting of the chord tones 1 3 5 and 7 but all, for example, drop 2 construction means is that you take a closed voicing of voices of your choosing and drop the second highest note.

So, "the third can be replaced with 11" is not relevant here. If you want a drop 2 dom sus chord, build a closed voiced dominant sus 4 chord, now drop the second highest note to the bass, now you got yourself a drop 2 dominant sus 4 chord.

[pamosmusic]

What chord tones you include is a quite separate notion from drop voicings. You seem to be thinking of drop type chord as necessarily constituting of the chord tones 1 3 5 and 7 but all, for example, drop 2 construction means is that you take a closed voicing of voices of your choosing and drop the second highest note.

So, "the third can be replaced with 11" is not relevant here. If you want a drop 2 dom sus chord, build a closed voiced dominant sus 4 chord, now drop the second highest note to the bass, now you got yourself a drop 2 dominant sus 4 chord.

Definitely not a separate notion at all.

You say 1 4 5 7 … drop the 5 to the bottom, giving you 5 1 4 7

I say take your baseline dominant voicing … 1 3 5 7 … drop the 5 to the bottom giving you 5 1 3 7. Now replace whatever note you want to get the cool extensions. So I get 5 1 4 7.

It amounts to the same thing, honestly. You’ll end up with the same thing as me by a different route. Your way is simpler, with fewer steps. Mine is more flexible, allowing you to make whatever alteration you want to the chord in question. Both good.

It’s just a generally accepted formula for arranging. “If you want a 13 then ditch the 5” and that sort of thing.

[pamosmusic]

Think about the drop voicings from the perspective of someone arranging for a big band.

If I’m arranging chord pads or isolated backgrounds, your way is probably the move because I know what colors I want and have some flexibility w how I voice the chord.

If I’m arranging a soli or something then the voicing type is pretty restricted by what came before it so it would be quicker and easier to use my way … I already know I’m in drop two and can kind of alter some colors as the voiceleading allows.

[Tal_175]

Definitely not a separate notion at all.

You say 1 4 5 7 … drop the 5 to the bottom, giving you 5 1 4 7

I say take your baseline dominant voicing … 1 3 5 7 … drop the 5 to the bottom giving you 5 1 3 7. Now replace whatever note you want to get the cool extensions. So I get 5 1 4 7.

It amounts to the same thing, honestly. You’ll end up with the same thing as me by a different route. Your way is simpler, with fewer steps. Mine is more flexible, allowing you to make whatever alteration you want to the chord in question. Both good.

It’s just a generally accepted formula for arranging. “If you want a 13 then ditch the 5” and that sort of thing.

Sorry it seems like I misunderstood you earlier. Yes, I also just move voices with respect to a reference to get new voicings or create moving lines/voicings etc.

I also agree with you that most reasonable jazz oriented voicings on guitar end up being some sort of drop voicings. If you consider chords with the following properties: 4 note chords, no doubling, no closed voicings, no open strings, no string skips other than between the bass note and the rest, you'll mostly get drop 2 or drop 3 voicings. Three note voicings usually end up being drop reductions (drop minus one voice).

These are arbitrary properties but they are very common in jazz guitar. That's why I was interested in seeing what people were gonna come up with, but so far we are mostly getting drop 2 or drop 3 (with or without reductions)

[JazzPadd]

The end turnaround for "Beatrice" is Gm7 GbM7 Fm7 GbM7
which works nicely as
3x331x
2x331x
1x331x
2x331x

Indeed it does! Yes, that’s what I’m getting at. Same grip, different bass/chordal contexts.

Love that tune! I sometimes also use this on the turnaround for Beatrice:

(3)x331x
(2)x331x
(1)x111x
(2)x111x

IIRC, I think it was Chet Baker on that record with Bill Frisell, who alludes to an Fm7 over the GbM7 on Beatrice.

Or this, which preserves my beloved 2nds:

(3)x331x
(2)x331x
(1)x111x
(2)x134x

Thanks for reminding me. I’ll call Beatrice at the next jam session!

[dconeill]

Title says it all...add your favorites. ...

I'm curious about your motivation. What's wrong with Drop2 and Drop3 voicings? Is it that they're commonly used?

[Christian Miller]

I hate to be the drop police but these are all drop 3, right?

I suppose so!

7 1 2 3 —> 1 7 2 3

Fair enough


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[Christian Miller]

In practice I think it’s more about the methodology here. Many of the standard grips I learned not as part of some nerdy fretboard combinatorics but simply as a grip from another guitarist in one of those meatspace social interactions I used to have many years ago. Learning chords that way is a lot of fun.

Some of these will end up being drops of course.

I can’t speak for Jeff but what I had in mind is the drop 2 and 3 seventh and sixth chords. Anything will be a drop of a given pitch set.

The pitch set that parents the voicings I posted is notably non tertial. You can think about it that way, but I daresay most guitarists play those grips without having permutated them in that systematic way.

[AllanAllen]

Some of these will end up being drops of course.

I think what I had in mind is the drop 2 and 3 seventh and sixth chords. Anything will be a drop of a given pitch set.

I mean, it’s either a Johnny Smith open chord or some kind of drop right? There’s no other way on guitar.

[Christian Miller]

I mean, it’s either a Johnny Smith open chord or some kind of drop right? There’s no other way on guitar.

Sure, but hmmm, I suppose I don’t really know or care especially. You can systematise things in different ways. I don’t really see an end to the ways you can construct and permutate things. I suppose in practice it must be finite, but I would expect the total number of possibilities to be practically infinite as far as the human lifespan is concerned.

there’s a tendency in ‘advanced guitar material’ to list combinations spat out by a fairly simple set of rules. But Combinations themselves don’t have much to do with learning a musical language because some combinations are massively more
favoured above others. Jazz features cycle 4 vastly more than cycle 5 for example.

In actual music there are well trodden paths that make up the musical language. A student at the getting it together stage does well to focus on the things that come up most often and most entry level jazz instruction is based around this. (The big one for me is tunes though.) That’s not about maths so much as about repertoire.

It’s perhaps a little like chess. A chess master once told me that chess is about repertoire (competent chess is about learning the openings and not messing up the mid game. I am fwiw terrible at chess). The temptation might be to approach chess as combinatorics - which of course doesn’t work, because there’s too many combinations. You can’t study chess that way …

So once you’ve got the well trodden paths together a crunch through the less explored undergrowth might reveal some interesting options. Progressive musicians might be sick of the well trodden paths and be on look out for unusual combinations and so on. (You also get a lot better at permutating things in real time.)

However there are some fantastic players around who just play the stock voicings. I’d rather play jazz with them than someone with great fretboard command but no jazz skills, obviously. Fretboard harmony is an endless rabbit hole and it’s amazing what some people can do, but the jazz skills are for me non negotiable. Not that everyone is wanting to play jazz of course.

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[mr. beaumont]

I'm curious about your motivation. What's wrong with Drop2 and Drop3 voicings? Is it that they're commonly used?

We had a thread recently in which it was discussed that drop 2/3 are fine, but there are also some other common and very useful chord grips that aren't drop 2/3 (or are they?) that every guitar player should be familiar with.

For the sake of this thread, I was thinking of drop 2/3 specifically meaning 4 note chords, some iteration of 1357 or 1356

I always think there's nothing particularly magical about drop 2/3 other than that they are generally easy to grab...except for that one major shape...you know the one

So this was "what are the other practical and useful shapes?"

[rpjazzguitar]

I never heard of drop voicings until after I already learned all (or most) of the usual grips.

I've never found myself in a situation where I thought, "gee, I wish I knew if this is a drop voicing, or not, or which one".

I understand that it makes sense if you're arranging horns.

And, I understand that some players find it helpful to classify chords in this way.

My view is that, in many cases, you start building a chord (while playing a song) with the note you want on top. Then, if it's chord melody, you have a bass line to create, so you're interested in the note on the bottom.

Now you're faced with picking two interior notes, or just one, that work for the harmony. The harmony presents you with some options, many of which are unplayable. You have to pick notes you can reach. If you know the notes within the harmony and you know the fingerboard, you pick something.

If there's a bassist and/or pianist, you've got even more things to consider, often by omitting low notes, depending on the situation.

For the student, maybe organizing chords by drop-n makes sense. I learned chords mostly from chord melody, one tune at a time, which I still think is a good way to do it. I also learned Chuck Wayne's approach which starts with xx3433 and then adjusts a note or two here and there to get m7 m6 etc etc. Then up the neck to the next inversion, rinse and repeat. Why? Because when you're done you can get any note on top of any chord.

[PMB]

Of course those annoying horns insist on playing Triste in Bb so I can’t be like x06600

Jonathan Kreisberg put up a clip a year or two back where he was playing Triste in Bb with Peter Bernstein. I happen to know both guys pretty well so had to take them to task for crossing the floor.

[Christian Miller]

Jonathan Kreisberg put up a clip a year or two back where he was playing Triste in Bb with Peter Bernstein. I happen to know both guys pretty well so had to take them to task for crossing the floor.

Quite right, what were they thinking?


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[rpjazzguitar]

Here's the lesson.

Start with xx3433. G7. Now lower the B to Bb and it's Gm7. Lower the F to an E and it's Gm6. Likewise for G7#11, G7b13, Gmaj7, Gmajmin7, G6 and whatever other variations you want. Consider playing with a barre when possible. The idea is to leave your pinkie free to play a different top note.

Then, back to xx3433. Move each note to the next chord tone on the same string. You get xx5767. Now find all the variants.

Then up the neck to the next G7. xx9 10 8 10. Find all the variant.

There's one more which I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.

Now back to xx3343. G on top. Alter it to get the Ab on top. G7b9. Then put the A on top with your pinkie. G9. Move the pinkie and get a Bb on top. G7#9, but you may like it better if you raise the D to an Eb. G7#9b13.

The next inversion of the G7 has the B on top already. Move the pinkie to get a C. You can move it again for Db, but I prefer to get that one from the next inversion.

When you finish, you can get any note on top of whatever chord you want.

You can then do the same thing with the middle 4 strings and the lower 4.

You don't think about drop-n. You think about the chord you want and what note you want on top.

Then, take an easy tune and harmonize every note of the melody with one of these chords. Don't Blame Me is a good one to start with.

From there, I'd recommend watching Reg's videos and picking up on his chord patterns.

[Tal_175]

Well we all love triads. Alternating adjacent triads is a very good way of moving horizontally, especially when comping over chords that correspond to melodic minor modes.
For example, over BbMinMaj, Eb7#11, Aalt, Gmin7b5
Bbmin and Cmin
or
EbMaj and FMaj
work well. Since it's melodic minor any triad pair would work. You can also mix these triads.
eg.
Eb7 | Dmin (or Fmaj7)

x x x x | x
x x x x | x
13 11 10 9 | 6
12 9 10 9 | 5
13 11 10 9 | 7
x x x x x

Second inversion CMin BbMin FMaj EbMaj resolves to Dmin (or Fmaj7).
This idea generates all kinds of ways to move horizontally over melodic minor modes. You can add bass notes, or open the triads, move inversions of two pairs etc.

[JazzPadd]

Here's the lesson.

Start with xx3433. G7. Now lower the B to Bb and it's Gm7. Lower the F to an E and it's Gm6. Likewise for G7#11, G7b13, Gmaj7, Gmajmin7, G6 and whatever other variations you want. Consider playing with a barre when possible. The idea is to leave your pinkie free to play a different top note.

Then, back to xx3433. Move each note to the next chord tone on the same string. You get xx5767. Now find all the variants.

Then up the neck to the next G7. xx9 10 8 10. Find all the variant.

There's one more which I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.

Now back to xx3343. G on top. Alter it to get the Ab on top. G7b9. Then put the A on top with your pinkie. G9. Move the pinkie and get a Bb on top. G7#9, but you may like it better if you raise the D to an Eb. G7#9b13.

The next inversion of the G7 has the B on top already. Move the pinkie to get a C. You can move it again for Db, but I prefer to get that one from the next inversion.

When you finish, you can get any note on top of whatever chord you want.

You can then do the same thing with the middle 4 strings and the lower 4.

You don't think about drop-n. You think about the chord you want and what note you want on top.

Then, take an easy tune and harmonize every note of the melody with one of these chords. Don't Blame Me is a good one to start with.

From there, I'd recommend watching Reg's videos and picking up on his chord patterns.

Thank you, this is valuable.

I was at The Westchester Conservatory of Music when Chuck Wayne was teaching there, and always admired his playing. I think I still have his chord book around, should dig it out and have a read through.

[Christian Miller]

Tbf drops come from thinking about the melody of the chord and then dropping other notes

Quite a good exercise - keep the melody note the same and drop different notes in the chord


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