Chord families

**rpjazzguitar** · 10-30-2023, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by dasein

Yeah, I tend to think of it as both a name and an intervallic arrangement. The name is really just a shorthand for communicating with other guitar players ("Drop 2" is a lot shorter to say than "1573"). But in my head, the more important thing is the makeup of intervals.

Relationship of bottom note to top note is most important, it's what makes the moment to moment counterpoint when playing chords. But a trick I learned from Joe Diorio is to use harmonized scales of chords as a shortcut to learn intervals within a scale as well. If you can harmonize drop 2s in a major scale all over the neck in root position, you automatically know how to play fifths, sevenths, and tenths in that scale. Any time you can connect bits of fretboard knowledge like that, it tends to stick better.

Four numbers strike me as easier than "drop 2 and 4, third inversion".

My approach to learning the intervals is to learn to read, so you know the fretboard cold. Then learn the notes in the chords you use in 12 keys. At that point, all the intervals, and pretty much everything else about chord construction, will be obvious.

As an aside, I don't recall ever needing to say anything to another guitarist which would have been facilitated by drop terminology. In thinking back, sometimes I've been in a situation where I wanted to communicate a chord sequence. Usually it's easiest to simply demonstrate it. But, what if I wanted to communicate certain voicings for, say, C^7 B7b13 Em9 A9. What would that sound like in drop terminology (irrespective of how you voiced the chords)? And, even if you could say it, you'd probably still have to demonstrate the position and fingerings.

**ragman1** · 10-30-2023, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

It doesn't matter to me. I wasn't taught about them, I don't think about chords in this way and try as I might, I can't see any value to knowing which are which, for guitar.

Precisely. You beat me to it. I was just working up to a similar total denunciation of the whole goddam... yes :-)

**dconeill** · 10-30-2023, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

Four numbers strike me as easier than "drop 2 and 4, third inversion".

...

I agree completely. I went down a rabbit hole a few months ago to investigate Drop-n processing, where "n" = 2, 3, 2&4, or 2&3. I concluded that Drop-n can most profitably be viewed as a way to list all the possible inversions of a chord easily without straying into combinatorics and permutations. (Which I did, of course.) To cut to the chase, using the Drop-n processes, plus what I called "classic" and "classic upside-down" inversion sets, I was able to list all 24 possible orders of pitches of a four-note chord (aka "inversions") without very much work. It's much easier and less error-prone than working out all the permutations using combinatorics. It's also very easy to extend the processes to 5-, 6-, and more-note chords, though I successfully resisted that temptation. The Drop-n processes are said to have started out as an arranger's tool, which make sense.

On the guitar, the attraction of the Drop-n voicings is that many of them lie conveniently on the fretboard and are relatively easy to play. Somebody not known to me in history must have had that in mind when they decided how to tune the guitar. The naming "Drop-n" doesn't help much by itself as a descriptor, since each Drop-n group contains 8 or 12 fingerings.

But there's nothing magical about Drop-n voicings. They're just a processing tool that leads to a useful result.

**Christian Miller** · 10-30-2023, 05:33 PM

I’m getting into drops more as a process than a voicing type. Take a note in a chord drop or raise it an octave, and so on.

**Reg** · 10-30-2023, 05:47 PM

Yea... all the drop etc... process of learning about chords and voicings.... is just for getting started. Learning mechanical tools to play chords and voicing where you create... a lead line, or at least a note and have a process for still implying the harmony with different styles of spaces.... like when... you can't really hear much and don't know what sounds you like and what different styles and instrumentation's require.

Eventually you ... move on and develop your style etc... and recognize what to use in different contexts.

Personally I learned more about drop voicing from arranging classed back in the 70's. And I could already play the guitar etc...

Another point... voicings or comping systems are designed so you don't need to stare at your guitar... eventually.

I'm just saying this for good general musical knowledge.... the OP already knows what he or she wants to hear.

**A. Kingstone** · 10-30-2023, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note

Rules for polite engagement:
Don't talk about religion
Don't talk about income
Don't talk about family... and don't even mention it

... oh brother!

Speaking of Sisters & Brothers - "You always play with your family first" - Barry Harris

**pauln** · 10-30-2023, 08:40 PM

In guitar world, "Drop 2 chords are built by dropping the second highest note of a four-way close chord to the bass"... this applied to the inversions generate types 1 through 4:
Type 1 derived from the 2nd inversion of a chord
Type 2 derived from the 3rd inversion of a chord
Type 3 derived from a root position chord
Type 4 derived from the 1st inversion of a chord
So,
- limited to 4 pitch chords
- the dropped pitch is not a "2" anything in guitar world - not a sus2, not a second scale degree, not a string number, not a finger number; it is just the arbitrary 2nd from the top highest pitch of your four pitches
- the types are assigned kind of awkwardly

In piano world, drop 2 means the right hand ring finger (2nd highest finger); the chord can be bigger than four pitches and can take any inversion or voicing. The choice of chord form is made so that the top of the chord is the melody line, but the way it's used is to play the melody line with the right pinky, lift the ring finger next to it to offset the melody line and free that ring finger to assist playing the melody along with the pinky, and play what the ring finger was doing with the left thumb an octave below.
Drops are used in piano to play lead sheets - the melody notes are given in the staff, the chord type is indicated above it, the chord is built top down from the melody line and whatever drop scheme is applied (all in one movement to the keys)... it is a quick way to make lead sheets sound more like music.

Drops on the guitar are "natural" in the sense that lots of chords you know are already doing it, but kind of unnatural in that doing it on purpose can be a bit tedious - without looking, what are the notes and order of Db maj7#11 drop2 type2? With only four pitches, it may not include the melody line, may not off set the melody, may not free an extra finger to assist in the melody... most of the mechanical motivation for drops on the piano is lost on the guitar.

**Christian Miller** · 10-31-2023, 05:20 AM

Isn’t as simple as letting go of the octave key to take the sax down?

It’s easy to see how drop nomenclature came from sax section playing. I understand sections back in the day could do mechanical block chord harmonisation of melody on the fly…. Charts weren’t always written out.

**docsteve** · 10-31-2023, 06:44 AM

No because the 2nd Alto would then play below the Tenor.

I have played Tenor in Big Bands but I never paid attention to the actual voicings - there was no full chart anyway.

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**pamosmusic** · 10-31-2023, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by docsteve

No because the 2nd Alto would then play below the Tenor.

I have played Tenor in Big Bands but I never paid attention to the actual voicings - there was no full chart anyway.

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The second alto doesn’t play the lower voice. The pitch is dropped and the saxes still play the pitches in their normal section range. So the alto 1 still plays whichever pitch is highest … Bari or Tenor 2 plays whichever is lowest.