Difference between a major chord and major 7 chord?

[jumpnblues]

Yes, I'm a newb to music theory and jazz guitar all together. Could someone explain (in basic terms) the difference between a major chord and major 7th chord? What do each look like on a chord chart? Thank you.

[pingu]

hi
a C chord on a chord chart
is C
(notes C E G)

Cmajor 7th on a chord chart
is Cmaj7 or Ctriangle7
(notes CEGB)

hope that’s clear enough

[ThatRhythmMan]

And a C7 is C-E-G-B flat

And Cm7 is C-E flat-G-B flat

Too much?


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[garybaldy]

Yes, I'm a newb to music theory and jazz guitar all together. Could someone explain (in basic terms) the difference between a major chord and major 7th chord? What do each look like on a chord chart? Thank you.

Please don't get me wrong but I'm a little surprised that you are asking this question in that you have been around here for over 5 years?!

[Rob MacKillop]

There's no bad time to ask good questions.

A basic Major chord is referred to as a triad, as it has three notes, the Root, 3rd and 5th (R35)

Here's the C Major scale:

C D E F G A B

So, a C Major Chord (R35) has the notes C E G

A Major 7 chord adds one more note to the basic triad, the 7th note of the scale, which is the note B:

C E G B

Now, that's the theory, but practice can be slightly different (hey, it's jazz!).

Sometimes when asked to play a C Major chord, a jazz musician might automatically play a CMaj7 chord. That's because a straight C Major chord lacks what is referred to as a "colour tone". Colour tones are notes added to the basic triad from the scale, such as the B. They can make a chord sound more interesting, and help to define jazz in some way.

Here's another example. Imagine we don't add a B to the basic triad, but opt to add an A instead:

Basic Triad: C E G
New Mystery Chord: C E G A

If you look at the scale, you will see that A is the 6th note:

C D E F G A

So this mystery chord turns out to be C6, meaning we've added the 6th note of the scale to the basic triad.

If you have anymore good questions, just ask.

[jumpnblues]

Thank you all for your comments. And you're correct that I've been hanging around, on and off, for five or so years. But I had not begun studying jazz and theory, in earnest, until a couple years ago. Although my studying has been very spotty. That's why I'm still struggling with beginner stuff.

[Peter C]

When I started looking at jazz a few years ago, I noticed that the maj. I in a II V I is kind of by default a maj.7, so when they say: Dm, G7, C, the last one is invariably a Cmaj.7. Just to bear in mind.

[Christian Miller]

When I started looking at jazz a few years ago, I noticed that the maj. I in a II V I is kind of by default a maj.7, so when they say: Dm, G7, C, the last one is invariably a Cmaj.7. Just to bear in mind.

it’s not. Teaching materials are simplified. I do it in my own videos tbf. It’s a thing we do when saying ‘here’s how it works over a ii V I’

The C major 7 is a dissonant choice for a C melody note for example. If you go to jazz school they tell you not to do that in voicings apparently (although modern players seem to like the sound.)

Context is important. For general, in doubt play C6. The melody calls the shots if you are making an arrangement of course.

I would say it’s important to at least hear the difference between C6/stock major and Cmaj7. They are actually quite different sounds. I don’t think it’s good to automatically sub in maj7 for all major chords…

Crap charts (like the old real book which is highly inconsistent) don’t help, but carefully edited ones like the Sher New Real Books are quite fastidious about the difference.

I should do a vid…

For a beginner, I would suggest C6 unless the melody is on the seventh.

[QAman]

There's no bad time to ask good questions.

A basic Major chord is referred to as a triad, as it has three notes, the Root, 3rd and 5th (R35)

Here's the C Major scale:

C D E F G A B

So, a C Major Chord (R35) has the notes C E G

A Major 7 chord adds one more note to the basic triad, the 7th note of the scale, which is the note B:

C E G B

Now, that's the theory, but practice can be slightly different (hey, it's jazz!).

Sometimes when asked to play a C Major chord, a jazz musician might automatically play a CMaj7 chord. That's because a straight C Major chord lacks what is referred to as a "colour tone". Colour tones are notes added to the basic triad from the scale, such as the B. They can make a chord sound more interesting, and help to define jazz in some way.

Here's another example. Imagine we don't add a B to the basic triad, but opt to add an A instead:

Basic Triad: C E G
New Mystery Chord: C E G A

If you look at the scale, you will see that A is the 6th note:

C D E F G A

So this mystery chord turns out to be C6, meaning we've added the 6th note of the scale to the basic triad.

If you have anymore good questions, just ask.

Well said Rob.

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[Peter C]

You don't need to tell me about how different chord voicings sound, Christian, thanks. I make up tunes in my free time. Personally, I tend towards Cmaj9, C6/9 or, though rarely, C6 as the I. In the real world, this is what ones finds in tutorials, backing tracks etc, all landing on a good ol' maj.7.

The OP is a beginner by the looks of things

[jumpnblues]

Where do 9th, 11th, and 13th chords come from?

[Peter C]

Where do 9th, 11th, and 13th chords come from?

Not quite sure what you're asking, but try typing in here a C major, then add other (random) notes and the app will tell you what it is:
Guitar Chord Analyzer (Chord Namer/Identifier)

Or just take a look here: Chord Extensions Explained (9ths, 11th, 13ths, 6ths, & sus 4) | Jazz Tutorial

[garybaldy]

I get the impression that some think a maj7 chord is just a jazz chord

[pamosmusic]

You don't need to tell me about how different chord voicings sound, Christian, thanks. I make up tunes in my free time. Personally, I tend towards Cmaj9, C6/9 or, though rarely, C6 as the I. In the real world, this is what ones finds in tutorials, backing tracks etc, all landing on a good ol' maj.7.

The OP is a beginner by the looks of things

Erm … would the backing tracks be the real world? Thats a weird one.

Wouldn’t the real world be recordings that use Maj6 about as often or more often than they use maj7?

Especially in most of the classic jazz we listen to, the maj6 is more common because it avoids the dissonant min9 interval which arrangers didn’t like, or because the major 6 is more workable with mechanical voicings used in chord soloing and soli writing.

[Blkat]

Thank you all for your comments. And you're correct that I've been hanging around, on and off, for five or so years. But I had not begun studying jazz and theory, in earnest, until a couple years ago. Although my studying has been very spotty. That's why I'm still struggling with beginner stuff.

Don't give it a second thought. Most of us here are happy to help. All of us here struggled with beginner stuff at some point in our musical journey.

[Peter C]

You can't make this stuff up: The 10 Most Popular Jazz Chord Progressions
Real world, as in what you're likely to be practising as a noob. It's not a personal preference, it's just what I found in abundance when figuring out something I wanted to learn from jazz. As teachers, you want to facilitate the learning process, right?

[AllanAllen]

Where do 9th, 11th, and 13th chords come from?

The 9th, 11th and 13th are all embellished dominant chords.

On a piano they are voiced as followed for

C9: C E G Bb D
C11: C E G Bb D F
C13: C E G Bb D F A

Of course we can't play things this big on guitar which is where shells and drop chords come into play. If this is all greek to you, I highly suggest getting lessons, or at the least this book. It's 12 songs, each with 3 different chord progressions to play though them. It's really helped me get a start on comping, Reg and DJG here helped after that. I'm still not where I need to be, but I have a few tools.

Jamey Aebersold Jazz: Product Display

[pamosmusic]

You can't make this stuff up: The 10 Most Popular Jazz Chord Progressions
Real world, as in what you're likely to be practising as a noob. It's not a personal preference, it's just what I found in abundance when figuring out something I wanted to learn from jazz. As teachers, you want to facilitate the learning process, right?

For what it’s worth, in the article you linked, the ii-V-I musical examples contain four measures of “C” … one is C major7, two are C6, and one is C6/9.

So there’s that, I guess.

The rhythm changes one has a major 7 chord, but that’d be major 6 all day. The Cherokee example has a Bbmaj7 but the melody of that tune literally outlines a Bb6 over those two measures of the melody. And so one and so forth.

And yeah I do want to facilitate the learning process. And part of that process is teaching students to interpret chords in context. Preferably that context is actual music.

In the moment most folks are playing whatever they hear and I love a major 7 sound, but it’s worth drawing the conclusions about what’s what from the tunes themselves, dig?

[pamosmusic]

If this is all greek to you, I highly suggest getting lessons, or at the least this book. It's 12 songs, each with 3 different chord progressions to play though them. It's really helped me get a start on comping, Reg and DJG here helped after that. I'm still not where I need to be, but I have a few tools.

Jamey Aebersold Jazz: Product Display

Oh hey … I still get Christmas money from a handful of overly generous aunts, which means I buy a bunch of music books at the end of the year. Anyway … I got this one and you might like it.

Amazon.com

I only just got it but it’s pretty cool. Seems very practical.

[Jim Soloway]

For the most part, I treat a major chord and a major 7 chord as interchangable. Chords are generally defined by the 3rd, the 7th and in one instance by the 5th. Using the stacking 3rds method, a major chord has a major third and a major 7th, a minor chord has a minor third and a flatted 7th, a dominant chord (designated as a 7th chord as versus a maj7 chord) has a major 3rd and a flatted 7th, and the VII chord has a minor third, a flatted 7th, and a flatted 5th (known as both a half diminished or a m7b5)

[Jim Soloway]

The 9th, 11th and 13th are all embellished dominant chords.

On a piano they are voiced as followed for

C9: C E G Bb D
C11: C E G Bb D F
C13: C E G Bb D F A

Of course we can't play things this big on guitar which is where shells and drop chords come into play. If this is all greek to you, I highly suggest getting lessons, or at the least this book. It's 12 songs, each with 3 different chord progressions to play though them. It's really helped me get a start on comping, Reg and DJG here helped after that. I'm still not where I need to be, but I have a few tools.

Jamey Aebersold Jazz: Product Display

Major, minor and dominant chords all have 9, 11 and 13th extensions.

[Jonasulf]

Thanks for the insightful information about jazz chords! I'm still learning about music theory, and this is really helpful. I'll be sure to check out the book you recommended.

[Christian Miller]

Erm … would the backing tracks be the real world? Thats a weird one.

Wouldn’t the real world be recordings that use Maj6 about as often or more often than they use maj7?

Especially in most of the classic jazz we listen to, the maj6 is more common because it avoids the dissonant min9 interval which arrangers didn’t like, or because the major 6 is more workable with mechanical voicings used in chord soloing and soli writing.

Yes, this.

it does depend on style a bit tbf. Modern players like the minor ninths. But that’s expressing an aesthetic preference.

When Kreisberg for example talks about it in a seminar he makes it clear it’s a conscious choice, and on the whole he’s an absolute stickler like all those New York guys on the changes of the songs.

for myself I spent a long time playing major 7s without thinking or really hearing them. So it wasn’t like I was even expressing a preference or being aware in my chord choice
beyond ‘that’ll do’.

It’s because jazz harmony is taught as stacks of sevenths from day one with guide tones and extensions and so on. This is a simplified way of teaching it. Anyway this is all Jordan’s wheelhouse. The 3/7 guide tone thing is very simplified too. It’s true sometimes, but if you look carefully melodies aren’t always using these notes.

There is such a thing in jazz tunes as a perfect authentic cadence where the melody and bass both resolve to the 1 and it most often occurs in the end of the second and last A section, for example. Even in bop heads !

You know, Dm9 G13 C, really common in tunes. That sort of thing. (Melody goes E-E-C.)

It has a different functional role than the classic backcycling progression where the 3/7 is the classic contrapuntal choice since y’know, people had white curly wigs on. (Of course we aren’t limited to this stuff and can do all sorts of voice leading if we want.)

(notice Stephen Sondheim didn’t count Abmaj7 as a tonic chord in his analysis of ATTYA for example posted elsewhere. The authentic cadence to Ab in the melody occurs only at the very end.)

I could ramble on, but the best thing for me has always been to look at how chords and melodies interact in songs and pay close attention.

You don’t have to reflect this in your soloing, but it’s good to know and - more importantly here - this stuff imo. For comping I like to keep it open for the soloist.

otoh I don’t think it’s a problem to teach beginners 6th as the basic colour and introduce maj7 as something a little more specific later on. Barry Harris of course taught sixths as the basis.

[Christian Miller]

You can't make this stuff up: The 10 Most Popular Jazz Chord Progressions
Real world, as in what you're likely to be practising as a noob. It's not a personal preference, it's just what I found in abundance when figuring out something I wanted to learn from jazz. As teachers, you want to facilitate the learning process, right?

As a teacher how I organise the info to teach is part of my job. Not everyone makes the same choices. Syllabuses and systems vary. (I wouldn't be giving much explanation to a beginner btw - I'd just teach them maj6 chords.)

Because of this, the internet can be a problematic source of info in isolation. There are different schools and approaches to jazz education, and there can be a lot of apparent contradictions. And of course, sometimes people just get things wrong. (We all do that.)

OTOH people learning stuff off the internet is not something I have any control over, I only have some measure of control over how I teach. I do sometimes find myself 'myth busting' a bit in lessons, there are a lot of factoids out there... (tbf Levine had a chapter dedicated to that haha.) I try not to spend too much time doing that though, and in general its not too much of a problem. My main goal is to get students to check out stuff themselves, and to emphasise the music itself as the source of info anyway.

(Occasionally, my students correct me on a point of detail because they properly checked it out from the recording for homework and I learned it wrong from the Real Book 20 years ago and never thought to check. This is both annoying and fantastic.)

In the long term we would hope students would gain an appreciation for the different sounds. For beginners it's mostly a matter of prioritisation. Some of this is also based on style of music. (And of course a lot of teachers simply teach the way they were themselves taught.)

[Christian Miller]

For what it’s worth, in the article you linked, the ii-V-I musical examples contain four measures of “C” … one is C major7, two are C6, and one is C6/9.

So there’s that, I guess.

I think some people are taught that Cmaj7 is the generic chord symbol for any major family chord? I get why one would do that.

The semiotics of chord symbols is a book in itself. What goes in a lead sheet as compared to an arrangement and so on.. bleh.

I prefer to use just 'C' for that purpose (and Cm for tonic minor, C7), but I don't think that's standard in fact, is it? (Although the Real Book often makes this call interestingly.)

I can see why people would take issue with that too. Defining the seventh in every chord suggest a rigidity about these chord colours quite antithetical to the way the bop, swing players played on them. See this business with the 'Fmaj7' on Blues for Alice as opposed to the 'F7' on a 'bebop blues' which in many cases is not expressed by the melody (Au Privave or Now's the Time being a good example.)

And then do you write what the piano player is doing or the implied harmony? (Or for that matter, which do you choose when the piano in 'Cool Blues' playing dominant chords while Bird plays clear major sevenths over the top?)

OTOH if I write 6 for basic major chords, then I'd have to write m6 for tonic minors and I don't always think the m6 sound is the right family for all tonic minors. It's another distinct colour. Sometimes it needs to be a m(add9) or something.

And then there's that triangle business. Is it a major 7 or a triad?

Will I have to read that dry ass book Reg keeps recommending?

The rhythm changes one has a major 7 chord, but that’d be major 6 all day..

No VI7 in bar one I notice. +5 bop points, Dirk.